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Where does Mario Williams rank among NFL defenders?


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Be honest with yourselves, if Williams had signed here you all would be saying he was the best or close to the best Defensive player. This is so typical of this forum, we miss out on a player and all of a sudden he turns into a bum, hes not that good, we're better off without him. Personally i don't think he so good i would tie up $100 million in him.

I would have loved Mario in a Patriots uniform. However, the instant I saw how much the contract was for, that changed things. He'll need to lead the league in sacks every year to live up to that contract.
 
My thought on Williams: if this guy is really worth being the top-paid defensive player in the NFL, why were the Texans completely fine with letting him walk?

Yes he costs a lot of money and yes they have some promising young players behind him, but still, if he's really that good you don't let him go, right?

The Texans have Matt Schuab's and LT Duane Brown's contracts expiring after this season. I'm sure the Texans could have done some restructures and cuts and fit Mario in for THIS season but they'd be in a worse spot next year with 2 expensive positions to re-sign.

Even Bob McNair was saying they wanted him back, just looks like a new deal would have caused more problems than he's worth, no matter how good he is.
 
Williams was surplus to needs in Houston, and he would have cost more than Reed, Barwin, and Watt combined. The Texans are going to be good for a while with that kind of team building.
 
I think the impact williams is going to have is overrated as he was not the reason the texans defense is as good as it is. He became expendable because the texans have the 2 guys the pats are supposed to have (barwin and reed), and they will likely grab shea mcclellin in round 2 to keep a nice rotation going.
 
A step back??? We were 6-10 and just fielded our worst defense in the history of the franchise. Again, nothing is set in stone but I don't think teams will look forward to playing against our d line and it all starts up front. The Bills struggled with pressured and forced several QBs into multiple INTs. Even if MW doesn't get a sack, he frees up someone else.

And to answer your question about the last team to do well after spending mega bucks in FAcy: the 2010 Bears who went to the conference title game after signing Peppers to a similar deal. IMO, if you overspend, it should be on a QB or big body.

Yes, a step back. The Bills were doing very well last year before some major injuries to Fitz, Jackson, etc. They may have been the most injured team in the league. They have a lot of good, young players on that roster, and I think, with all the cap room, they could have upgraded a lot of positions and put themselves in wild card contention. Now, I just see them as one poor player performance away from 4-12.

In terms of whether we'd be happy if we got M Williams, of course. He is a very good player, maybe even elite. I don't think there's a single Pats fan who wouldn't have wanted him. But here is where you once again fall short in the reasoning department: this is about return on investment, and Williams will almost certainly not deliver a positive ROI. His contract would only be justified if he is much better than he's been previously, and more likely, that $20M per season was not a good move.

The Bills OUTBID the other teams for Mario Williams. This wasn't a victory by any means. If the Patriots had called Williams on Wednesday and offered him $25M, do you really think Pats fans would be justifiably beating their chests, boasting about how they just made a huge coup? What if the Panthers then went up to $30M per season? Are they then the smartest team? This is the whole point, at some time you've gone insane by giving up too much for one player on a team with 53 players. This isn't the NBA where one guy can win a championship or MLB where teams have unlimited payrolls.

I would say that, so far, this is one of the worst free agency moves of the year. There are very few free agency moves that work out, but usually they are done quietly and require the recognition of value and a high risk:reward ratio. In this case, it is very high risk with the slight possibility of high reward, but for Williams to actually outperform his contract, he'd have to be Lawrence Taylor in his prime, which he's not. Why is this so difficult to understand?
 
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Mario William is an excellent all around 4-3 DE. He was clearly out of position in the 3-4 as he's a tweener in terms of OLB and 3-4 DE. The only better all-around (run stuffing, pass rushing) DE in the league is Justin Tuck and Julius Peppers a couple of years ago. It'll be interesting to see all of the schemes Buffalo will be able to draw up with Mario, Kyle, and Dareus.
 
Philly IS a more glamorous location than Buffalo. I have nothing against Buffalo but i'd never choose to live there over Philly. Heck, I'd rather live in San Francisco than Philly. Most people would say that.

