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When did we ever run the Amoeba Offense?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PittPatriot, Jan 31, 2009.

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  1. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    The buzzword in Denver this past week was Josh McDaniel's "Amoeba Offense" and how the Broncos are making a shift away from Shanahan's system (obviously).

    I don't ever recall the Pats running this offense under Josh McD. Is this just something contrived to get some pub or excitement for the new regime?

    I searched the forum to see if anyone had posted regarding this (the news is a few days old) but couldn't find anything. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  2. PatsFanInVa

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    I thought it was the salminella offense... it's a spread, but it'll kill ya.
     
  3. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Well whatever he wants to call it what matters is if it works. And it always works better if you have good personnel. With Cutler, Royal, and Marshall, I think he has some good pieces to work with.
     
  4. Rob0729

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    I have never heard this term before, but when did McDaniels not run this offense. I think McDaniels' biggest strength was adapting the offense to the personnel he had and to attack the weaknesses of the opposing defenses. Remember the Vikings game a few years back where they had the best run defense in the league and he had Brady pick them apart with the passing game. Or either the Jacksonville or San Deigo playoff games in the 2007 where the Pats completely different offenses to beat each team.

    Since Belichick took over the team, the staple of this team has always been adaptabilty. People always marvelled how the Pats would revise their offense and defense to adapt to the talent they had and the opponent they played. People always said that was why they are so hard to prepare for. It was like that under Weis and Crennel and still is/was under McDaniels and Pees.

    I have never heard the term Amoeba Offense before, but I saw it implemented virtually every week of the season at least since 2001.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  5. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Amoeba offense is not the most flattering imagery but it's a lot better than the 'Chuck and Duck' lol. Bonus points to who can name the coach that coined that phrase.
     
  6. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Buddy Ryan, right? I believe he was insulting fellow coordinator Kevin Gilbride at the time.
     
  7. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    "Amoeba Offense" .... eh... whatever. JMcD couldn't very well call it the "Belichick Offense" I guess. :D
     
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Amoeba are .........Simple
     
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    We ran the exact opposite of an amoeba or chameleon "Charlie Weiss" style offense. McDaniels ran the "everyone knows what's coming and it works great in the regular season but not in the playoffs" McDaniels offense.

    We ran the SAME 10 plays over and over again, mostly with the shotgun 3WR set.

    Every single game you knew how many passes Welker would get thrown, Moss, and the running back carries in which situations.

    McDaniels is horrible at in-game adjustments or deception or self scouting, by half time my friends and I could predict where the ball was going before the snap for most games.

    ____________________

    It is absolutely hilarious that McDaniels claimed to run an amoeba offense. The man has no shame.

    He ran the exact opposite of a chameleon offense. He is good at finding 10 plays and running them over and over NO MATTER WHAT.

    He was lucky enough to have HOF talent that could execute even when the defense knew what was coming, but he won't have as much luck with lesser talent in Denver.

    _________________________

    [New Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels is throwing out Mike Shanahan's west coast offense and installing an offense similar to what the Patriots run, dubbed the "Amoeba Offense", known for its ability to adapt to its own personnel, or adjust to a defense. "Our system is very unique," McDaniels said. "There are not a lot of branches off a tree that uses this system - It's not the same each week. It won't be the same. It doesn't fall into a specific category like the West Coast."]

    Who are you fooling, McDaniels?
    The offense did not change week to week, you ran the exact same formations and plays over and over. Look at his play chart totals, he loves the 3WR shotgun plays.

    The biggest criticism from spacecrime and I on McDaniels over the years has been his utter predictability and refusal to adapt during games.

    That has basically been his biggest flaw and recognized by multiple posters here.

    We NEVER ran an amoeba offense under McDaniels
     
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  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    [​IMG]
     
  11. BradyFTW!

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    Hahaha, I was waiting for this response. The good old "he ran the same 10 plays over and over and EVERYONE knew it was coming." Hey maverick, at some point are you going to take a step back and wonder what everyone else knows that you don't?
     
  12. KontradictioN

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    ...you are aware that "those same 10 formations" spawned the greatest offense in NFL history right?
     
