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Which QB (Brady/Flacco) has the better weapons?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ALP, Jan 16, 2013.

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  1. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Brady:
    Ridley
    Woody
    Vereen

    Welker
    Lloyd
    Branch

    AHern
    Hooman

    Flacco:
    Rice
    Pierce
    Leach

    Boldin
    Smith
    Jones

    Pitta
    Dickson

    Let me know if i missed anyone significant...this is an interesting point that i just heard, i believe a VERY good case can be made that Flacco is working w/ the better arsenal since Brady wont have Gronk
     
  2. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    pats...ahern= both of their TEs plus some
     
  3. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's an arguable point...maybe the nod goes to the Ravens? But it is close. Fortunately it means very little unless you factor in who is the throwing the ball and who is calling the plays. I'll take TFB, JM and our receivers over JF, JC and their receivers. No disrespect to the Ravens but I think the choice is clear once that is factored in.
     
  4. NewFeep

    NewFeep On the Game Day Roster

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    Excellent analysis, and I heartily agree with your assessment!
     
  5. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would add that it is more about match-ups of these receivers against the guys who will be covering them in this game.
     
  6. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not counting salaries, and just looking at talent, here's how I'd rank them:

    RBs
    1. Rice (Bal)
    2. Ridley (NE)
    3. Pierce (Bal) - 532 rush yds, 4.9 avg
    4. Vereen (NE)
    5. Woodhead (NE)
    6. Leach (Bal)

    Pierce is very good and we'd love to have him. I think Vereen has the ability to be very explosive. Rice is the best RB in the group, by a sizeable margin, IMO.

    WRs
    1. Welker (NE)
    2. Smith (Bal) - man how nice would it be to have him opposite Welker!
    3. Lloyd (NE)
    4. Boldin (Bal)
    5. Jones (Bal)
    6. Branch (NE)

    Welker is the best WR of the group, by far. But Smith and Jones are the two most explosive. Boldin is still a very good receiver. On the whole, I'd take Baltimore's group here.

    TEs
    1. Hernandez (NE)
    2. Pitta (Bal)
    3. Dickson (Bal)
    4. Hoomanawanui (NE)

    Hernandez laps Pitta in a contest, but Pitta is solid. Hoo-man has been coming on of late, but I think Dickson is better.

    So here's how my various personnel groupings would look:

    2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE: Rice, Ridley, Welker, Smith, Hernandez (3 NE, 2 Bal)
    1 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE: Rice, Welker, Smith, Lloyd, Hernandez (4 NE, 1 Bal)
    1 RB, 2 WR, 2 TE: Rice, Welker, Smith, Hernandez, Pitta (3 NE, 2 Bal)
    2 RB, 1 WR, 2 TE: Rice, Ridley, Welker, Hernandez, Pitta (3 NE, 2 Bal)

    So I think the talent level is pretty close actually. Both O-lines are playing very well, but I think the key difference is the QBs. Brady is much better than Flacco. That doesn't mean that Brady will have a better game on Sunday, because it's totally possible he doesn't. Flacco has outplayed Brady recently in head-to-head matchups. But over the long run, obviously Brady is significantly better.
     
  7. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You have Pierce far too high against the Patriots running backs. He would be (if that) higher than only Brandon Bolden.
     
  8. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    Why do you say that? He had 532 rushing yards this year with a 4.9 average. That's really, really good. Vereen and Woodhead only averaged 4.0 yards per carry apiece. I know they're both more versatile in terms of receiving, and I think it's closer than the rushing yards alone would make it appear, but Pierce is good.
     
  9. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've watched plenty of Baltimore games. Woodhead and Vereen have a far greater skill-set than Pierce. His play suggests he's no threat in the passing game.
     
  10. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Smith might be the only receiver they have that could operate in our offense and obviously it can't be qualified one way or another (because if we could evaluate receivers in the NEP offense, we'd probably be hired by BB).

