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Which do you prefer - Jets/Dolphins losing streak or better 49ers draft pick

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Nov 13, 2007.

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Seems to me that as enjoyable watching the Dophins' history making "perfect season" in the works is, as well as watching MangIdiot twisting in the wind, we should actually be rooting for the 49ers slide to continue while the Fins and Jets pick up some wins to give us a better draft pick.

    That being said, I think I'm content with say, a #5 pick as I think the salary to value comparison is a better one for a team like the Patriots... i.e. we'd have to pay out the nose for a #2 pick.

    So even though seeing the Jets and Fins do better than the 49ers is in our interest, I think I'd prefer to see the Fins and Jets streaks continue, rather than even getting a better pick from the 49ers.

    Where do others come down on this?
  2. cavtroop

    cavtroop Rookie

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    is this season of A BIG FU to the league, I'm all for the jets and dolphins losing out. The sweet spot for our (SF's) #1 pick is in the 5-8 range - much higher, and its tough to trade, or we are stuck with a high salary for a rookie.
  3. RobAllan

    RobAllan Rookie

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    Here's how I look at it:

    1. Dolphins Losing Streak
    2. Draft Placement
    3. Jets Losing Streak

    The Jets have already lost enough and in such bad form that I'm happy. The Dolphins, however, are a true show. I want to see that 0-16!!! And I do want to see it worse than I'd like a higher pick in the draft.

    Don't forget that there's a great deal of talk about a rookie salary cap and we may start to see that after this season. I don't know what will come of it, but there's an outside chance high pick does not equal mega-deal.
  4. pwes

    pwes Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    As long as it is a top 5 pick then it's fine. I'd much rather see the Jets and Fins keep losing. I have a feeling the Fins are going to beat the Jets though. Ugh, Who do you pick to win in that game?
  5. solman

    solman Rookie

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    I hate this argument. Any team that would pay us X for a #5 pick will pay more than X for a #1 pick.

    They won't give us 1300 extra DPVC points for the #1. They may not even give us half that much. But it is impossible for me to believe that the top pick isn't worth at least a #5 plus a second rounder.

    The main impediment to getting a deal like this done is that most GMs cant handle the negative public reaction to a trade in which they lose close to 1000 DPVC points. BB/SP are probably the only exceptions to this rule.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  6. Wax Frog

    Wax Frog Rookie

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    The Jets cannot lose enough for me, especially this year. I'll take my chances with their early first-rounder hopefully turning into a bust.
  7. LoveDemPats

    LoveDemPats Rookie

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    I would prefer taht the pats have the number one pick in the draft.

    I think that anyone with half a brain would agree with this. Therefore, anything that will help this is in order.

    I totally trust BB and Pioli to make it all work.

    By the way, the reason it is hard "sometimes" to trade the top pick is because there is no one worthy of this label. There are plenty of teams that need a franchise qb. The cap is increasing. It would be one of the best times to have the top pick in the draft as far as I am concerned. There is a lot of talent coming out this next year.

    No matter what pick we get (because it looks like it will be high) I think that the pats are going to be sitting in a sweet spot.
  8. seven

    seven Rookie

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    I don't see the Pats paying all the money for the high pick either. they just don't do that,and it
    "appears" to be working. Heh.

    They would likely trade for a lower first,plus next years first,something like that.

    But for certain,a very nice problem to have,eh?
    :rocker:
  9. SeauOUCH

    SeauOUCH Rookie

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    I agree 100%, the higher pick the better imo. If they really want to move the pick they will be able to move it.

    I don't get all the Dolphin hate, I feel bad for them. I always liked Jason Taylor & Zach Thomas, great great football players.

    I am really hoping the Jets lose out though, I would laugh my ass off if Mangenius got fired after this season & ended up coaching in some crappy D3 school for the rest of his career.
  10. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

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    I'm enticed by an 0-16 team because it has never happened before. The Jets going 1-15 is about par for that franchise (I'm kidding, but they have done it before). The Jets suck, they are in the midst of suffering a woefully dreadful season, but the Dolphins could have a historically pathetic season. That is more enticing to me at this point.

