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What's up with Maroney?


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Good summary. I'm partial to 1 and 7. I wish I could find the long ago analysis/speculation that someone thoughtful posted that cited possible reasons why Maroney had probems catching passes, therefore the coaches don't use him that way. I really think that Josh McD needs to find a way to get the kid the ball in space. He's (J McD) geting paid a megabuck or more. Be creative.

Sometimes Maroney reminds me of the quarterback in 'Friday Night Lights' (the movie), how they think all he needs to do is hand the ball off and then the star RB gets injured. It's reversed, I think Josh just saw Maroney's problems as a low priority since we had the best passing attack in the league... which is no longer true.
 
Troy was just commenting on LoMo's OOB play and thought maybe his shoulder was bothering him,which was why he didn't try and bust thru to get that yard. When asked why then was Coach Spears having a few words with LoMo afterwards, Troy declined to speak negatively about Maroney but did say that play was likely the reason he only saw limited time after.

So if the coaches are p*ssed then...they'd know better than we would. Enigmaroney. He'll have as many threads as CJax:singing:
 
If you can, flip on Monday night football. The way the Saints use Bush is how we should be using LoMo. Good play-calling.
 
It seems that both the Maroney detractors and appologists really don't know much about playing or coaching tailback. Maroney's problem isn't a lack of toughness. It's not a function of blocking scheme. It's not a function of not getting enough room to play. Maroney's issue is that he has zero vision and he doesn't know how to play the position.

Maroney has power. Maroney has speed. Maroney has agility. Maroney has good feet. Maroney has good balance. Maroney has a good juke, plants well and explodes on head fakes. He has a hell of a stiffie. That's the makings of a great highschool and college player. Not a great pro.

Take Sammy Morris. He's not nearly as athletic as Maroney, but he knows how to play the position. For example, there was a play in I believe the late 3rd, early 4th quarter where Morris showed why he is in my mind an excellent pro. The run was out of a single back set, the call was something simple like a 35 trap. Morris took the handoff at 3/4 speed, recognized the trap wasn't there, made a quick cut to the barely open 3 hole, broke two arm tackles from over-persuing defenders, advanced the ball another six or seven yards, secured the ball and leaned into contact, absorbed three defenders and finished the run for a first down. It was a textbook example of why Morris is very effective and Maroney is not.

In a similar situation, Maroney would take the handoff, read the playside tackle...take a stutter-step...get confused...run into the ass of the linemen. Even if Maroney was placed in space, it wouldn't offset his lack of vision and inefficient cuts. Playing runningback is all about the utility of the cut. Good tailbacks accelerate through their cuts, barely altering direction but buying another 3 yards of running room before their next decision. Maroney isn't efficient in his cuts. Add this to his lack of vision and you have a back who basically isn't cut out to play in the open field, either.

What Maroney needs, in my opinion, is to be put in long developing plays focused on the fringes of the defense. Where if there is going to be a hole, it will be easy enough to hit in a linear manner. Get him on counter-treys, bubble screens, draws and other similar plays. Let the more classic tailbacks of Morris and Jordan be the colloquial runners. Let Faulk be the scat back. Work Maroney into the rotation when the other backs are gassed. Work on his vision and teach him how to cut and you will have a superstar in development. There is enough tallent on this team to be patient with Maroney.
 
I just think Maroney needs more off tackle runs and the like. His best run of the season against the Chiefs was an outside run. I think he'd just be more effective on the outside. I mean, sure he has power, but we've all seen he's more likely to cut and run and stiff arm than to plow through someone.

Leave the up the gut stuff to Morris and Jordan. Maroney should get more of the outside stuff, off tackle, counter, whatever. Even Adrian Peterson would look bad if he kept getting runs up the middle with the line not playing amazingly well.
 
It seems that both the Maroney detractors and appologists really don't know much about playing or coaching tailback. Maroney's problem isn't a lack of toughness. It's not a function of blocking scheme. It's not a function of not getting enough room to play. Maroney's issue is that he has zero vision and he doesn't know how to play the position.

Maroney has power. Maroney has speed. Maroney has agility. Maroney has good feet. Maroney has good balance. Maroney has a good juke, plants well and explodes on head fakes. He has a hell of a stiffie. That's the makings of a great highschool and college player. Not a great pro.

