When will we see the Pats get another big time WR?

[Deus Irae]

I'd rather see investment in a shut down defensive player than more offensive talent.

Meriweather (d)
Mayo (d)
Chung (d)
McCourty (d)
Solder (o)
Jones (d)
Collins (d)
Easley (d)
Brown (d)


8 of the last 9 players chosen first by the Patriots have been defensive players.


Second players chosen during that time:

Kareem Brown (d)
Terrence Wheatley (d)
Ron Brace (d)
Rob Gronkowski (o)
Ras-I Dowling (d)
Dont'a Hightower (d)
Aaron Dobson (o)
Jimmy Garrapolo (o)
Jordan Richards (d)

6 of the last 9 players chosen second by the Patriots have been defensive players

So, of the last 18 players the Patriots have taken with their top two picks in the draft, 14 have been on the defensive side of the ball. That's a whole lot of investing.

 

[PatriotReign]

Meriweather (d)
Mayo (d)
Chung (d)
McCourty (d)
Solder (o)
Jones (d)
Collins (d)
Easley (d)
Brown (d)


8 of the last 9 players chosen first by the Patriots have been defensive players.


Second players chosen during that time:

Kareem Brown (d)
Terrence Wheatley (d)
Ron Brace (d)
Rob Gronkowski (o)
Ras-I Dowling (d)
Dont'a Hightower (d)
Aaron Dobson (o)
Jimmy Garrapolo (o)
Jordan Richards (d)

6 of the last 9 players chosen second by the Patriots have been defensive players

So, of the last 18 players the Patriots have taken with their top two picks in the draft, 14 have been on the defensive side of the ball. That's a whole lot of investing.

I understand your point. If the choice was between having a marquee receiver or an elite pass rusher, shut down corner, or safety. I personally would prefer having a top 5 defense. I'd also be okay with an elite runner that can take some of the pressure off of Tom.

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand your point. If the choice was between having a marquee receiver or an elite pass rusher, shut down corner, or safety. I personally would prefer having a top 5 defense. I'd also be okay with an elite runner that can take some of the pressure off of Tom.

They had the corner. They let him go. That's after they let Talib get away.

 

[supafly]

O-line... makes me nervous. Secondary... right now just scares me.

If there's some way to reel in a guy like Evan Mathis things are pretty much solved, and probably better than last year when you consider the fact that Stork isn't a rookie anymore. I just don't see Belichick paying that kind of money, and possibly for good reason.

At the moment, I'd have: 1) Solder, 2) Wendell, 3) Stork, 4) Cannon, 5) Vollmer, 6) Jackson, 7) Mason, 8) Kline---but there's no doubt we need one more OT, especially if you count Cannon as an interior player as I do (possibly incorrectly). Either way, I personally prefer to see Cannon on the right side, no matter what.

Maybe we're able to snag one last player or two for TC competition and a shot at the team via camp cuts?

 

[supafly]

Steering the convo back to the receiver (OP), it's obvious that the hope was for a rookie draft pick to pan out, but it's also obvious that Belichick and the scouts aren't as good at this particular position as they are most others.

I recently re-read "War Room" and was a bit surprised to see that Belichick thought Julio Jones wasn't nearly as talented as everyone else. To take it one step further, he specifically pointed out how Jonathan Baldwin was a much more talented and polished receiver (strike two).

The addition of Moss in '07 was under the perfect circumstance, so I doubt that would happen that way again. I would've gladly paid a guy like Anquan Boldin 6-7m per year, as I think we're still in need of a big, physical threat more than the typical "speedy" receiver that most fans covet. Of course, that ship has long sailed.

 

[Ivan]

They had the corner. They let him go. That's after they let Talib get away.

Total crap. Talib and Revis were both overpaid and nothing was keeping Revis in NE.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The D right now has (as we've all said) the look of disruption at the front end as a substitute for high performance in the secondary. The present O keeps you in every game. The money has not flowed to the crazy high-paid positions (CB and WR) or even to a high-paid safety. Yet we will no doubt spend to the cap this year, as we have in other years. Cap guys please weigh in if any (or most) of the below is wrong... I am not very cap-smart... also, I have some questions in here...

The rule of 51 puts us under the 2015 cap at present with what, $10M+ to spend (in '15)? There's obviously room to maneuver here. (Thanks TB). I guess the question is who is worth the maneuvering, or whether that $10M is for in-season fill-ins.

Between Mankins, Revis, and Arrington - plus some hits from various others including a little bit of Wilfork - we're up to almost 10% dead money as of now for 2015 (about equal to TB's salary + prorated bonus, for perspective). Is that a lot or not? "Hard choices" (present vets with years left) will always generate dead money hits... I just don't know how much is a lot. Of course a present signing will relate more to future hits. With a pretty young team, I don't know what dead money potential in the future worries us.

What say our capologists? I am sure they've weighed in and I've just been too lazy to read. It seems that for the big name guys you have to have multi-year level certainty at a fairly reasonable cost, or you have to arrange an absorbable dead money hit - Revis being a good example of the latter (total 20M one-year rental - 15M to play, 5M to get rid of).

What's a "normal" dead money percentage? What's "normal" for the Pats around this point in the season (off-season)? By the end of last year it was 21%+ for players no longer playing, including IR, but a lot of that was Mayo getting hurt.

