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Where will the cap space go???

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by sarge, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    It is 3 weeks (or approximately) till training camp. The Pats are still way under the cap, and signing the rookies won't bring them up to it.

    They still haven't gotten anywhere with Branch, and about the only free agent on the market worth any money is Law. And I will be shocked if the Pats sign him!

    But even signing all these players may not take up all the cap space.

    As we sit here at this point with this much space, I am becoming more and more p!ssed about letting McGinnest walk without so much as an offer!

    Any ideas where this money is going to go???

    People say "Well do you really think they are going to start the season without spending the cap space", and reasonably I say no!

    But at this point, what is there to spend the cap space on???

    I am disappointed to say the least.

    If they can lock up a few of our own long term, I would feel better. Especially Branch, Koppen and Samual.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2005
  2. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    Yeah, as much as I would like to sign free agents, the Pats are doing the right thing and sitting tight. Just because you have 13-15 million in cap space doesn't mean you should spend it. Granted, the Pats have a few key free agents they should think about resigning (Branch, Koppen, Samuel, Graham), however, it would be way too pre-mature to sign any of these potential free agents after this season until they show they deserve an extention. Who knows, maybe the Pats have their sights set on a specific player in free agency next season that would be an upgrade over any of the following potential free agents listed above. My prediction, had Ed Reed not signed an extention with the Ravens, the Pats would have been a major player for him. With that said, next offseason, with the ample amount of cap space the Pats will have enough money to make a big splash in free agency continuing to make this franchise a powerhouse.

    Can someone try to get a list of potential free agents for '07.
  3. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    If I'm not mistaken, you can't carry space from this year into next unless you do some creative accounting.

    My biggest fear is that they just won't spend to the cap.

    I know this has never happened before! And I'm not saying I beleive it will. Just a little worried.

    I just don't see what is out there of any value to spend the cap space on. And if you have a bunch of space left in the end, then why is one of the greatest Patriots to ever put on the uniform wearing a Browns jersey?
  4. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    I don't see why not cap space would carry over into the next offseason, but if your right then I would like the Pats to use it on Ty Law and extend their own players.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A chunk of it, $6M or so, can go to the first option in Seymour's contract - there's a discussion about that somewhere.

    This is from Miguel's page :

    Next year, Seymour is due an option bonus of $18.66 million. If the option is not exercised, Seymour will become a free agent in 2008, and his 2007 base salary becomes $19.26 million AND is guaranteed. He has workout bonuses of $106,720 each season from 2007 through 2009.His cap numbers each season will be $4,420,160 in 2006, $8,261,720 in 2007, $8,391,720 in 2008 and $11,346,720 in 2009."
    April 17, 2006 update From a very reliable resource - "fyi, the $18.66M option bonus is actually two option bonuses . . . the first, for $6.66M is due between aug. 4 of this year and march of next year . . . the second, for $12M is due by march 7 of next year"
  6. Va_Pats_Fan

    Va_Pats_Fan Rookie

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    Could they do the same with some of Brady's contract if they had...say 5 M in dec still untapped?
  7. Hok

    Hok Rookie

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    If they're smart, they'll just convert a lot of unamortized signing bonuses into roster bonuses.
  8. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cap space itself isn't credited to the next league year, but logic tells you that most deals made now will have some type of impact down the road.
  9. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can't convert signing bonuses after the fact, if that's what you mean, because once they have been paid they are amortized, and once amortized they are locked in and they cannot be restructured.

    They crafted Seymour's deal in a way that a substantial chunk of what they would have amortized in a signing bonus on a deal that doesn't really even kick in until next year can be absorbed this year in one lump sum under a cap windfall. They could do the same in deals for others, but there is no pressing need to. If it is better from a responsible standpoint to wait and see on deals for some of these guys (pending health, improved or more consistent performance), they can be dealt with up until the last week of the season, or the money can be written into some LTBE incentives in the youngsters or backups contracts that they will never see - and when they don't that will be credited to our 2007 cap to deal with the guys we decide to try and keep or choose to extend before FA begins in March. In the past we did just the opposite - made some incentives NLTBE even though we pretty much figured guys would reach them but we didn't have the cap space for them at the time - those were deucted from the following years cap in effeft giving us less to work with in the future. The league's cap was $102M this year. Our adjusted cap was $100M because we utilized a method that allowed us to postpone the hit on $2M of last years incentives in some players contracts onto this years cap.

    Brady's deal was set up so once a new CBA was approved we could convert some salary to bonus and further amortize about $3M of his deal the expiring CBA wouldn't accommodate. We are not doing that now because of the cap windfall, so we are already actually absorbing the biggest hit of his deal ($14M) this year under that windfall. And they could certainly decide in December to give him a roster bonus in exchange for lowering his salary in 2007 and/or 2008. His cap numbers are extremely manageable as it is, with space left in 2010 for further amortization along the way if needed, but money you don't have to account for in his cap hit later is certainly then freed up to be used on someone else.