Take Sammy Morris. He's not nearly as athletic as Maroney, but he knows how to play the position. For example, there was a play in I believe the late 3rd, early 4th quarter where Morris showed why he is in my mind an excellent pro. The run was out of a single back set, the call was something simple like a 35 trap. Morris took the handoff at 3/4 speed, recognized the trap wasn't there, made a quick cut to the barely open 3 hole, broke two arm tackles from over-persuing defenders, advanced the ball another six or seven yards, secured the ball and leaned into contact, absorbed three defenders and finished the run for a first down. It was a textbook example of why Morris is very effective and Maroney is not.

In a similar situation, Maroney would take the handoff, read the playside tackle...take a stutter-step...get confused...run into the ass of the linemen. Even if Maroney was placed in space, it wouldn't offset his lack of vision and inefficient cuts. Playing runningback is all about the utility of the cut. Good tailbacks accelerate through their cuts, barely altering direction but buying another 3 yards of running room before their next decision. Maroney isn't efficient in his cuts. Add this to his lack of vision and you have a back who basically isn't cut out to play in the open field, either.

What Maroney needs, in my opinion, is to be put in long developing plays focused on the fringes of the defense. Where if there is going to be a hole, it will be easy enough to hit in a linear manner. Get him on counter-treys, bubble screens, draws and other similar plays. Let the more classic tailbacks of Morris and Jordan be the colloquial runners. Let Faulk be the scat back. Work Maroney into the rotation when the other backs are gassed. Work on his vision and teach him how to cut and you will have a superstar in development. There is enough tallent on this team to be patient with Maroney.

helluva insightful post...thanx
 
Well, my apologies if I seemed to be taking a hard slam at you rather than something milder. Last night's game thread and the accompanying "player sucks" about Cassel, Seymour and company, combined with a bad cold, have me more cranky than I should be....

Just so we're clear on my stance. I agree that the O-line just doesnt seem to be blocking consistantly, and not just in the running game. I also agree that all the 'so-n-so sucks' threads are annoying. My only real problem with Maroney is how he hits the line. He just looks like he's hesitating, and maybe losing momentum. If there is an injury issue that could prevent him from doing his job, than I wish he'd just sit till he's ready.

With that said, I must add that my credentials do not include, running backs coach. So someone explain to me why he looks like he's hesitating at the line. Possibly im seeing things?
 
It seems that both the Maroney detractors and appologists really don't know much about playing or coaching tailback. Maroney's problem isn't a lack of toughness. It's not a function of blocking scheme. It's not a function of not getting enough room to play. Maroney's issue is that he has zero vision and he doesn't know how to play the position.

Maroney has power. Maroney has speed. Maroney has agility. Maroney has good feet. Maroney has good balance. Maroney has a good juke, plants well and explodes on head fakes. He has a hell of a stiffie. That's the makings of a great highschool and college player. Not a great pro.

Take Sammy Morris. He's not nearly as athletic as Maroney, but he knows how to play the position. For example, there was a play in I believe the late 3rd, early 4th quarter where Morris showed why he is in my mind an excellent pro. The run was out of a single back set, the call was something simple like a 35 trap. Morris took the handoff at 3/4 speed, recognized the trap wasn't there, made a quick cut to the barely open 3 hole, broke two arm tackles from over-persuing defenders, advanced the ball another six or seven yards, secured the ball and leaned into contact, absorbed three defenders and finished the run for a first down. It was a textbook example of why Morris is very effective and Maroney is not.

In a similar situation, Maroney would take the handoff, read the playside tackle...take a stutter-step...get confused...run into the ass of the linemen. Even if Maroney was placed in space, it wouldn't offset his lack of vision and inefficient cuts. Playing runningback is all about the utility of the cut. Good tailbacks accelerate through their cuts, barely altering direction but buying another 3 yards of running room before their next decision. Maroney isn't efficient in his cuts. Add this to his lack of vision and you have a back who basically isn't cut out to play in the open field, either.

What Maroney needs, in my opinion, is to be put in long developing plays focused on the fringes of the defense. Where if there is going to be a hole, it will be easy enough to hit in a linear manner. Get him on counter-treys, bubble screens, draws and other similar plays. Let the more classic tailbacks of Morris and Jordan be the colloquial runners. Let Faulk be the scat back. Work Maroney into the rotation when the other backs are gassed. Work on his vision and teach him how to cut and you will have a superstar in development. There is enough tallent on this team to be patient with Maroney.

