Which players would trade up to 14 to get?

[Box_O_Rocks]

yeah, well.......I guess we just have a different definition of 'did just fine'

I'd be willing to bet that the pats spend big $$ on an OLB before the draft anyway.........its what they've done in the past (colvin, thomas) and suffice it to say, the position is in much worse shape now than prior to either of those signings

I shall wait with breathless anticipation for that signing, do you have a list of Free Agents to consider?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I shall wait with breathless anticipation for that signing, do you have a list of Free Agents to consider?

well......based on what they have been willing to spend in the past, anyone who is available is in their price range......which just makes it all that more important to have cassel's status resolved sooner rather than later.......a suggs or dansby could go a long way in this regard........I say take the heat off of drafting by need......go out and sign dansby, barton or andra davis, and sean jones....then have fun with the draft

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

well......based on what they have been willing to spend in the past, anyone who is available is in their price range......which just makes it all that more important to have cassel's status resolved sooner rather than later.......a suggs or dansby could go a long way in this regard........I say take the heat off of drafting by need......go out and sign dansby, barton or andra davis, and sean jones....then have fun with the draft

That's one approach, though looking ahead to the UFAs who need to be re-signed in 2010 has me wondering how much BB wants to spend on the Suggs and Dansbys when he's got some top talent to extend.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

That's one approach, though looking ahead to the UFAs who need to be re-signed in 2010 has me wondering how much BB wants to spend on the Suggs and Dansbys when he's got some top talent to extend.

correct, but by that time, vrabel, green, faulk, neal are all gone and the pats are over 60M under the cap.......not saying they should pull what the jets did last year, bu they can afford one high priced FA this year along with a couple of mid/lower mid priced ones.....filling the rest of the needs via the draft (OL,CB,DL) at the much lower priced rookie contract scale and get the OT that someone else here is so enamored with

I could see some spending to keep the balance going .... certain positions are pure draft (OL,DL) others have been FA's (OLB) ....... it works.....keep it going

 

[Deus Irae]

LINEBACKER
We have FOUR additions from last year's squad, not counting the Practice Squad players. Let's see what we have.

Thomas should move inside. If he doesn't then that means that Belichick thinks more of the current abilities of Bruschi and Guyton than we do. Guyton could be ready to start, with Bruschi as the backup.

Obviously, we could draft an OLB or an ILB for the future to take Redd's roster spot. But at 23 or in the 2nd, I wouldn't expect someone who would start this year. Even if they were better talents than Guyton, Crable and Woods, it will take time to learn the position. I would not be surprised to see no additions at linebacker.

OLB = Vrabel
OLB = Woods
OLB = Crable

ILB = Mayo
ILB = Thomas
ILB = Bruschi

LB = Guyton (he should get training camp time at all LB positions; and then able to fill in wherever needed)
LB = draftee/fa/Redd/Seau/Colvin
ST = Izzo is likely going to be on the team to play special teams (alternatives are Alexander and Redd)
===================================================

I expect that they'll draft a linebacker at some point, because they've got plenty of picks for it. I just don't see any likely scenario where they see someone at 14 that they trade up to get.

OFFENSIVE GUARD
We have a SEVERE need at guard.
Hochstein is a free agent.
Mankins and Neal are signed only through this season.
Neal has been often injured.
Yates is signed only through this season.

Yes, we also have a 2009 need at RT since Kaczur is in his contract year. However, we also have LeVoir and Callaghan. To project Kaczur as the guard to replace Neal in 2010 ignores the fact that Kaczur has no pro experience at guard, and he isn't signed for next year. There is no reason to worry about where Kaczur will fit in for the 2010 season. He is an adequate starter for 2009 (only posters disagree; Dante is fine with his play). And there is camp competition for his starting position.

Personally, if we need a RG, I think that we should draft a guard. Also, I would note that a guard is more valuable if he also plays center, and/or deep snaps. My choice, as it has been for a few weeks, is Unger as a first round pick. This presumes that we sign safeties and a corner in free agencies, which is almost a sure thing.

Because of his concussion/injury problems, you can't count on O'Callaghan until he proves his durablility. I also don't believe that I projected Kaczur at guard as any kind of certain move but, rather, as insurance in case of Neal's being unable to play. Again, it's rare that a good team has a chance to get a left tackle that's got the sort of top shelf potential that one can usually only get in the top 5-7 picks. That's why I wanted them to draft Clady last year, and it's why I'd want them to trade up to 14 this year. Making such a trade would not preclude the team from drafting a guard later in the draft. Also, I do have to point out that you saying you want to draft a guard because Kaczur has no NFL experience at the position makes no sense since the guard in question will also have no NFL experience at the position, and also that Kaczur's an RFA next season, so he can't go anywhere if the Patriots don't want him to. If the Patriots want him, he's here until at least after the 2010 season.

