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When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BradyManny, Sep 24, 2012.

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  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    We've heard this phrase a lot in the last two weeks, along with several other cliches. "They made more plays." "We didn't execute." "Didn't do it when it counted." "Forget the refs, the Patriots could've won it on their own."

    On the Planet, I saw members longing for the days when the Patriots did, apparently, execute when it counted.

    Here's the thing with this kind of overwrought thinking. There are several things that fans overlook when making such sweeping, broad statements.

    1: No team ever has 100% execution. Ever.
    2: The other team is made up of paid professionals whose job it is to prevent your team from executing.
    3: The randomness factor that comes in having a 60 minute sample size, ranging from luck to officiating.

    Last night, specifically, we could be referring to officiating.

    I'm sure Greg Bedard will get unnaturally excited telling us how the offense couldn't run the 4-minute offense this week. Other pundits will be quick to tell us how this defense couldn't get off the field just like last year.

    But here's the thing. They still did enough to win. A lot less has changed then people want to think.

    The fact is, and it's a no-brainer, is putting up a W makes people forget a lot of things. A lot of mistakes, and a lot of failure in execution.

    Look back to the SB years. Did those teams execute 100% of the time? Did they execute when it mattered? Look at SB36, 38, 39. You see the offense fail in 4-minute type situations in each game, handing the ball back to the Rams & Eagles, and throwing a pick in the endzone against Carolina. You see the defense fail to get off the field and yield long scoring drives in the fourth quarter of each game, in some instances, twice (Rams, Panthers). You see a kicker miss two FGs he is normally automatic from (vs. Panthers). You see a fumble in the red zone from our QB (vs Eagles).

    And I'm sure, if you went back and re-watched the game, you'd see a dozen poorly executed plays on both sides of the ball that we'd have been bemoaning for weeks and months had the game ended differently.

    You see these things because no team is perfect in its execution, every team, win or lose, makes a pile of mistakes, and when two teams of comparable talent get together, "luck" (or rather, randomness) can come into play.

    We can sit here and hand-wring all week over the chance the offense had to put them away, or Arrington slipping, or McCourty's mistakes. But we'd be looking at those plays in a vacuum, and it would be a huge waste of time.

    The bottom line - and its embarrassing to the NFL - is that the New England Patriots defense had to play against a team with 5 downs last night. I'm not accusing the officials of bias, mind you, purely incompetence.

    It's impossible to evaluate the defense's play when on at least three occasions it got off the field and was put back on by an egregious call. And in all three cases, the Ravens offense put up a score. These were completely game-changing calls that radically changed the make-up of the game.

    The Patriots played fine last night. Most times, that kind of execution gets you a win. Last night, it didn't. Mistakes happen, plays don't get executed, corners get beat, corners drop picks, linemen miss blocks. It happens every single game, win or lose, and it's a waste of time to lose sleep over them this week: because they weren't the reason they lost. They just weren't. They were just the same mistakes that happen to every team, every game, win or lose.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  2. RelocatedPatFan

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    Whilr I mostly agree with you (some parts I skimmed through), the mediots will point out that the # of penalties and the yards worked in the Patriots favor.

    They will not tell you the "effect" of the penalties that were called and how it affected the players (especially in our defensive secondary) for subsequent plays. Additionally, it seemed the calls went agaisnt the defense (almost exclusively in the end) and the offense got off free (holding/offensive pass interference, ...).

    Still, you gotthe feeling that the refs were concerned with getting out of Baltimore alive.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  3. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    I could not agree with you more. Calling pass interference on a first down drop is much less damaging than a five yard illegal contact penalty on 2nd and 15 and 3rd and 6.
  4. Bobs My Uncle

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    All I know is that, penalties aside (I know this is challenging for many), the Pats had a chance to win this by closing it out on both sides of the ball in the dying moments of this game and they failed ................. yet again!
  5. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    I don't think this is even strong enough. Most of the penalties against the Pats defense gave the Ravens a fresh set of downs not just an extra snap. Watching the officials systematically use short yardage, automatic first down penalties to bail the Ravens out of bad down and distances truly makes you wonder if this was mere incompetence. As has been stated, if you didn't watch the game you'd think the Ravens were the ones getting hosed, but when it comes down to it 2-3 of the penalties against the Ravens really hurt them while 6-8 against the Pats really hurt.
  6. Jackson 2

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    Couldn't agree more about getting out alive. All I could think of as the flags were flying for the Ravens in really crucial situations was the Roman coliseum days when those poor bastards' fates were determined by the crowd's thumbs up or down. Those guys were scared shytless. The crowd was literally dictating the calls.
  7. FCB02062

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    This was true of the Indianapolis rivalry - a tremendous % of their accepted penalties rewarded them with a fresh set of downs, as did Baltimore last night. As a matter of fact, for several years Indianapolis had the most first downs by penalty in the league, especially after Polian got the rules changed.