  13. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    yeah i was expecting this response. same 10 plays ..stupid teams couldnt stop 10 plays and we went 16-0.
    the idea of the offense is to score points. people forget that in the weiss yrs we won games 9-6 ,13-10 a lot .
    Iam sure with our D as of lst yr, BB even if he had weiss he would asked him to adapt to this new shotgun style offense which clearly BB had worked on getting incorporated after working with urban meyer.
     
  14. stinkypete

    stinkypete In the Starting Line-Up

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    Are we seriously having this discussion?

    In 2006 the Patriots managed to win 12 games and almost went to the Super Bowl with a WR corps of Caldwell, Gaffney, Brown and Jackson, not to mention an ineffective running game.

    In 2007 the Patriots were the greatest offense in league history. 'Nuff said.

    In 2008 the Patriots turned a guy who hadn't started a game this decade into a star. They also built one of the league's top rushing games out of Sammy Morris, Kevin Faulk, Lamont Jordan and BJGE.

    McDaniels does have a weakness here and there. IMO, he sticks stubbornly to his game plan and does not make adjustments when something isn't working. I think his ability to lead an elite offense under 2 QBs, with nameless RB and WR corps, and to adjust to roster turnover and injuries speaks for itself.

    I think McDaniels has some to learn, but he will be the best coach to branch off the Belichick tree. The passing offense he is inheriting (Cutler, Marshall, Royal, Sheffler, Graham, Clady) is borderline elite, and they will be in prime position to draft a top RB if they so choose.
     
  15. reflexblue

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    How many plays did Lombardy run with the Packers 6-10? They just ran them so well no one could stop them. Evan as Lombardi dared other teams to do it.
     
  16. SVN

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    we had this discussion long before when mcdaniels left with the same arguments. You will now hear how we havent won any SB in the last 4yrs which is somehow because of Mcd completely.
     
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    ... which is the entire point. McDaniels is good at offense, like Mike Martz is good at offense, meaning they have a good system but are horrible at adjusting and basically run the same thing over and over, which gets STUFFED by good D-coordinators in the playoffs.

    You won't hear Martz trying to claim he runs a chameleon offense, everyone knows he runs an offense that is heavily dependent on slants, in cuts, and a RB who can catch. McDaniels runs a 3WR shotgun offense for the majority of his plays. To try to pretend he doesn't, is just too funny. EVERYONE knows this guy's schtick. McDaniels runs the opposite of an adapting offense.

    And just like Martz, he won't do jack without HOF talent just like Martz had with the Rams and McDaniels had in NE.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  18. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Yep. And 2 of the 3 best modern defenses (BB's being the third) are the Tampa 2, which does the same predictable thing over and over, and the Lebeau's highly variable and deceptive defense in Pittsburgh.
     
  19. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    How does that relate to McDaniels claiming to not running a predictable, set offense, when it is blatantly obvious that he does? Why is he trying to pretend he runs some sort of amoeba, chameleon offense week to week when he doesn't?

    Also, look at the proteges of coaches who have gone off from famous systems. Dungy came up with the Tampa 2, his proteges like Herm Edwards have tanked. Bill Walsh's assistants have had some success, because his system was so revolutionary. But Belichick has no set system, his system is game planning and adapting week to week, which is something McDaniels is NOT good at. So... things aren't looking too good for McKid since he won't have Tom Cool and an all star offense at every position to bail him out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  20. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    It's not obvious to me at all.

    I won't pretend to understand all the dynamics of play-calling surprises. Best example: Much of Patriot fandom knew that as the Patriots were marching for a TD in the Carolina Super Bowl, if they got it they'd go for a 2-point conversion and the play call would be a direct snap to Faulk. Yet Carolina seemed surprised by the play ...

    I think you're wrong on four levels.

    First, McDaniels obviously has very different offensive gameplans from week to week. Denying that is utterly ridiculous.

    Second, the Ameoba name would be justifed just by that. After all, ameobas can take any shape, but they change shape fairly slowly.

    Third, I think you overstate his predictability.

    Fourth, I think you're wrong to assume that being predictable is automatically bad.
     
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