Despite the weeping and gnashing of teeth by many of the Patriots' faithful, this team really doesn't have a lot of holes on defense. Instead, it has a couple of holes and a couple of other positions where it's time to bring in new blood to learn under the old. Yes, the team currently needs at least one safety (I'm not currently considering Sanders or Harrison as being on the team), and yes the team will likely take a good long look at using another high pick on a cornerback. However, Hobbs is young, Meriweather is young, Mayo is young, the 3 D-linemen are in their primes, and AD and Vrabel still have gas in the tank. I'd look to Bruschi's position as a weakness that needs to be dealt with too, but that leaves only 2-3 positions that really need to be focused on for this season, and that's also assuming the team doesn't sign anyone in free agency.

That still leaves multiple picks to be spent on the offense, where the team can use some help at guard, receiver, tight end, and perhaps also a fullback and/or late round halfback.

 

[mgteich]

You do know that if there is a new CBA, both Hobbs and Kaczur will likely be UFA's and playing elsewhere?

THE DEFENSE
Let's discuss each of the defensive units. You seems to presume that we can simply keep whatever free agents we wish to keep.

You talk about how great the defnsive line is. Are you just presuming that we will extend Wilfork, Seymour and Green? Are you assuming a re-signing of Wright? Even assuming a franchise or extension of Wilfork (for 2009 and 2010), we still have needs at DE. It does take time to learn Belichick's defense.

I am one who does agree with you with regard to lesser need at linebacker. However, almost all here (including me) would be happy with a develpmental addition in the first three rounds.

Are you really fine with the safety situation? As of now, Spann is one of the two starters, and we have ZERO backup safeties.

Do you just assume that Wilhite and Wheatley will step up and contribute in 2009 and that we'll sign a 4th corner in free agency? Even if if all that happened, Hobbs will likely be gone after the season.

BOTTOM LINE - EIGHT NEEDS ON DEFENSE
Yes, there is a lot to see in free agency. However, we do have a few needs on defense.
1) backup defensive end to replace Wright (or re-sign Wright)
2) backup defensive end to replace Green or Seymour in 2010
3) a developmental linebacker (at either ILB or OLB)
4) a starting safety (FS or SS; Meriweather will play the other).
5) a backup free safety with special team skills (could be Spann)
6) a backup strong safety with special team skills
7) a corner to compete for starting positions in 2009 and 2010
8) a backup veteran corner for 2009
9) a backup NT

The problem in this team is NOT on offense. The offense was solid in 2008, even without Brady. For 2009, we need three re-signings or equal-talent replacements to be one of the best offenses in the league: Gaffney, Evans and Hochstein.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I really like Clint Sintim as I watched film on him last night. I remember looking at Chris Long last year and seeing this kid. I think he is going to rise at the combines and we should get him at 23 and not need to move up for some of these good LB (Currie, Brown, Maybin). No one is really talking about Orakpo...I was also watching some of his tape and WOW if this kid slid to 14 I would pull the trigger without a doubt. Thoughts on Orakpo??

Orakpo is a premier passrusher but I think the reason why there's not much talk about him here is that he's considered a 4-3 end rather than a 3-4 OLB for us. I don't know if he could convert, but just about any player would be considered a conversion project for the Pats defensive system.

I'm also curious about Maybin and Michael Johnson as possible OLB conversion projects. I don't know a lot about them yet but more info should come out as the Combine and draft approaches.

 

[Synovia]

Even if if all that happened, Hobbs will likely be gone after the season. .

Why?


Belichick seems to love him, and he seems to like Boston. Hes great on special teams. He seems like the exact type of player they'd keep.

 

[mgteich]

1) Why do you think Hobbs likes Boston?
2) Please name the last defensive back that the patriots decided/were able to keep, in a competitive bidding situation?
3) Just because Belichick appreciates a player doesn't mean that the patriots will pay more than other teams to retain the services of such a player.

In recent years, we have lost Milloy, Law, Samuel, Gay, Wilson and a few more. And who have we kept? ALL our corners and safeties are on their first contract, every one of them. Under Belichick, our secondaries have consisted of our own youngsters and very seasoned veterans from other teams. O-T-I-S where are you when we need you? He inherited Law and Milloy.

I have no complaints. The patriots have managed the cap as well as any team in the league. However, part of that management has been to rely on defesive backs in the their rookie contract and well-travel veterans. We'll see. I expect to see somewhere between 5 and 7 free agent defensive backs in camp.

Why?