    As another poster has said, though, the #1 overall pick would be hilarious to have, just to hear Chris Berman say during the Super Bowl postgame "and the New England Patriots are on the clock" (if they win it of course. Especially if they go undefeated).

    The 9ers aren't going to win another game this season, and I think the Jets will beat the Dolphins, so the 9ers pick is going to be top three anyway. Is there really a tremendous advantage b/w picking number one as opposed to number two? Not especially.

    Either way I'll be pumped. The very definition of a "win/win situation."
  11. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    For sure, I want the highest draft pick possible. Would like to see the Fins and Jets win a few games so they have a worse pick. Really, can you imagine the Super Bowl champs having a top 3 pick? THAT is the biggest FU to the league and commish...
  12. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Top 3, top 5, top 7.................. It's all good, and makes my happy, but......

    It gives me GREAT PLEASURE to watch the JETS/Dolphins misery and I wouldn't change that for the world.
  13. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Rookie

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    I'm greedy. I want it all. :D
    I want the Jets and Dolphins to continue to SUCK.
    ...and I want a top 5 pick. :singing:
    The Jets can't SUCK enough for me. I hate that team. I have a soft sport for Miami because of Jason Taylor. It's a damn shame that such a great player might retire without a ring. On the otherhand, watching that old "UNDEFEATED" Dolphin team fret over our season while they lament over this current Dolphin team continue to suck will be PRICELESS.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  14. JaredOfNazareth

    JaredOfNazareth Rookie

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    Lets look at it this way. You're a kid after school in a pickup game. You and another kid are picking teams and you do rock paper scissors to determine who picks first. If you get 1st pick you'll probably win because there's always that one really really good player. Now what if your money was riding on this game? Do you want the higher pick?

    You guys who want to see other fans suffer must know a lot of Jets/Phins fans. Then you would get to talk trash to them. Otherwise you're just spitefull and lame. But it doesn't matter. I like it just fine that my team beats team and couldn't care less about the rest of their games.....until now!

    There would be a bonus if we got the top pick. Mel Kiper's head would explode!

    I do think we will pick before one of them. They play each other again and if the Jets win that game and one other we're good. No worries about San Fran winning another game. They are the worst team in the league.
  15. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    Man, Joe, that's really a tough call! I seriously don't know which I'd prefer. Not enough bad football things can happen to the Jests and Doofins, but how great would a Top 5 pick be if the season were to play out as it started. I may have to flip a coin.
  16. PatriotReign720

    PatriotReign720 Rookie

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    best season for any national football league team, ever. the Pats were able to take controversy and turn it into well played within the rules anger on the field and look unstoppable.
  17. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    Actually it's both, I know a lot of Jest/Doofin fans AND I'm spiteful. Lame? I'm not entirely sure of that but it's possible.
  18. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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    In case you can't tell, the Jets have already packed it in. From here on out, they're playing for the Chris Long / McFadden sweepstakes. They're going to fold like house of cards, just watch. Putting Vilma on IR was the first sign...............

    The thought of the Rat picking right before us in the draft just really ticks me off.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2007
  19. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    Give me the better draft pick. No brainer.

    Which do you think is more humiliating to the Jets/Dolphins:

    A.) They have the two worst records in the league,

    or...

    B.) They have the 2nd and 3rd worst records in the league AND we win the Super Bowl AND we pick ahead of them in the Draft.


    Yeah, give me B, all day every day.
  20. Amnorix

    Amnorix Rookie

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    Higher pick is better. Also, we'd all LMAO if we had a higher pick then the Jets and Dolphins, who each had, say, 3 wins, if we'd also won the SB.

    Talk about rubbing their noses in it...
  21. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

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    Short term vs. long term, my friend. A defeated season is historic, them feeling like douches on draft day will last all of three months, if that.
  22. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    You take the Top 5 pick. So what about $$$ for a top 5 pick. if we get a cover corner or the next Ray Lewis, the Jets or 'Fins can win the rest of their games (excluding the ones with the Pats of course).
  23. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    I don't care about the Dolphins feeling bad, I care about us getting the most value possible out of our draft pick.
  24. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    But one does have to admit there is a cost benefit analysis that needs to be considered when talking Top 5 draft picks.

