Welcome to PatsFans.com

When the looter is the government

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, May 21, 2012.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,725
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +154 / 7 / -13

    Sometimes the government acts likes a criminal enterprise. Trying to seize the assets of private citizens.

    When government is the looter - The Washington Post


    WaPo OpEd on this same case.

    Motel owner faces asset forfeiture despite innocence - The Washington Post


    Report on how the government abuses these laws top steal property from private citizens, absolutely outrageous.

    http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/other_pubs/assetforfeituretoemail.pdf
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  2. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,952
    Likes Received:
    112
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -2

    I think we had a thread about this particular case a while back, didn't we?

    Regardless, yeah, these asset forfeiture laws w/regard to drugs are horrible. Drug laws are bad enough, but these laws give governments and police departments clear financial incentives to exaggerate or simply make up allegations. Police department wants to expand their SWAT team? Let's take some stuff in "drug busts." and hey, with all our shiny new toys, maye we can go out and bust more people and take more of their assets.

    Oh, you say people can just get their assets back if the charges are dropped? Not so fast. In fact, there have been many cases where the alleged perps have been offered to have their charges dropped if thye forfeited the assets that were seized. No chance of abuse there... :rolleyes:
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,395
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +306 / 3 / -13

    This is the kind of crap that spawn revolutions....doesn't even sound like the USA, does it?
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,318
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +242 / 8 / -26

    Everyone gets their depends in a bunch over this, but are silent when the Republic of Texas continues to execute innocent men and women..

    Property is more important than people..
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,395
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +306 / 3 / -13

    Who are you "Lecturing" here Darryl?

    And who exactly are you to lecture anyone? just asking....
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,629
    Likes Received:
    369
    Ratings:
    +783 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey

    Been seeing this for years in Rhode Island and to be honest I don't blame the government. The hardest thing for a town or city to deal with is neglected property. Out of state landlords, people profiting from illegal activities and turning a blind eye to it is not acceptable. It raises the coasts and use of local police and sometimes fire departments. Adds to neighborhood blight and reduced property values.

    Owning property requires a certain level of responsibility to the properties community ... if someone loses to their property in such a fashion they have no one to blame except themselves.

    Look at this place - do you think it's possible the owner did not see cars coming and going all the time. the 30 arrests are a drip in the bucket compared to all the activity that probably went on in this joint. The 30 arrests were the cases they sought to pursue you can count on that.

    Come on Icypatriot aren't you being a bit harsh ... perhaps but property owners looking the other way are a serious black eye on communities. Other businesses do not want to be around these places, crime around these places increases, prostitution increases and all the rest.

    Screw them ... and others like them ... it's all about responsibility and they neglected theirs. The woe is me I didn't know routine is lame. One look at these people and even a half a moron would have known what was going on there.

    Providence RI made it a point to rid themselves of such businesses in the 80's and 90's and it made a huge difference in improving the lives of the people who lived in those areas. Personal responsibility is what makes communities great - money cannot do it without responsibility.


    [​IMG]
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  7. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,952
    Likes Received:
    112
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -2

    Icy, that's the job of police, and it doesn't require govt seizures of private property from people who committed no crimes.

    As for other instances of blight, again, it's not the government's place. In the cases where govt has used eminent domain for "urban renewal," I'd be interested in seeing success rates. There almost always much more serious underlying issues, aren't there? Is a property owner supposed to sink exec more money into property in a declining area -- and more to the point, why is it the govt's place to tell them to do so?
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,629
    Likes Received:
    369
    Ratings:
    +783 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey

    On their slim budgets you really think they have time to watch this place 24/7 - you are naive to think so. These are low level drug roaches ... police spend their time and money going after the bigger fish.

    Money ??? How about time and commitment? These people are as bad as the roaches that infest their place. Chico you are a bit naive here. If we have police in the forum they can tell you about this and more. These people were making money 2nd hand off the drug trade and they knew it and only someone naive to how it all works would not see it.

    sucks for them and all people who made much money when the mills were booming. But the jobs are gone and that is the reality. These type of places are havens for drugs, prostitution and deviants who don't want an address to hide from the government for a variety of reasons. These places serve themselves and are a blight on their communities. Nobody would miss them if they were all knocked down.
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,725
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +154 / 7 / -13


    30 people over a number of years.

    Innocent until proven guilty?

    There is no proof these people knew anything was going on.

    How may Hotels would be seized if the charge was the rooms being rented by Hookers and Johns?





    Come on Icypatriot aren't you being a bit harsh ... perhaps but property owners looking the other way are a serious black eye on communities. Other businesses do not want to be around these places, crime around these places increases, prostitution increases and all the rest.

    Screw them ... and others like them ... it's all about responsibility and they neglected theirs. The woe is me I didn't know routine is lame. One look at these people and even a half a moron would have known what was going on there.