If you didn't read my post properly, I did say that it was a GOOD decision by the Bills to go after Mario. I also said that the reason to pay him that much was because of a lot of factors fans don't know.

It's cool. I wished Philly many times and like it there but I would never choose to live there either. It's crazy but not every person likes the same things.

That said, San Fran is probably the most desirable city to live in the country. It's just freaking expensive.
 
Yes, a step back. The Bills were doing very well last year before some major injuries to Fitz, Jackson, etc. They may have been the most injured team in the league. They have a lot of good, young players on that roster, and I think, with all the cap room, they could have upgraded a lot of positions and put themselves in wild card contention. Now, I just see them as one poor player performance away from 4-12.

In terms of whether we'd be happy if we got M Williams, of course. He is a very good player, maybe even elite. I don't think there's a single Pats fan who wouldn't have wanted him. But here is where you once again fall short in the reasoning department: this is about return on investment, and Williams will almost certainly not deliver a positive ROI. His contract would only be justified if he is much better than he's been previously, and more likely, that $20M per season was not a good move.

The Bills OUTBID the other teams for Mario Williams. This wasn't a victory by any means. If the Patriots had called Williams on Wednesday and offered him $25M, do you really think Pats fans would be justifiably beating their chests, boasting about how they just made a huge coup? What if the Panthers then went up to $30M per season? Are they then the smartest team? This is the whole point, at some time you've gone insane by giving up too much for one player on a team with 53 players. This isn't the NBA where one guy can win a championship or MLB where teams have unlimited payrolls.

I would say that, so far, this is one of the worst free agency moves of the year. There are very few free agency moves that work out, but usually they are done quietly and require the recognition of value and a high risk:reward ratio. In this case, it is very high risk with the slight possibility of high reward, but for Williams to actually outperform his contract, he'd have to be Lawrence Taylor in his prime, which he's not. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Well, I guess we'll just have to see. We got the #1 FA (unless you count Manning who is a giant gamble IMO) in by far and wide our biggest weakness. He has never played with 2 d linemen as good as Kyle Williams and Dareus.

Maybe it doesn't work out but it is definitely worth a shot. With inflation, contracts will rise every year. But when the Pats are the Kings, the Giants proved you beat them with your defensive line. And there is a lot to prove, but I love ours right now. So in my mind and most Bills fans, it is a great move worth every penny.
 
Well, I guess we'll just have to see. We got the #1 FA (unless you count Manning who is a giant gamble IMO) in by far and wide our biggest weakness. He has never played with 2 d linemen as good as Kyle Williams and Dareus.

Maybe it doesn't work out but it is definitely worth a shot. With inflation, contracts will rise every year. But when the Pats are the Kings, the Giants proved you beat them with your defensive line. And there is a lot to prove, but I love ours right now. So in my mind and most Bills fans, it is a great move worth every penny.

Yes, we'll see. I root hard for the Bills twice a year against the Jets, and I like them a lot better than the Dolphins as well. When I look at the alternatives, the Bills being good is okay with me.
 
Yes, we'll see. I root hard for the Bills twice a year against the Jets, and I like them a lot better than the Dolphins as well. When I look at the alternatives, the Bills being good is okay with me.

Cool. I'm 30, so growing up, I absolutely hated the Fins and the Jets & PAts were pretty bad. IT's funny how things change. My hatred for the Fins has faded (they've been pretty bad like us). As for the PAts, I actually respected the hell out of Brady and how he rose from a 6th rounder. I do think he has gotten a little hollywood and DAn Marino-like with the refs over the years but I still have to respect the guy.

I absolutely despite the Jets however. 2 of my best friends are Jets fans and they jsut act like total d bags. The Bills-Jets game in Buffalo is by far the worse because our colleges are filled with loudmouth Long Island kids who act like they root for the Steelers when they are closer to th eBrowns.

Either way, happy St. PAddy. Been to Boston a couple of times for it and it's a blast. But it's hard not to stay at home for a 75 degree March weekend in artic Buffalo. :rocker:
 
Well, I guess we'll just have to see. We got the #1 FA (unless you count Manning who is a giant gamble IMO) in by far and wide our biggest weakness. He has never played with 2 d linemen as good as Kyle Williams and Dareus.