    That said, I would say that each team has weapons that work for their QBs and some weapons that would work for either team. For Example, Welker would be good to very good with Flacco, but with TB, he's great. Ray Rice would work equally well on both teams (and probably a bit better on ours because Flacco is no TB)

    So the question might be how would the player potential be effected by changing QBs?
     
  11. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd say that Flacco actually has the "better" receivers and running back, in that Boldin, Smith and even Jones are all big fast guys that can kill you (Bolding isn't fast any more, but he gets open on short to midrange), and Ray Rice can be a stud. But, on the other hand, I think Brady has the "better weapons for him." Brady has never been a great long ball thrower (although I guess Moss cured him of that malady for a few years); he's always excelled at the short passing game, and Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, even Lloyd, slowly but steadily and Vereen, and Branch sporadically now, all make things go. Ridley gets clutch yards even if he's no Ray Rice and he caught a nice pass the other day. OUr TEs are better than Baltimore's.

    As you think about it though, how much of everybody's success is tied to the QB they play with? If we had Boldin, Smith & Jones would they all have over 1,000 yards receiving? Maybe. If Welker played with Flacco would he have 1,000 yards receiving? I'd say not, but who knows?
     
  12. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    Brady has never been a great deep ball thrower, except for the only time he had a great deep ball receiver, and he slang the ball all over the field. Kind of hard to throw long when, aside from Moss, the other receivers he has played with are: Branch, Givens, Patten, Brown, Caldwell, Gaffney, Welker and Lloyd. These guys are either 5'10 or run 4.65 40s. The two deep balls he threw on Sunday were the two best throws of the weekend.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  13. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can't argue with you. As I was writing that Brady has never been a good deep ball thrower I remembered he was, temporarily, when he had Moss. So it goes both ways. Sometimes the QB makes the receiver and sometimes the receiver makes the QB.
     
  14. JMC00

    JMC00 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Woodhead has 700+ total yards (446 rec and 301 rushing) and 7 TD.
     
  15. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I like most of your rankings, but no way I would put Lloyd ahead of Boldin and its not even close. Boldin is a beast to cover. Lloyd is still making some mental errors out there and not getting in sync with Brady. There's no comparison of the two.
     
  16. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    I was going to agree with you, but then I saw Boldin had 64 catches for 921 yards and 4 TDs this season, while Lloyd had 75 catches for 911 yards and 4 TDs. Obviously, one plays with Brady and the other with Flacco, but they were pretty much the same player in terms of production.
     
  17. jumbo77

    jumbo77 Rookie

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    This game is going to be close. I don't know how the Pats are 9 point favorites.
     
  18. JJDChE

    JJDChE 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Yup, Boldin is solidly ahead of Lloyd. Boldin flies under the radar a bit, but he's going to finish his career in the top 25 all time in yds and receptions. He's had a good career.
     
  19. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like Lloyd, but I agree with you. Boldin doesn't immediately hit the deck when he catches the ball, either.
     
  20. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Honestly, im amazed by how many points we score now with what we have. Even before we had welker we consistently dinked and dunked and that is by far the hardest way to score. You don't see many teams put together 10+ drives often. That is alot of time to make a mistake and often the reason why bend but don't break defenses work. Give Brady anyone that can catch the ball and he will make it work, whether it is troy brown or moss. So if we were to put Brady in Baltimore's offense he would do just fine maybe even better with the deep threats there, but I doubt flacco could dink and dunk to the tune of 30 plus points on a consistent basis. At first glance our offense looks horrible in a physical sense. Lloyd runs a 4.6, welker is 5'8, branch runs 4.7-4.8 and is 5'9, and woodhead looks like a child slipped onto the field. I would be mad if i lost to child, and that is why jonathan joseph is still in denial but we do this to everyone.

    So if i remove my homer glasses and look at the offense and the not the qbs i would have to say Baltimore has more weapons. Look at it this way, there are times when branch sees significant snaps. You may argue that welker catches thousands of clutch passes for us but if Brady had bolden to work with i truly feel he could work something out close in production. Even now i still feel Brady is the most undervalued qb in the game and makes all the difference in the world.
     
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