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When has this happened before?? AND how was it dealt with???

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Pats726, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Just asking a question on an historical note...as the US is having many fronts both militarily and diplomatically
    1----The war in Iraq that is turning into a quagmire
    2----The war in Afghanistan as that country is reverting to drug lords and away from what was accomplished..getting worse
    3----North Korea's growing more nuclear with longer range missles
    4----Iran's growing threat of becoming nuclear
    5----The Israeli war with the Palestinians Gaza, Lebanon..growing like wild fire out of control
    And besides the "war on terror", there are numerous other hot spots that could flare up quickly....
    My question is when if ever has the US been facing so many different threats all at once??? Has this happened before?? And who dealt with it and how did they do in dealing with so many balls in the air juggling??
    Forget the politics of this..it is scary..especially with Bush leading the charge. Is he capable of dealing with all of these?? WIll he be able to?? I really wonder IF he can..or does he just see it all as the "Rapture" cometh.
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes that is scary, but imganie this nightmare, having Kerry/Gore deal with it.
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This coupled with the massive deficit, no resolution on an equitable way to deal with immigration, under funded pensions (Both SS and municipal/state), an economy that favors outsourcing and underpaying of workers .... makes me very concerned for my children and grandchildren. I am somewhat of a history buff, but not sure that besides the Civil War has so many issues confronted this country at one given time. All the while we have a president who is the great decider and is always right, a congress who is more concerned about getting re-elected than taking care of this great country and a very maligned judiciary. All the while this country is polarized and everything is framed as politically right or politically left... something needs to happen here, and what it is ain't exactly clear.
  4. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I didn't even wish to get into the massive problems internally...which makes it even MORE difficult..and??? That makes it seem even like a larger hole...I've tried to see if there are anything close and...NOT really. SUre there have been foreign threats, WW2..BUT, the country was united it it's opposition to Hitler and Japan..far from the turmoil that is brewing in this country. I agree...divided..and made MORE so by the so-called 'decider" who claimed how he wished to unite the country. You step out of line, the man come and take you away.....
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2005
  5. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    Well, the period between 1964 and 1975 was marked by the Vietnam war, even stronger polarization inside the country than we have now, the Civil Rights struggle (with its own violent side-effects), the rise of the youth culture, the continuation of the contest between the Soviet Union and the US and Watergate.

    Some openly worried, at the time, whether or not the US could survive this kind of stress and division, marked on one end with the Cuban Missile Crisis and on the other end with the first Presidential resignation in US history, and peppered with events such as the riots at the Democratic Convention in Chicago in 1968 and the shooting of Kent State students, as they protested the war, by the Ohio National Guard.

    Is this comparable to the current situation? Not exactly, but then history never repeats itself, regardless of the old saying, at least not precisely.

    As for the national mood, having lived as an adult through both periods, I think it was worse then than it is now. Perhaps we have become more inured to it.

    Whether or not Bush can deal with all of the current crises is almost beside the point. The point is, can WE deal with the stress that comes from reading the morning's headlines? And, by the way, you forgot global warming and high gas prices. I personally think we can and will, although we will--but not with any particular grace.
  6. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    That is without a doubt the single funniest and at the same time dumbest thing you have ever said on this board.

    That list 726 came up with is just wishful (how pathetic) DNC over the top talking points.
  7. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    If you disagree with 726's list, EaglesLand, why not point out the errors? You may find blanket condemnation satisfying, but in my experience, it rarely wins debates.
  8. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    1. Iraq war is not a quagmire.

    2. Kharzi's government is very strong and leading Afghanistan in the right direction.

    3. NK couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a missle, and are issolated, if nessacary thier Nuke facilities can be taken out easily.

    4. Israel is doing what a country that puts up with what they do, finally having enough and it is about time their terrorist nieghbors anr finally getting what they deserve.


    See making a list isn't so hard.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  9. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Oh I see , only left wingers are granted the right to pull lists out there ***** and claim them as fact?