Belichick seems to love him, and he seems to like Boston. Hes great on special teams. He seems like the exact type of player they'd keep.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

1) Why do you think Hobbs likes Boston?
2) Please name the last defensive back that the patriots decided/were able to keep, in a competitive bidding situation?
3) Just because Belichick appreciates a player doesn't mean that the patriots will pay more than other teams to retain the services of such a player.

In recent years, we have lost Milloy, Law, Samuel, Gay, Wilson and a few more. And who have we kept? ALL our corners and safeties are on their first contract, every one of them. Under Belichick, our secondaries have consisted of our own youngsters and very seasoned veterans from other teams. O-T-I-S where are you when we need you? He inherited Law and Milloy.

I have no complaints. The patriots have managed the cap as well as any team in the league. However, part of that management has been to rely on defesive backs in the their rookie contract and well-travel veterans. We'll see. I expect to see somewhere between 5 and 7 free agent defensive backs in camp.

I personally don't believe the corners matter..........as long as you've got decent safeties and a pass rush, the corners are just zone guys......

 

[AzPatsFan]

You do know that if there is a new CBA, both Hobbs and Kaczur will likely be UFA's and playing elsewhere?

THE DEFENSE
Let's discuss each of the defensive units. You seems to presume that we can simply keep whatever free agents we wish to keep.

You talk about how great the defensive line is. Are you just presuming that we will extend Wilfork, Seymour and Green? Are you assuming a re-signing of Wright? Even assuming a franchise or extension of Wilfork (for 2009 and 2010), we still have needs at DE. It does take time to learn Belichick's defense.

I am one who does agree with you with regard to lesser need at linebacker. However, almost all here (including me) would be happy with a developmental addition in the first three rounds.

Are you really fine with the safety situation? As of now, Spann is one of the two starters, and we have ZERO backup safeties.

Do you just assume that Wilhite and Wheatley will step up and contribute in 2009 and that we'll sign a 4th corner in free agency? Even if if all that happened, Hobbs will likely be gone after the season.

BOTTOM LINE - EIGHT NEEDS ON DEFENSE
Yes, there is a lot to see in free agency. However, we do have a few needs on defense.
1) backup defensive end to replace Wright (or re-sign Wright)
2) backup defensive end to replace Green or Seymour in 2010
3) a developmental linebacker (at either ILB or OLB)
4) a starting safety (FS or SS; Meriweather will play the other).
5) a backup free safety with special team skills (could be Spann)
6) a backup strong safety with special team skills
7) a corner to compete for starting positions in 2009 and 2010
8) a backup veteran corner for 2009
9) a backup NT

The problem in this team is NOT on offense. The offense was solid in 2008, even without Brady. For 2009, we need three re-signings or equal-talent replacements to be one of the best offenses in the league: Gaffney, Evans and Hochstein.

Mgtiech,

Reality is what you described on Offense. it can be almost neglected for two or three seasons. The 2007 rebuilding and the 2008 augmentation, is still fresh. The continued rebuilding of the Defense is where the concentration will be.

But some how you think if a guys contract is up in two years we need to find a replacement now, urgently. That is not reality.

I see the team adding an ILB and and DE-->OLB candidate as well as a DB or two, along with an OL in the draft. That adds up to five picks. We are through Round Three. They have 11, picks. What do they do with the other 6 picks? Throw them away? So add a backup NT. Still counting.

BTW the Pats average finding a 1 UDFA per year in each draft. Recent years exceed that average. That makes 7. Lets say a couple draftees are cut. Name me 8 or 9 positions that they will dump existing players to make room for the newcomers.

Tedy, Alexander, Larry Okie, , and um...Webster, and then, ....Yates,, and of course um,... It is pretty damn difficult. In this discussion, you have been moaning about players to be needed now, that can start in two or three years.

This Team is L-O-A-D-E-D. And getting even younger, faster and more loaded.

Turning to the Defensive line. Seymour's CAP number this year is almost $10 million dollars. What makes you think that a re-signing is going to cost much more? All it will do is extend his contract, perhaps drop salary the first year, as he receives his SB, and extend years. Probably at a net saving in CAP in 2009. Probably enough to pay for Wright's added costs. Is there any indication in recent play, that Greene's salary will increase or more likely decrease or stay the same in an extension? I would guess the roster/option bonus wil be turned into a SB, and a few years added. His effective salary will increase marginally, but the 2009 CAP should decline by a few million. When Tedy announces his retirement, so does his $2 million dollar cap allocation.

I simply don't see any money problems to the Pats keeping everyone they want to keep. And that includes Cassel too, for 2009.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The thing that muddles the cap picture right now is the possibility of the uncapped years. Because of that teams are reluctant right now to extend players through uncapped years because of the price uncertainty that situation will bring. If the CBA were fixed soon... say sometime in 2009. I think you'd see a lot more movement on the extending players front from the Pats front office.