Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Jul 25, 2010.
Vollmer could play LT, RT and perhaps LG. Where would you like to start him?
RT because Light is more comfortable on the left side and Kaczur is a disaster on the right side.
Assuming Mankins is not back, I would start Vollmer at right tackle and try moving Kaczur to left guard. If Mankins returns, I'd have Vollmer and Kaczur battle it out at RT, and I'd have Kaczur taking snaps at RG as well.
Continuity seems to play a big part in how effective an offensive line is. Presumably there is already one change with Mankins' situation. Leave Light at LT and start Vollmer at RT, with Kaczur replacing Mankins. If Mankins and the Pats do agree to terms then Kaczur can be the first OL off the bench.
Kaczur's skills and liabilities seem to point to him being a much better guard than a tackle, where he won't have to deal with pass rushers speeding past him. I don't see the benefit of moving Vollmer to guard and leaving Kaczur at tackle.
Go to Pro Football Focus.com. These scouts rate every play by every player each season, and all in, including run blocking, pass blocking and penalties, Kaczur rated higher in 2009 than Matt turnstile Light.
So this argument says move Light to LG and Vollmer plays LT. So why not??
I say RT for this season; and then move him to LT next season, and then think about whether Light can move to another position or trade/cut him.
Mythbusters: Patriots edition.
Today's myth: Nick Kaczur is a disaster on the right side. The link below contains pro foorball focus rankings of NFL offensive tackles (thanks, crowell33, for reminding me of this site!).
ProFootballFocus.com - By Position
Kaczur is ranked #28 overall, 14th among regular right tackles. He's also the ONLY tackle in the NFL who rates as average across the board (pass blocking, run blocking, screen blocking). He doesn't excell anywhere, but there are no liabilities in his game. Also note, ZERO PENALTIES in 2009!
ProFootballFocus.com - By Player
This links to Kaczur's individual page. We see that Kaczur struggled against Baltimore (vs. Jarrett Johnston), Indy (vs. Robert Mathis) and Carolina vs. Julius Peppers). Not exactly lightweightsAgainst all other opponents he either played average football or held a slight advantage.
So the bottom line is, in Kaczur, we're looking at an average right tackle at worst. And, I would say, 2009 was a down year for Kaczur.
LT instead of the turnstile, put him at LG. He'd be good there.
For one, several people here have debunked PFF as a reliable place for statistics. For another, Kaczur has one glaring flaw in his game and that's keeping speed rushers at bay. His lateral movement is just about terrible. Remember what Robert Mathis did to us when Neal left the game and he was going one on one with Kaczur? I don't like the guy at all at RT.
As for the thread, I would slide Vollmer in at RT. Light has played LT for his entire career and it wouldn't make sense to introduce him to a new position (one that he is uncomfortable with) at this point. Without Mankins, Kaczur could play LG where his lateral movement issues would be made null.
DISRUPTION OF THE OL
Except for when there were injuries, the line for the past four years has been Light, Mankins,Koppen, Neal and Kaczur.
The LEAST disruption would be four four of the players to play where they have for four years and have Vollmer start at LG where many college LT's start in the nfl. The decision would come next year when the decision is made whether to keep Light. In any case, are there questions here about the ability of Vollmer to play LG. Mankins has been an pro-bowl LG. Is there a reason why Vollmer cannot be an all-pro LG? Kaczur would not be the biggest question mark iof Vollmer started at LG. The biggest question would be Neal's health.
Starting Kaczur at LG is a fine idea. We'll try it in camp. It is my best option. HOWEVER, I am not at all sure he will be effective at LG. He has played OT for his career. The question is whether he is goo enough to start at a new position.
Many think that the best RT we've had under Belichick is a liability starting at RT. This makes no sense to me. I suspect that it makes little sense to Belichick who extended him to a fine contract instead of draftng a RT in 2009. Yes, Kaczur needs help against top speed rushers. He is not a TOP rated RT. He plays fine when Neal is in there and there is a tight end who can block, even against top rushers. For me, Kaczur is an average talent who will not lose us games.
I am not at all sure that Kaczur will be a solid LG, but that is what camp is for.
THE "REAL" QUESTION FOR THE 2010 LINE
I think that real question is how may games Neal is healthy for. The dropoff from Neal to Connoplly is considerable.
We spent a week a few weeks ago debunking these stats arguing with Jets fans talking about how great Ferguson is. So I am not going back on it now. These stats are subjective and I don't buy into them at all.
From my point of view, the o-line worked best last year with Light at LT and Vollmer at RT. Why screw with that? Brady didn't have a sack for over a month at that point.