    But, the fact still remains, the Patriots had a chance to win the game on offense - please, please, please spare us the inside hand offs to Woodhead on 2nd and 8 - and again on defense....
  8. ivanvamp

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    There were 14 accepted penalties against the Ravens for 135 yards, compared with 10 penalties for 83 yards against the Patriots.

    Thus, the Pats held a "penalty yardage edge" of 52 yards. That's a huge disparity.

    I'm not saying the Pats didn't get hosed on a few calls (Mayo PI, McCourty holding (!!!!!!!), Spikes illegal contact), or that the Ravens couldn't have been called for even more penalties, but still.....14 penalties for 135 yards is a LOT of penalties, especially if the home crowd was "dictating the calls".
  9. KontradictioN

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    Nobody is making a claim that the Patriots lost and the Ravens won because Baltimore executed at 100% and we didn't.

    The Patriots offense was handed the ball and gifted multiple calls at the end of the game to close it out and couldn't. The defense was handed the field to stop the Ravens offense from driving on it. The McCourty holding penalty was a killer, yes, but the defense still had multiple opportunities to make a stop and could not. The Ravens executed better down the stretch and that's why they won the game. The team said as much after the game as well with Wilfork expressing his thoughts about the refs but ultimately saying they needed to play better to help the offense (a unit which made mistakes themselves) out.
  10. PP2

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    #12 Jersey

    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    What's a lot worse is the "effect" of the non-calls. I wish to congratulate John Harbaugh on coaching his team up to hold away, to hold as much as they could, knowing well the quality of the replacement refs. I never saw so much holding as I did last night.

    The only satisfaction I will gain from this is watching the Rat****s lose on Thursday.
  11. Patriot_in_NY

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    ......... which predictably started happening after a 10-minute BS chant from the stands (the loudest I ever heard on TV). Calls were evenly terrible before that, after them, it was one-sided bad calls. That's not coincidence or even bad calls.
  12. Palm Beach Pats Fan

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    The last holding call on McCourty was one of the few ones that were correctly called.

    Far worse was edge rushers like Ninko getting tackled by the throat by guys like Oher, on critical downs, and there being no call. Ever.

    The 70,000 fans screaming "bull$*it" at the top of their lungs made the refs scared. Mere bad officiating became "From this point forward, to get us out of here in one piece, the Ravens can do no wrong"
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  13. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    Exactly what calls were the offense gifted, Kontra? The one where Webb was grabbing Welker by the neck all the way down the field? Come on, that commentary by Collingsworth was him just hammering the officials even more and trying to get them on a technicality. That was obviously a penalty. On the other hand, Ray Lewis got away with murder (pun intended) while covering Gronk on several occasions.

    The Ravens didn't execute any better down the stretch. Flacco threw what should've been two picks in the final two drives. He just kept getting bailed out by the Patriots corners or the refs. Their field goal kicker damn near missed a 27 yard kick to win (heck, honestly, he might've even missed it).

    Wilfork said they need to play better because he's a player, and making excuses is foolish. Especially for a Patriot player. We're fans. We don't have to worry about the repercussions of what we say. We can recognize the obvious: the officials dictated the outcome of that game last night.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  14. BradyManny

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    This.

    After the Ngata call, the officials were remarkably pro-Baltimore all night. The call against Edelman that followed was an embarrassment, and it started a string of awful calls in the home crowd's favor.
  15. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    How do you even get a chance to close out when 2 plays designed for Gronkowski aren't there because Rey Lewis tackled him downfield.

    How do you get a chance to close put on defense when you get phantom secondary penalties, Jones and Ninkovich being hogtied by Oher on very drop back.
  16. Patriot_in_NY

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    Yeah, true Kontra, but you have to admit..... Cunningham and Jones were getting all but raped on any attempt to rush the passer. Now, I get that offensive line play and holding go somewhat hand in hand, but only to a level.

    Any team will score on you, in ANY situation, if you are allowed to tackle two of our best pass-russers out of the play EVERY down. It basically gave Flacco a free throw every down. Basically it becomes a 7on7 drill with Flacco wearing a red jersey.
  17. Bobs My Uncle

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    Excuses ................
  18. KontradictioN

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    Is that why they continued to make calls against the Ravens defense the last time the Patriots offense had the ball? The horrible calls went both ways. Such is life when you're dealing with replacement officials.
  19. FirstAndGoal

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    The problem with the refs last night wasn't what they did to the Pats... it's what they did to everyone.


    They were so bad, I couldn't tell you if the Patriots would have won or lost by more if the refs were good. They completely violated the integrity of the game. I've never used the refs for an excuse and I won't now but last night was surreal and I'm sure if the Ravens lost, they would be complaining as well... the refs just sucked.
  20. KontradictioN

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    re: When "we didn't deserve to win" isn't accurate

    The bolded plays right into my point. In your last paragraph, you should also note that Wilfork did slam the officials for making it so that the Pats secondary couldn't play the same game that they had in the first two weeks. So, like me, he admits that the refs were horrible but that the Pats could have executed better and that, if they had, they would have won the game.
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