    Providence RI made it a point to rid themselves of such businesses in the 80's and 90's and it made a huge difference in improving the lives of the people who lived in those areas. Personal responsibility is what makes communities great - money cannot do it without responsibility.


    [​IMG][/QUOTE]


    The government shouldn't profit from stealing the property of others. conflict of interest.
  10. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,952
    Likes Received:
    112
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -2

    You can call me naive all you want, but you're reading things into my post that I didn't say.

    Where did I say watch the place 24/7? Oh, I didn't? That's right...

    If the crimes were so low-level, why the need for the government to seize the property?

    Do you have any evidence that government- sponsored urban renewal works? So you seize the property. What comes next? Shutting down the motel doesn't solve any of the real problems.

    And who cares if they benefit 2nd hand from prostitution and drugs? Personally, I don't care about the crimes themselves. But if we apply your principle here, where do you draw the line? Car dealerships? Nightclubs? Hell, Vegas should be rid of all private ownership.


  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,952
    Likes Received:
    112
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -2

    Icy, if 13 and I can agree wholeheartedly on this, you must be in the wrong. ;)
  12. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,323
    Likes Received:
    244
    Ratings:
    +391 / 6 / -9

    Yeah I'm kind of with 13 and Chico on this one - I could live without forfeiture laws. I remember when they first came out they infuriated me.

    But, on the other hand, Icy, I have to say the phrase "even half a moron" kind of tickled me. It's sort of a "found art" thing... I would never think of that one myself but it was funny
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,629
    Likes Received:
    369
    Ratings:
    +783 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey

    Chico if you want to remove the bees then you must remove and/or relocate the hives. In all seriousness your naive here ... if you knew more about how slugs operate you would understand. These owners can cry foul but in business for that many years they knew well what was going on. Different cars coming and going all night would be the first clue ... I mean hotels are for sleeping and resting and last I heard they do not come with revolving doors. People that frequent these places usually have an MBA in making money street style.
  14. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,629
    Likes Received:
    369
    Ratings:
    +783 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey


    :rofl: .... good one Chico. ;)
  15. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,629
    Likes Received:
    369
    Ratings:
    +783 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey


    I have more of them ... I'll dig more out.

    In the meantime here's one more good one and don't ask for the logic of it.

    Used to run small errands to earn street cash for card playing Italian dudes (a.k.a. mafia wannabee types or maybe real ???) when I was younger ... got to watch them play cards and the lingo was always :rofl:

    Next time you hear someone talking crap tell them
    "you're talking like someone with a paper azz".

    The look on the person's face you would tell is priceless ...
    the logic of the statement is inane at best.:p:p:p
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,952
    Likes Received:
    112
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -2

    You keep using the word naive when nothing I'm saying us naive.

    I understand there was criminal activity. I understand the owners may well have known about the activity.

    What I'm saying is:

    1) seizure laws create bad incentives even when dealing with people who possibly broke laws
    2) In this case the property owners did not break laws. (you brought up money laundering -- if that's going on, charge them and prove it)
    3) you're the one who said the criminals are too low level for the police to spend time on -- if it's too low level for the police it should be too low level for govt to take assets
    4) I'm skeptical that govt efforts at urban renewal tend to work -- any evidence that they do?
    5). Simply taking assets won't solve anything

    Basically it looks like the easy way out to me. Don't prove a crime, don't fix any underlying problems.

    Plus, bad precedent, slippery slope, etc.
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,952
    Likes Received:
    112
    Ratings:
    +194 / 2 / -2

    Btw, prostitution is not legal and Vegas. (and neither are drugs)
  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,395
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +306 / 3 / -13

    And there is plenty of both going on in all the major Vegas hotels. Should "hole in the wall" hotels/motels be treated differently than those on the Vegas strip?

    Of course they shouldn't be!
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,693
    Likes Received:
    157
    Ratings:
    +495 / 2 / -9

    They do the same thing when little kids and old ladys are shot dead by the Gangbangers who can't shoot straight.

    All we care about is money, power, slobbering and war.

    THE END IS NEAR

    :bricks:
    "pack up your troubles in your old kit bag and smile"
  20. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,318
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ratings:
    +242 / 8 / -26

    This is interesting unintended consequence of ill conceived laws, an offshoot of Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 that was enacted while Ronnie Reagan was president...

    Under the guise of law and order, much like we did with Homeland Security, the long term unintended consequences are not really thought out..

    The Marshal's service now controls over 1 billion dollars in assets that have been seized under this law..

    Before they pass a law, need to plan for all contingencies.. rather than the "feel good", "atta boy" approach..

    U.S. Marshals Service, Asset Forfeiture

    .

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>