    Once again you have proven to be a senile old man who is a drain on the tax payers and are a sucker from the government nipple, you can't make it on your own so you need the welfare pandering democrats in office. Now you will sell everyone security down the drain for it. Sick bastard, you need help.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  10. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    From the American Heritage Dictionary:

    "quag·mire (kwăg'mīr', kwŏg'-) pronunciation
    n.

    1. Land with a soft muddy surface.
    2. A difficult or precarious situation; a predicament."

    Clearly, Iraq does not fit definition 1. But, EaglesLand, can you honestly say it doesn't fit definition 2?

    As for Kharzi's government, from what I've read, he governs Kabul and not much more. And unless you disbelieve all the reports, the Taliban are gaining strength in the south. Also, the "virtue police" are back, ordering women to cover their heads, etc. For me, this is not the right direction, although you may disagree.

    North Korea: They haven't had a missile success--yet. But they could have one tomorrow. Anyhow, missiles aren't the only way to deliver atomic bombs. Would it be impossible to put one in a ship and send it to one of America's coastal cities?

    Israel: While I understand why Israeli is reacting the way it is, this seems to me a major detour from the road to peace. You don't agree?

    NEM: Wouldn't this have been a better answer to Eagleland than questioning his intelligence and maturity?
  11. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    You post the most hateful, foul mouthed name calling messages on this board and you say that about me? Go to hell, NEM.
  12. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    This from the guy who considers Saddam Hussein the duly elected President of Iraq.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2005
  13. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I would think that Mainefan's comment to PFIEL would aslo apply to your post.

    I'm not speaking for Mainefan.

    Edit: He just did while I was posting this.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  14. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Come on, MaineFan, you know darn well that when people refer to Iraq or Vietnam or whatever as a "quagmire" they aren't sitting there with a dictionary in their hands saying "I only mean it is a predicament or a precarious situation."
  15. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Amen to that. Let it never be forgotten that the Palestinians, Hezbollah, Iranians, etc, will stop at nothing short of the complete elimination and/or annihilation of the State of Israel. Any talk of the "Palestinian people just want their land and then we will have peace" is just a complete load of bullcrap.

    Furthermore, let it not be forgotten that these people are very much in bed with each other. As noted in today's Globe, it is not a coincidence that the Hezbollah acted on the same day Iran's decision was due to be presented to the UN.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Israel uses this current skirmish as an excuse to finally attack Iran's nuclear reactors. If they decide to do that, then may the Lord be with them on their noble and righteous mission.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  16. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    Yes, QuiGon. In common current usage, "quagmire" has come to refer to a long, drawn-out, apparently unwinable war. I don't know if you think Iraq fits that description, but I think you have to admit that it doesn't seem wildly unreasonable to use that word in connection with what's happening there.
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well as reported wiht links on another thread in the last month Iraqi's have taken the lead in 90% of operations with 33% involving no US assistanence. The result is 9 (the lowest rate in 2+ years) US fatalities to date this month. That would seem to speak against a quagmire.
  18. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I would say it is meant clearly as having negative connotations, wouldn't you...? Please don't tell me that you call the War in Iraq a "quagmire" you simply mean it to be a "difficult or precarious situation".

    NOTE: I am not addressing the point of whether Iraq is a quagmire or not. I am just saying that when someone refers to it as a quagmire, they are using that word with a much more negative connotation that what the dictionary definition might say.

    EDIT: I think Mainefan has provided above an excellent definition of what people mean when they use the word "quagmire" to describe the War.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  19. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Um, do you ever know what the word "duly" means...?
    I agree. It's amazing how shameful the left was then and how shameful the left is now. Here's a question I know you won't answer: Do you consider Jane Fonda a traitor to her country who should be executed...?
  20. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I don't want to argue whether or not Iraq is a quagmire (another thread for another day) and I honestly think you have some good points in your post here. While I may not agree entirely, you are correct in saying it is not "wildly unreasonable" to use that word.

    I have definitely admitted that while I support the war, it has not been a well run campaign and the blame for that lies at the highest levels of government. And I thank you for agreeing that the common usage of "quagmire" goes beyond what dictionary.com might define it as.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  21. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    I liked the words, the people in the administration used and those who backed them.