From last season:

Laurence Maroney - New England Patriots - Situational Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Sammy Morris - New England Patriots - Situational Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
 

Maroney 2007

Situation G Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD
Wide Right 7 12 66 0.0 5.5 0
Right 12 51 186 0.0 3.6 1
Middle 13 50 182 0.0 3.6 1
Left 12 59 340 0.0 5.8 4
Wide Left 9 13 61 0.0 4.7 0

Maroney did far better on the outside and running left than running to the middle or to the right. Note that last year Mankins was actually playing like a probowler so that helps explain why left worked better for Maroney. This season however Mankins looks like he is getting manhandled.



Morris 2007

Situation G Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD
Wide Right 3 5 54 0.0 10.8 0 1
Right 6 25 76 0.0 3.0 0
Middle 6 18 77 0.0 4.3 1
Left 6 29 154 0.0 5.3 2
Wide Left 4 8 23 0.0 2.9 0

Morris' chart shows that he can generally get better gains in the middle. Running off RG still seems to be not effective. And he had success running wide RIGHT but not wide LEFT. Morris sample size in 2007 was limited due to injuries but the eyeball test showed that he hit the hole hard and fast and because of that was less susceptible to getting hit for losses.

2008 gives an even smaller sample size but let's take a look.

Laurence Maroney - New England Patriots - Situational Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Maroney 2008:
Wide Right 3 4 25 0.0 6.3 0
Right 3 12 45 0.0 3.8 0
Middle 2 2 6 0.0 3.0 0
Left 3 7 12 0.0 1.7 0
Wide Left 1 3 5 0.0 1.7 0

Interesting to see that despite the right side of the offensive line being considered the weakest, Maroney has the most success running right or wide right. He gets stuffed consistently in the middle and running left.

Sammy Morris - New England Patriots - Situational Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Morris 2008:

Wide Right 2 2 -6 0.0 -3.0 0
Right 4 13 25 0.0 1.9 1
Middle 4 11 56 0.0 5.1 0
Left 4 15 55 0.0 3.7 1
Wide Left 3 2 13 0.0 6.5 0

Morris is the mirror image of Maroney. He has the most success running to the left and right up the gut. Runs to the right side generally yield bad results. Conclusion, if you want a guy who hits the hole fast and can run up the middle, Morris is the guy you want. Maroney may be able to get you decent yardage running right and good yardage to the outside right. He looks to be a change of pace back right now because of his inability to get the production that Morris can running inside.
 
We really liked running to the left, didn't we?

When Mankins was playing at a high level we did. Now we run left just because running right sucks so much. Based on the numbers when we run to the right we should use Maroney and when left and middle we use Morris. Unfortunately that would make our plays too predictable based on looking at our personnel.

It's not the worse thing in the world that Maroney has only amounted to a platoon change of pace back. We can use the depth with all our injuries. What makes it disappointing is that we invested a 1st round pick in him. These results would have been fine for a 3rd or 4th round pick though.
 
It seems that both the Maroney detractors and appologists really don't know much about playing or coaching tailback. Maroney's problem isn't a lack of toughness. It's not a function of blocking scheme. It's not a function of not getting enough room to play. Maroney's issue is that he has zero vision and he doesn't know how to play the position.

Maroney has power. Maroney has speed. Maroney has agility. Maroney has good feet. Maroney has good balance. Maroney has a good juke, plants well and explodes on head fakes. He has a hell of a stiffie. That's the makings of a great highschool and college player. Not a great pro.

Take Sammy Morris. He's not nearly as athletic as Maroney, but he knows how to play the position. For example, there was a play in I believe the late 3rd, early 4th quarter where Morris showed why he is in my mind an excellent pro. The run was out of a single back set, the call was something simple like a 35 trap. Morris took the handoff at 3/4 speed, recognized the trap wasn't there, made a quick cut to the barely open 3 hole, broke two arm tackles from over-persuing defenders, advanced the ball another six or seven yards, secured the ball and leaned into contact, absorbed three defenders and finished the run for a first down. It was a textbook example of why Morris is very effective and Maroney is not.

In a similar situation, Maroney would take the handoff, read the playside tackle...take a stutter-step...get confused...run into the ass of the linemen. Even if Maroney was placed in space, it wouldn't offset his lack of vision and inefficient cuts. Playing runningback is all about the utility of the cut. Good tailbacks accelerate through their cuts, barely altering direction but buying another 3 yards of running room before their next decision. Maroney isn't efficient in his cuts. Add this to his lack of vision and you have a back who basically isn't cut out to play in the open field, either.