    So we are doing things now that will allow us to have more flexibility in 2007 and beyond than a lot of other teams. That is a sound football as business strategy. No point spending money you can save for a rainy day unless there is something you really want or need to spend it on today. This was not a banner year for FA.
  10. Hok

    Hok Rookie

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    My mistake.

    At the very least, then, they should sign Branch to a deal with as much of his guaranteed money as possible in the form of an '06 roster bonus.
  11. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've said it before and took heat but I believe a good chunk of it stays with Bob Kraft. I still believe he was not happy with the CBA and means to get back some if not all the money he felt should have been his.".

    Yes I know his son was left to do the best he could with a bad situation but
    Bob Kraft was not happy the way I read it and departed the country for
    Israel. I wouldn't be surprised to see 5M or more stay with Mr. Kraft.
    hey ... it's his company ... he can do whatever he wants.
    ( the above is pure specualtion but from things I have read that is what it
    seems like to me)
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They would probably like to, but they aren't going to agree to overpay him just so they can get a deal done and use up cap.

    And they may very well yet have pre camp plans for some of it. They tried to sign a starting CB in the first week of FA. He simply decided to stay in Pittsburgh instead. Then as a fallback they signed Warfield. But I still think they are hoping to add a starting CB, he's just not an easy guy to pin to a deal.

    And again, they can do deals right up to the last week in the season and take as much of the hit as they choose to this season. Guys like Koppen, Graham or Samuel and even Branch could be extended five and a half months from now after observing their play and that of others for 16 weeks of a season - there is no rush to spend what will essentially be around $7M that will remain after the rookies are signed and Seymour's first option payment is dealt with.
  13. Underoath

    Underoath Rookie

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    Here's where i think the money should go in order:

    1.) Deion Branch
    2.) Ty Law
    3.) Donnie Edwards
    4.) Trade for Lelie
  14. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

    I see no reason at all for Bob Kraft to suddenly take the cheap way out. Has NEVER been his style since he bought the team. Nothing but first class all the way - look at our SB rings versus Steelers for a quick example.
  15. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Should they spend money just to spend it?
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2005
  16. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't see it as the "cheap" way rather than a way to get back millions that
    he may feel was taken in an unfair manner ... the CBA. I don't see him
    unwilling to give for something he gets but he may feel cheated the way
    the CBA went down. Again this is just speculation. Who knows there may
    be several contracts coming down that will eat up most of the CAP left.
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly. Pocketing cap money would be a terribly short sighted revenge stragegy for one of the least short sighted businessmen in the NFL. Basically cutting off your nose to spite your face. This franchises recent success has been built on winning and good business practices. Filling a state of the art stadium with the highest ticket prices in the league isn't an automatic - you do that by fielding a championship caliber team. We have never not spent to the cap. One way or another that money will find itself used for player payroll, and whether this year or next matters not because availability of talent or ability to resign it without overpaying for value can't necessarily be dictated.

    Bob Kraft is the man who signed off on a $100M deal for Drew and a cap killer deal for Ty. While he may still be consulted on mega signings like Seymour or Brady, by and large Belioli are the ones with the ATM card for the cap dollars. They have plans, and fallback plans and alternative fallback plans for what remains of this years cap. We just don't know what those are because Belichick operates on a need to know basis, and no one outside of his FO inner circle really needs to know WTF he is planning. :nono:
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2005
  18. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) About $1.8 million will go to sign the draft picks
    2.) About 1,140,000 will go to account for players 52,53, and the 8-man practice squad.
    3.) About $1.25 million will go into a emergency reserve fund to replace players placed on IR during the season.
  19. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    No, but let me ask you this!

    Purely hypothetical. Wouldn't you be upset if for some reason they had unspent money where they could have easily resigned Willie?

    I know I would.

    Suppose the choices are to overpay for Branch, or not spend to the cap and lose Branch next season.

    Again, purely hypothetical.

    Odds are the Pats will shock me and make some great moves with the space.

    I'm just getting a little nervous considering how close the training camp we are, and the lack of any movement.

    Basically, they can spend the money on extending there own players, or signing free agents.

    I have seen or heard almost no movement on trying to sign our own players.

    And there is only 1 free agent on the market worth anything anymore.
  20. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why does it have to be "revenge"? Why not simply finding a way to get
    back money that he feels was unfairly taken? Revenge implies he does
    something to hurt the one who hurt him. He not hurting the NFL owners
    doing this. ...

    If all needs are met according to BB they why would Kraft be cutting off
    his nose?

    I do not see that meaning there some invisible law in place that says
    Patriots must always spend to the CAP.

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