Maybe it doesn't work out but it is definitely worth a shot. With inflation, contracts will rise every year. But when the Pats are the Kings, the Giants proved you beat them with your defensive line. And there is a lot to prove, but I love ours right now. So in my mind and most Bills fans, it is a great move worth every penny.

Definitely worth a shot. The signing itself gives enough momentum that I would like to not have to play Buffalo until October, so the steam cools some and Fitzy has a stinker or two under his belt and in the back of his mind.

However, we've exhausted how nasty that Texans defense was after Williams was long gone, so it's not like Mario Williams was hitting up the scouting agencies to find a good defense to play on at long last. Dareus was solid (we'll assume he will continue to improve since he's not one of our corners), and Williams is pretty good too (he was an alternate in the pro bowl for 2 or 3 seasons before this season) but holy homerism batman.
 
Mario is about to have the year of his life lined up with Kyle Williams & Dareus. They'll be the 2nd best line in football, behind the Giants.

He also brings a big intangible to the Bills, who have had a hard time attracting good FA's in recent years; last year, they out-bid the Falcons for Clabo, and Clabo still turned them down. That's not likely to happen anymore.

The Bills aren't overpaying him. This is the start of the Bills resurgence as a contender; you can't put a price tag on that.
 
I think Mario ranks as one of the most foolish NFL defensive players, if nothing else. Of all the places you could sign in the NFL, he picks an isolated, deserted wasteland of football that had to take some games out of town to sell tickets. He passes on contenders, and contenders in great towns for a little more $$. I give him less than two years and he'll be wishing he'd made another choice.

"This is the start of the Bills resurgence as a contender; you can't put a price tag on that."
Says who? I like Fitzpatrick but he's not the QB they need to get them into the elite. Sorry, the Bills are doomed, along with Mario. 2015 Bills training camp headline - Will Bills Ever Fulfill Promise?
 
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"This is the start of the Bills resurgence as a contender; you can't put a price tag on that." [/COLOR] Says who? I like Fitzpatrick but he's not the QB they need to get them into the elite. Sorry, the Bills are doomed, along with Mario. 2015 Bills training camp headline - Will Bills Ever Fulfill Promise?

Couldn't agree more. This is how agents screw up, too. Everyone gets focused on the dollars and loses sight of everything else. Wow. Just wow.
 
At the price the Bills payed to break even they need Williams to play all 16 games the next 4 years, have double digit sacks in each of those years, have at least a handful of pressures every game and be stout against the run. Years 5 and 6 he could always be cut but there a bonus if he gets there.

What are the odds of him doing that given recent history? Not good. He hasn't the last three years.

He's not Peppers or Ware and I'd take JPP and Suggs over him. If Aldon Smith can build on last year he might move into that group.

If he can stay healthy he will make the Bills a better team. The price tags and risk are just too high.
 
I think Mario ranks as one of the most foolish NFL defensive players, if nothing else. Of all the places you could sign in the NFL, he picks an isolated, deserted wasteland of football that had to take some games out of town to sell tickets. He passes on contenders, and contenders in great towns for a little more $$. I give him less than two years and he'll be wishing he'd made another choice.

"This is the start of the Bills resurgence as a contender; you can't put a price tag on that."
Says who? I like Fitzpatrick but he's not the QB they need to get them into the elite. Sorry, the Bills are doomed, along with Mario. 2015 Bills training camp headline - Will Bills Ever Fulfill Promise?

No offense, but you guys have basically become Yankees fans. "The best players should only play for the elite teams."

For you young 'uns, there actually was a time when Buffalo was on top & the Pats were on the bottom.
 
No offense, but you guys have basically become Yankees fans. "The best players should only play for the elite teams."

For you young 'uns, there actually was a time when Buffalo was on top & the Pats were on the bottom.

Well, thanks for calling me "young" but I was a fan of Thurman Thomas as a player, although not the Bills in general, but I respected them a great deal. They had a really talented team back then, better than when I watched OJ play. However, they were never "on top", they never won the SB. 4 painful losses do not a champion make.
 
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