What Maroney needs, in my opinion, is to be put in long developing plays focused on the fringes of the defense. Where if there is going to be a hole, it will be easy enough to hit in a linear manner. Get him on counter-treys, bubble screens, draws and other similar plays. Let the more classic tailbacks of Morris and Jordan be the colloquial runners. Let Faulk be the scat back. Work Maroney into the rotation when the other backs are gassed. Work on his vision and teach him how to cut and you will have a superstar in development. There is enough tallent on this team to be patient with Maroney.

i have been thinking that Maroney's lack of success is due to his lack of vision...

but its not something i can easily accept or understand...you need vision to play in college as well, its not like rb's can do without vision and be taht productive in collebe but completely have no vision in the NFL...

either way, i dont think its his vision...i think its that he is restricted...

i think the coaches have told him to take it north/south, and not go sideways
b/c of that he hesitates when he sees no hole, and does not go to the outside when its obvious is that open there

hopefully, sometime soon, the coaches will let go of the chains, and just tell maroney to make things happen, any way he wants...if he sees no hole inside, bumb it to the outside...he can handle it...

btw, maroney is excellent on the open field...that was proven i thought last year on multiple occasions
 
We really liked running to the left, didn't we?

Maroney's carries were split pretty evenly, with R/M/L being 51/50/59, although the team was clearly better running left. Maroney was more effective running both left and right than Morris was. Morris was more effective running right up the middle. This really isn't surprising when you think of the differing styles. Maroney is the better runner, but he's a cutback/vision type of player, whereas Morris is more of a bull.

What is most interesting to me is the lack of pass receptions. Maroney averages 11.9 yards per catch as a running back, and averaged 8.8 yards per catch in his most busy receiving year, yet he has fewer than 30 receptions in 3 years. Maroney seems to be the most misused player on the Patriots offense, and it doesn't look as if it's even close.
 
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I actually would like to see more of Maroney catching the ball, but it's likely that Faulk has the role of pass catching back sewed up, which is why we're not seeing much of it.
 
As a Minnesota Golden Gopher fan, I assume I have seen Maroney play more games than anyone on the board..unless their is a resident of St Louis who watched his High School games.

Maroney has never been the type of pounder that Sammy Morris or LaMont Jordan is. He doesn't run hard with explosion between the tackles. If the Gophers ever had a 3rd (or 4th) and short, I wanted to see Marion Barber or Thomas Tapeh get the ball (or later Gary Russell). Laurence likes to make decisions behind the line of scrimmage, and he needs a clean backfield to make those decisions. If the Pats line is allowing penetration on running plays (like it has consistently this year), Laurence will not be successful.

Here's a highlight video I found of Maroney's time at Minnesota (warning I didn't care for the music)

Laurence Maroney Highlight Reel - Truveo Video Search


Notice how many of his runs start slowly with a cut in the backfield. Notice how he rarely explodes with his first few steps but rather "dances" "shuffles" or whatever word you choose to use. Now notice how often a run starts inside and then ends up near the sidelines. Many of his big runs came on plays off tackle or even wider, which the Patriots haven't really utilized this season.

The Gophers used a zone blocking scheme with undersized lineman who were adept at cut blocks. Laurence would take the hand off, look for the cutback lane and then look to take it the distance. His style produced plenty of 1,2, and 3 yard runs, but also plenty of 20 plus yard runs.

Laurence's positives are that he's got a great combination of size and speed for the position and has good vision in the open field.

What Laurence lacks is the ability to consistently pound the ball between the tackles in a north/south style. He has done it on occasion, but it's certainly not his strength. He also has always been in a time share and has never reacted well to carrying the entire load. Laurence got banged up quite a bit his junior year after Marion Barber left for the NFL. In the NFL his trend of getting nicked up has continued.

What is interesting is that the Gophers never used their running backs in the passing game, but Laurence has showed flashes of being very effective in that area in the NFL, particularly last season.

Part of me has been frustrated by Laurence's play this year, especially after how well he played down the stretch last season. I do think a lot of his struggles have to do with the Oline and that this Oline is better suited to block for a downhill power back such as Morris or Jordan. That said, it's up to Laurence to make an adjustment and be more willing to accept the 2 yard gain instead of looking for a hole or a cutback lane that might not develop.

I've been trying to think of an NFL comparison to Laurence Maroney and the best I can come up with is Robert Smith. Smith was a size/speed back who ran upright and was injured often during his career. He was the type of guy early in his career who you never really wanted running the ball on 3rd and short, but who often broke long runs. Later in Smith's career, he still broke long runs, but he became average (maybe better than average) in short yardage situations. Still, the Vikings usually employed a power back (such as Leroy Hoard) in tough short yardage situations.