    #5 = a guy like Richard Seymour (who we took at #6). Expensive rookie contract? Yes - and one that he outplayed and represented great value for us.

    Draft Seymour at #1 and you've still got a Pro-Bowl player, but the value isn't as high.

    And since rookie salaries wind up being slotted with inflation over the previous year, a #2 or #1 draft pick is going to get a HUGE salary - to the point where a great many teams have NO interest in the #1 pick.

    So for me, and for a great many GMs, the increased salary cost of a #1 pick compared to #5 doesn't necessarily match how much better the #1 pick is compared to the #5.

    Furthermore, I don't think one can say one can "easilly" trade a #1 pick. Not every team wants the #1 pick for the reasons just discussed and would trade down if equal draft value were offered - but sometimes they get "stuck" with the #1 pick.

    So for me, #5 plus a "perfect" Dolphins season, plus a 2-14 Jets season represents the best value for my viewing dollar.
  25. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    The #1 pick is more valuable than the #5 pick, period. You may have to give a discount to get out of that spot but you'll no doubt get something. Even if it's just a 2nd or 3rd. Someone will give it to you, I guarantee.

    The Dolphins having an 0-16 season has absolutely zero value to me.
  26. bunzoburns

    bunzoburns Rookie

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    If STL beats SF this week, SF moves into the #3 pick based on SOS.
  27. abdul7

    abdul7 Rookie

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    For me, a no brainer. High as possible Draft pick say 1, 2 or 3 and in BB we trust. How can anyone just say we cant trade whichever pick we get !
    Secondly why not pick THE player BB and Pioli are praying to get. All i know is wichever way it ends up right now , high ie 1,2 or 3 pick is what Patriots front office want. Dont you think they will just love that Good Headache ?
  28. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    uh - yeah, I'd imagine if you are seeking only a 2nd or 3rd pick to trade for the #1 pick you'd probably not have a problem trading it.

    Of course, that seems to undermine the "value" of the pick.

    There's no question that for the risk/reward of using and paying for a #1 pick, some teams just do not want it... they'd prefer to drop back to #5.

    Trading out of the #1 spot in many years is difficult, if not impossible if one wants equal draft value - which teams almost always do.

    Ask the 49ers how they feel about the value of their previous #1 pick and whether he's worth the money.

    No doubt having your choice of ALL the players in the draft is a benefit of a #1 pick but you have to pay a lot for that privilege, and many teams prefer not to take that risk given the cost.

    It seems to me that BB has made his name on the recognition that there's better value to be had later in the first round of the draft and I really question how happy he'd be if he got "stuck" with a #1 pick and the accompanying salary.
  29. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    Exactly...which is why it's better than having #5. It's pretty simple.


    Yup, and it's easy to trade back to #5 if you're not demanding the full "trade chart value". If you really want out of that spot, you'll make the deal for lesser value.



    He didn't trade down when we had the #6 overall and he traded up in the middle of the first to get Warren.

    He knows what he wants. If it's not there he'll trade out.

    There is no possible scenario where you are "stuck" with the #1 if you don't want it. If you were desperate you could trade straight up #1 for #5.
  30. onegameatatime

    onegameatatime Rookie

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    I occasionally have to remind myself that whether I am rooting for one team or another has zero effect on the outcome.

    So ... I will be rooting for the Jets and Phins to lose, but thinking that there is an upside if I "lose."

    My head agrees with what's been said that #1 > #5. So if we could trade down from #1 to #5 and pick up a 2nd round this year and third or fourth next year, we've had a good day. (Actually, based on the chart, the #1 should be worth the entire draft of the #5 picker or even #4 picker, but who wants to look like a fool like Ditka trading his entire draft for Ricky Williams.)

    Unfortunately, there is no blockbuster QB that we would have no interest in.
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