Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 21, 2006.
There are so many, but I think I provided a pretty good selection.
I vote for "failing to find Osama Bin Ladin because that's the only thing he promised to do and now doesn't care where he is. Illegal wiretapping is a VERY close second. Enabling Iran is a dubious question because Iran has not posed an imminent threat to the US (like Iraq). Invading Iraq was not a mistake. The other problems are consequences of a thousand other factors.
Wistah, don't you think taking out Saddam played right into Iran's hands. Up until Saddam's downfall, Iran was investing heavily in defending itself from Iraq. But, now it can use that money to develop nuclear weapons. Also, while some think Bush lied to start the war on Iraq, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think it was all a big mistake -- HIS people provided him with bad intelligence and HE was not smart enough to request more evidence or evaluate the the information more wisely.
You're falling into the trap that assumes Iran is a threat to us. They have not attacked us and are no more likely to be a threat to us than Pakistan or the KoSA is. Israel, maybe, but so what?
I'm not buying that Bush didn't have designs on Iraq while he was running for his 1st term. Look at his first Cabinet - all his daddy's buddies.
Wistah, the reality is that Israel has enormous bipartisan support in this country, and probably has close to as many allies as any other country. Also, just out of curiosity, if it was England, and not Israel, that was threatened, would you have the same views? I'm not in complete disagreement with you regarding our Israel policy, but I do think we have to weigh in reality. If Israel is attacked by Iran, it's very likely the U.S. (because of the evangelicals, Jews, and other groups) would get involved. Lastly, a fundamentalist naton of any sort is a threat to world peace, as the United States is now demonstrating to some degree.
Bush's biggest failure?
Not locking up every senator who has openly and publicly undermined the war effort by thier clearly seditious words.
Not doing something about illegal immigration, is his biggest failure.
I second that
Yup, that's a good one.
According to Paul O'Neil, who was Bush's Sec. of Treasury, during the first cabinet meetings they were discussing Iraq. Bush asked his cabinet people for an excuse to attack Iraq. Months later Bush sat in an elementary classroom dumbfounded when told of the attack on America.
So that's the trend you want? The administration that's in power gets to lock up opposing senators? Remember, what's good for the goose...
hmm..so are you saying that Iraq was resposible for 9-11???
I never said anything about locking up senators who oppose the administration. Please read a little more carefully before you respond. Thanks
2). Patriot Act.
3). Patriot Act.
4). See #'s 1-3, and talk to me, if I'm not arrested by then for violating the Patriot Act by challenging it.
I voted for the budget deficit. Taking a longer term view, that deficit will most likely do a lot of damage to the US economy. I don't think he could have stopped 9/11. OK, perhaps they might have stopped that specific attack in hindsight, but something else would have replaced it. In a non-Police state there is only so much he could have done to stop that happening.
As for Iraq, I'm not so sure, either. What we don't know for certain is whether he wilfully ignored the evidence around WMDs or whether he misread poor intelligence. One is an impeachable offence and the other is up to the voters to decide.
Not going after OBL was a bad mistake as well, although we again can't say with any certainty that he would have caught him, had US troops gone in on 9/11 itself.
I've read Richard Clarke's book "against all enemies". I actually wasn't that impressed, as he makes a lot of claims that he can't back up. He also gives the impression of someone who is covering his own backside.
Having said that, I have read too many times that Bush had an obsession with going into Iraq. I also feel that we won't find out until his administration is out of power. At that point, I feel that people will break any silences that they are currently keeping.
As for the illegal immigration issue, here are some things to ponder.
Playing devil's advocate, all of your ancestors invaded someone else's country and could be seen as "illegals". I'm being facetious here, but I don't recall anyone asking the Native Americans' permission to settle their country.
American businesses profit handsomely from illegal immigrants' use. They are cheaper and don't need social insurance. As consumers, you also benefit, in that they keep prices low. Bear in mind that you pay in dollars what we pay in pounds, meaning that in real times we pay about 1.8 times as much.
Illegal immigrants only get work that nobody else is prepared to do. When people say that illegal immigrants take their jobs, they talk about those at the bottom of the job market. We have the same complaint here in the UK. However, if you are here illegally, you can't get public housing or social benefits. How many of you have had your $30k job taken by an illegal immigrant?
If there are problems with unemployment, perhaps look at the CEOs for your answers. Americans, not foreigners, are outsourcing your jobs. They are making people redundant and employing cheap labour elsewhere and are paying themselves large bonuses in the process. The same people have also benefited from a tax cut under Bush. If you want to stop this, the answer is very simple. Use your consumer power and shop only at places which employ legal Americans. Be prepared to pay more for the privilege though.
Find me ONE instance of any American citizen being arrested or having rights violated due to the Patriot Act.
I'll be anxiously awaiting your response
Good post gomez.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying except for the illegal immigration thing and even that is pretty much a semantics thing.
As far as immigration goes, I encourage it. I agree that immigrants do a LOT of work in this country that your everyday average Joe American wont do. Having said that, I am for LEGAL immigration where everyone who comes into this country and works (or doesnt work for that matter) is documented so we know who is coming in and who has to pay taxes on their earnings.
His biggest mistake? Not eradicating Islam from the face of the earth. Once that's accomplished, the majority of the terrorism factor will die with it.
Islam is founded on death, and will be disbanded the same way.
Chevy, remember that Christian culture gave rise to Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, King Leopold, and others who make Osama bin Laden seem like a saint. Your post in my opinion is remarkably ignorant and shows no knowledge whatsoever of Islam. Just remember, it's western culture that through Colonialism, Nazi-ism, and Stalinism that has done far more harm. Your attitude helps prove my point. Thanks.
That's so ignorant it makes me sad. Islam, the religion, makes no mention of killing or acts of terrorism any more than the Christian Bible advocates blowing up abortion clinics. It's been hijacked, just like Christianity has, by the militiant sect who twist its words to their calling.
Othwise, given the Crusades and later events, should Christianity also be "eradicated"?
Finally, how do you eradicate a religion? Ban people from practicing it? That's not very American of you...
Separate names with a comma.