PS, poking around at the numbers, Gronk looks very affordable up to 2018-19, and for what we get out of him, he'll be worth the money then too (11M/12M), assuming he's still Gronking along.

 

[Oswlek]

If there's some way to reel in a guy like Evan Mathis things are pretty much solved, and probably better than last year when you consider the fact that Stork isn't a rookie anymore. I just don't see Belichick paying that kind of money, and possibly for good reason.

At the moment, I'd have: 1) Solder, 2) Wendell, 3) Stork, 4) Cannon, 5) Vollmer, 6) Jackson, 7) Mason, 8) Kline---but there's no doubt we need one more OT, especially if you count Cannon as an interior player as I do (possibly incorrectly). Either way, I personally prefer to see Cannon on the right side, no matter what.

Maybe we're able to snag one last player or two for TC competition and a shot at the team via camp cuts?

Aren't you forgetting Fleming? Or is he just that low on your list?

 

[fair catch fryar]

Don't get me wrong, the guys they have now are very good and effective, but I would like to see another WR here with the big play impact of Terry Glenn or Randy Moss. Yes we have that big play ability in our TE with Gronk, but to me you can never have enough weapons in your arsenal, and would just love to see that kind of impact wide receiver here. Do you guys see that happening at all at any point in the near future?

What would you be willing to pay more for? A shutdown corner or a big-play WR?

 

[Ring 6]

When one takes a 'minimum' salary, or after Brady retires/declines significantly (or maybe longer, if JAG can serve as a poor man's Brady for a while). Until then, you'll hear the crazy "don't need WRs!" nonsense being spouted again and again, because the homers either don't know, or don't remember, life without Brady/BB.

In other words, Belichick will continue to build the team intelligently and that will not include paying huge money for a WR.

 

[Rob0729]

Big time WRs are overrated. Deep threat WRs are definitely overrated. Look at the recent Super Bowl winners and none of them had an elite WR. Patriots? No. Seahawks? No. Ravens? No. Giants? No. The Packers are the last one to have anything close to an elite WR.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Today..i would rather have a shut down corner over a WR any day of the week...but i love D so

Now the Pats have a big time WR in Moss in 2007 for their SB run as we all know..but not many other teams have big time WRs and make the big game

QB and IMO DL and front 7 is a BIG key as to making the big game

 

[Rob0729]

Today..i would rather have a shut down corner over a WR any day of the week...but i love D so

Now the Pats have a big time WR in Moss in 2007 for their SB run as we all know..but not many other teams have big time WRs and make the big game

QB and IMO DL and front 7 is a BIG key as to making the big game

Ditto! Look at the top WRs and where their teams finished vs. the top CBs and where their teams finished. Hell, the Cardinals actually had a realistic shot at winning the NFL West with a few weeks left in the season with no QB or elite WR but one of the best CBs in the game.

 

[supafly]

Aren't you forgetting Fleming? Or is he just that low on your list?

No, I just forgot to include him. Good catch.

I'd have Kline as the last to get in at #9 then, not that my opinion means a damn thing.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I know. Let's draft an outside deep threat with our first pick in 2016

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Miguel did an excellent post on the 29th running down dead money, and mentions how the Pats compare across the league etc. Just reinvigorating this thread with yet another "Thanks Miguel" tacked on.

I think we're 8th in the league in dead money this year, if I'm remembering right. ($3+ million above the average.)

So, everything figures in. Clearly you've got to be disciplined at the high-spend positions (like WR)... with any luck, you're good at drafting them. We haven't been super-lucky that way except at QB.

There's an inherent flaw to fan lust for WRs: By the time they have a name and a reel, the chances are inherently higher of a flop, in terms of value (talking free agent WRs here). We generally go out and get guys like LaFell and then they "overperform." But when we start lusting after blue-chip #1s, special special talents... we're all chasing the memory of the Randy Moss deal.

Moss happened once. His rep was damaged and he needed to repair it. Nobody else would touch him. I actually remember being in the "no thanks" camp until we did it, proving once again that I Am Always Wrong (my hypothesis going in, when it comes to what the Pats actually do).

You know who we'd go after if they were available in FA? Probably Julian Edelman, before he was a top-100 player... Brandon LaFell... maybe Amendola? You get the picture. Last week I saw some props to Dobson's perormance in camp. Maybe he'll actually take a step up this year.

But you guys get the pic: a big-name guy wants to get paid. He wants to get paid now. If that doesn't work out, it's more dead money. If it does work out it's an indentation in the cap...

One Brady-era luxury has been a QB not trying to absolutely crush every other QB's compensation, but absolutely crushing their results. Another luxury has been that you can get a good receiver and turn him into a great one, or get a decent one and turn him into a good one. You don't need a receiver who gives you the catch radius of a two-car garage when you've got a QB who can put the ball through the old tire hanging on the rope, while it's swinging.

So here's hoping Jimmy G really is the second coming... we're getting close enough to that time that he's not just an idle afterthought, he's more like the heir apparent than the other backups we've seen. We all fear the on-field ripples... the initial money ripples will be "whew okay we get a cheap QB for a little while," but then we'll have to give him targets he can't miss, unless he's our Aaron Rogers.

Saturday core dump. Couldn't help it.