And why do you think that Kaczur will give you the same result in place of Mankins.
Is it that LG's can be anybody? Or is that Vollmer is a one-trick pony and cannot play LG.
I am somewhat amazed when the consensus is that Light and Vollmer are the inflexible players and that Kaczur is so good that he can learn a new position late in his career and replace a probowler without consequence.
I don't know anyone who's claiming that Vollmer is an inflexible player. On the other hand, and has been pointed out elsewhere, Light is an inflexible player. From the mouth of the coach:
Belichick hints (again) at tackle situation's future - Extra Points - Boston.com
When did I say that? I said the o-line worked best with Light at LT and Vollmer at RT.
Never said that either. I think Vollmer is pretty versatile since he can play both LT and RT. I just think Kazcur is better suited at guard than Vollmer and I think Vollmer at RT serves the team more.
I am somewhat amazed that you are putting words in my mouth (on on my keyboard). Your amazement may be in part that you are reading things in my post that clearly aren't there. I think Kazcur is suited to play guard. I think we got tackle play with Light at LT and Vollmer at RT. When you have a successful tackle combination, you shouldn't screw with it.
Also, I would be worried about Vollmer's height with him playing the interior part of the line. He might block some of Brady's sightlines. Vollmer is four inches taller than both Kazcur and Brady. So I guess I am saying that Vollmer is too tall to play guard.
BTW, are you amazed at the close mindedness of Bill Belichick? He has Light at LT, Kazcur at LG, and Vollmer at RT. I don't expect that line up to change unless Mankins returns or injuries happen.
From left to right:
Ideally: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Vollmer with Kaczur as backup at 3 positions
With Mankins being a whiny "something": Light, Kaczur, Koppen, Neal, Vollmer
Ideally, when Neal is hurt: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Kaczur, Vollmer
Ideally, when Light is hurt: Vollmer, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur
Neal is hurt w/o Mankins: Light, Kacuzr, Koppen, Connolly, Vollmer
Light is hurt w/o Mankins: Vollmer, Kaczur, Koppen, Neal, LeVoir
Light and Neal hurt w/o Mankins: Vollmer, Kaczur, Koppen, Connolly, LeVoir:bricks:
Being a Canuck it is hard to say this but NIck has gotta mozy over to LG...I do not have stats to back this up but it appeared that #12 has experienced some pressure from that side quite often the past couple years. Don't know if it is scheme or personnel...
If Mankins returns, I'd have Vollmer compete with Kaczur for RT. If Kaczur plays LG, I would have Vollmer play RT.
Only Logan Mankins can play left guard. No one else. Once Mankins leaves, this year or 2015, the Patriots will never win a single game again.
Come on, who said anybody can play LG?
Playing OG (l or R) plays to Kaczur's strenth. He is much stronger against the bull rush than speed rush. Hasn't that been evident?
I actually agree with most of your points on this thread, but I have some concerns about Vollmer at LG. At Houston, Vollmer played in a spaced Oline spread passing formation. During Volmer's senior year at Houston, the offense averaged 562 yards and 41 points per game. They had over 600 offensive yards 6 times and over 700 offensive yards against UTEP !
Vollmer allowed a stunning one sack in over 600 pass attempts at left tackle. However, he has only played out in space, utilizing his 6'7 1/2" frame and was a below average ( inexperienced ? ) run blocker coming out of college. I have concerns about how he would project to the LG position.
At OLB - He could probably do as well as some of our other guys :snob:
vollmer at lt, levoir, kaczur, or welch at rt...connolly is a stud backup, very very versatile on the interior. Light could be a great vet, leader, and dependable experienced backup imo.
I'd start him at LT with Light at RT and Connolly at LG. Bruschi is right about tall Guards imo and i'd avoid using either Kaczur or Vollmer at the position and go with a true OG instead. However I think Belichik will keep Light at LT and start Vollmer at RT for consistency.
Thank you for your analysis. After reading Bruschi's comments and analysis here, I suspect that Belichick actually consider have a guard play guard and not any of the tackles.
RT except for games against speed rushers - then I'd put him in at LT for Light.
Vollmer did a good job against speed rushers last season. Light? Not so good.
Light was pretty bad in the beginning, got better late in the season but then had a god awful game against Baltimore.
I don't care for stats. From what I saw during the season, Kaczur was terrible.
Posters think Kaczur was terrible. It is good thing that posters don't run the team.
Kaczur was awful. If the Pats had any "depth", which people on this board claim they do, Koppen and Kaczur would've been replace a long time ago.
Separate names with a comma.