    Iraqi oil will pay for iraqi reconstruction.
    Mission accomplished
    Two years tops
    Wildly successful
    High confidence that wmd's will be found
    We will be greeted as liberators
    East west north and south
    Now compare those statements frrom the administration, and look at the situation today and think of a word.(((((((((((((FUBAR)))))))))))))))
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2005
  22. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    No I do not.
    LOL..!! Boy, I sure called it when i said you wouldn't answer my question. Now I answered yours, it's time for you to answer mine: Do you consider Jane Fonda to be a traitor..? Yes or no, NEM. It's a simple question. Don't hedge your answer with "what she did was wrong". Was it treason or not...?

    Have the courage to answer a very simple question.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  23. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    You've asked that exact question before in another thread and I responded to it. Please research that conversation, because I am sick of you simply asking the exact same thing time and again just because you don't like the answer.
  24. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I disagree, with the emergence of the media and internet, we are bombarded from both sides and although I felt alienated in the late 60's the polarization of that time pales to what is going on right now. Everything right now is labeled either right or left,nothing in the middle. If something happens in Hollywood, it is the left's fault if something happens to the environment it is the right's fault on and on. There are massive problems both internally and externally, and do not see anyone who can lead us out of it, least of all the current administration. All I see is further polarization which somehow serves the incumebency, and which I can not understand from a man and party who promised to bring us together.
  25. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Oh my, what a coward. Can't even give a straightforward answer to a very simple question.
  26. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Only in the world according to NEM is "I don't know if it's treason or not..." considered a straightforward answer. All I'm doing is asking your opinion, nemmy boy... It isn't like I am asking for the average annual rainfall of the Amazon basin.
    I will not answer your question until you have the courage to answer mine. Do you believe in your opinion that Jane Fonda committed treason by her actions..? You are awfully quick to throw that word around with absolute certaintly regrading George Bush but when it comes to Jane Fonda, all of a sudden you say "I don't know if it's treason or not....."

    Sounds to me like you don't really know what treason is, only that you're sure that whatever it is, Bush has done it.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  27. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    GJAJ15, I'm just more optimistic than you are...dunno why. I think I'm hard-wired.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2005
  28. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    What Crises????

    So you don't see those as crises??? you are an idiotic ostrich..PLEASE...get your head out of you a****!!
  29. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Unfortunately many responded to what I said instead of the MAIN point ALL these international crises...FORGET what I said..If I had KNOWN a few comments were going to have MOST miss the point..I would have left them out..My concern was with all the things going on...internationally!! And few have answered that..the big picture question..whether Bush can deal with it all or not....Whether it is a quagmire or not..US troops are in Iraq and will be for the future..tied up there....Afghanistan is detiriorating..with warlords more and more taking control of areas...FAR from how it was some time ago. Those are NOT points that can be argued...only someone blind would think it is all great there...Add the two nuclear possible threats in NKorea and Iran...as well as the escalating Isralei situaton and you have a LOT of different international problems. One can't deny THAT at all!! The question is can Bush deal with it all??? Or will it get a LOT worse????
    Mainefan.....as far as the 60s goes...I think internally, it was far worse..but I am not sure it is more polarized today...much different then as people were protesting and in the streets oppenly opposed to what Johnson/Nixon were doing. There are fewer protests..a sort of rage that is more personal..not organized..but I think deeper in some ways. But the problems internationally are worse now..NO question...Iraq is not Vietnam..with 100+ dead a week...and the draft...terrorists were not involved as Korea/Iran and nukes..many different things now..I think there is less hope now as well..no leader that can do anything..too much cynicism..and more rage!! Less tolerance..maybe even more apathy..Not sure...Maybe a deeper hole...HARDER to get out of..
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006
  30. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Re: What Crises????

    No I believe in what we are doing in Iraq, and I think it is going a lot better than you obviously do. Of course I don't take everything the media feeds me as gospel I will listen to those who are on the ground and not just trying to get a canidate elected.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2006

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