Maroney has showed flashes of being no just a very good NFL back, but an elite NFL back. I don't know if he will ever get there, but I do think it's too early to give up on him.

One other point: Is it possible that it's not just the Oline's regression, but the regression in the blocking department by the TE's as well? Neither Thomas or Watson is going to turn a DE inside to allow a Maroney to get around the edge.
 
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The problem last year in the end with bad weather he was the man.he has 276 yds in the playoffs and if we do not include the SB where we just decided to keep throwing that is a amazing numbers for any RB.
Also, what is up with the whole carry the load BS. he was never asked to carry the full load here. he always had atleast 1 RB to split the carrys.Even when morris was down he had faulk,heath and kyle to get some carries off him.

I think he can be dorminant he kinda exploded after the 26 carries /100 yd game last year. I think he need to be run a few times to get him into the grove.
 
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As a Minnesota Golden Gopher fan, I assume I have seen Maroney play more games than anyone on the board..unless their is a resident of St Louis who watched his High School games.

Maroney has never been the type of pounder that Sammy Morris or LaMont Jordan is. He doesn't run hard with explosion between the tackles. If the Gophers ever had a 3rd (or 4th) and short, I wanted to see Marion Barber or Thomas Tapeh get the ball (or later Gary Russell). Laurence likes to make decisions behind the line of scrimmage, and he needs a clean backfield to make those decisions. If the Pats line is allowing penetration on running plays (like it has consistently this year), Laurence will not be successful.

Here's a highlight video I found of Maroney's time at Minnesota (warning I didn't care for the music)

Laurence Maroney Highlight Reel - Truveo Video Search


Notice how many of his runs start slowly with a cut in the backfield. Notice how he rarely explodes with his first few steps but rather "dances" "shuffles" or whatever word you choose to use. Now notice how often a run starts inside and then ends up near the sidelines. Many of his big runs came on plays off tackle or even wider, which the Patriots haven't really utilized this season.

The Gophers used a zone blocking scheme with undersized lineman who were adept at cut blocks. Laurence would take the hand off, look for the cutback lane and then look to take it the distance. His style produced plenty of 1,2, and 3 yard runs, but also plenty of 20 plus yard runs.

Laurence's positives are that he's got a great combination of size and speed for the position and has good vision in the open field.

What Laurence lacks is the ability to consistently pound the ball between the tackles in a north/south style. He has done it on occasion, but it's certainly not his strength. He also has always been in a time share and has never reacted well to carrying the entire load. Laurence got banged up quite a bit his junior year after Marion Barber left for the NFL. In the NFL his trend of getting nicked up has continued.

What is interesting is that the Gophers never used their running backs in the passing game, but Laurence has showed flashes of being very effective in that area in the NFL, particularly last season.

Part of me has been frustrated by Laurence's play this year, especially after how well he played down the stretch last season. I do think a lot of his struggles have to do with the Oline and that this Oline is better suited to block for a downhill power back such as Morris or Jordan. That said, it's up to Laurence to make an adjustment and be more willing to accept the 2 yard gain instead of looking for a hole or a cutback lane that might not develop.

I've been trying to think of an NFL comparison to Laurence Maroney and the best I can come up with is Robert Smith. Smith was a size/speed back who ran upright and was injured often during his career. He was the type of guy early in his career who you never really wanted running the ball on 3rd and short, but who often broke long runs. Later in Smith's career, he still broke long runs, but he became average (maybe better than average) in short yardage situations. Still, the Vikings usually employed a power back (such as Leroy Hoard) in tough short yardage situations.

Maroney has showed flashes of being no just a very good NFL back, but an elite NFL back. I don't know if he will ever get there, but I do think it's too early to give up on him.

One other point: Is it possible that it's not just the Oline's regression, but the regression in the blocking department by the TE's as well? Neither Thomas or Watson is going to turn a DE inside to allow a Maroney to get around the edge.

I have to think that the Patriots scouting division and HC knew all of that and it was the HR potential they were after in part because even bruising backs get hurt and wear down/out at a much higher rate. Thing is they selected him on the assumption they could transition to a zone blocking scheme and modify his style just enough to integrate him into the NFL. His injuries in the process coupled with the fact that the OL never has transitioned to the zone blocking system with any consistent level of success has left everyone involved in a conundrum...

There is plenty of blame to go around - the kid is just the easiest target for fanboys and mediots to unload on.
 
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