What's up with Marcus Cannon?

[Kontradiction]

By the way, I'm aware solder is also struggling, but left tackle is tougher and he's not getting beat in drills that I'm aware of. Could be something as simple as a sore foot, who knows?

He's getting beaten like a drum.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Well, it's his position according to the coach, so they'll need to work that out.

Bill Belichick Press Conference Transcript

Why would you assume BB is being truthful when he talks to the media?

Suppose Cannon is a decent fit at Guard but they want to see what he can do at tackle, do you think BB would state that? BB talks up opposing players before he plays them, do you really think he believes all of it? Giving someone a window to your true thoughts increases their chances of beating you, I don't know what BB actually thinks and I wouldnt take those comments as gospel.

 

[QB12]

Disappointing the number of one-on-one matchups he's getting beat on.

 

[DarrylS]

The whole O-line is in a mess right now after two of our most stable player of the years went out,(light retires and Mankins hurt), and this is what you get out of everyone else, Cannon struggling, Koppen might be cut, ect.

That is a bit of an overstatement at this stage of the preseason, if we were at game #4 and there were no significant changes then there may be concerns.. the hidden factor here is Dante...

Was listening to Ross Tucker on sports talk the other day, and he gave nothing but praise for Dante and claimed he was the best coach he ever had, what made him different than all others was that he made sure the player who was projected to see the least amount of playing time was as prepared as the starter was.. inow everyone was prepared and everyone was ready to step in.

Interestingly enough Tucker claimed that in this offense, RG was the most important.. he elaborated, but did not get the finer points.

 

[RayClay]

Because, and I've been stressing this over and over....HE'S NOT A TACKLE. He never was, he's not got the skil set to bea tackle in the NFL and he had to fill in because of injuries last season at the tackle position and will fillin this year until we have the players there.

Cannon will be a fine guard, but he's not going to be suited at tackle.

Interesting. what do you base this on? I can't actually find evidence of him playing guard, or at least playing it more than tackle just in his pro career.

Please enlighten me.

I know we shouldn't trust Belichick, according to posters. I did find this blurb from the herald about the Pats looking for guards or centers in the draft because...

Just wanted to throw out one quick tidbit that should help when figuring out the Patriots offensive line going forward. And it involves one of the most talked-about rookies.

Marcus Cannon, who beat cancer and was a late-season addition for depth, will be considered a tackle, not a guard, moving forward, I’m told.

This isn’t exactly breaking news or anything, and we won’t have to stop the imaginary presses. But Cannon’s intrigue continued all year, beginning when Cannon (left, with R&B star Ciara during Super Bowl XLVI Media Day) slipped in the draft from a second-round talent to a fifth-round gamble because of his health situation.

Fingers crossed, it worked out well. He was activated on Nov. 16 and ending up filling in at tackle when needed this season. And while he was a little rusty, the raw talent was there.


The reason I bring this up, however, is that Cannon was considered versatile when he was drafted. Some — ahem, me — assumed he would be used at guard as well as tackle, providing depth along the O-line… and maybe being a future starter. And with the team looking at the possible retirement of Brian Waters, some thought Cannon could step in.

Instead, Cannon will be in the mix with Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer and practice squader Matt Kopa, who is promising. While it hasn’t been said officially, the expectation is that Matt Light will not be back next year (with retirement definitely possible).

Cannon is a 6-foot-5, 358-pounder, and the Patriots love his size at tackle. Not at guard. While it seems the Patriots have two starters going into next season — Vollmer and Solder — the season-long injury struggles that Vollmer faced have raised some internal eyebrows. If Vollmer has more ailments, Cannon is a prime candidate to step in.

Either way, the Patriots should be pretty psyched about their future at tackle.

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Looking toward the future… Marcus Cannon to be considered an offensive tackle

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Dante is no youngster either. Early 70s? The long days and hours at his age must be tough. NFL position coach is nothing like a 40 Hr/week job. Stays in shape and runs laps with the OL in training camp.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Mankins and Waters played guard.

Cannon played tackle with Vollmer out when Solder lined up as a blocking TE.

Maybe they originally wanted him to be a guard but I don't recall him actually playing the position.

Vollmer's back may have forced the Pats to groom another RT. Cannon has the size for the position and supposedly has the feet too.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: What's up With Cannon?

I know it's early, but I've never read so many bad reports about someone who was supposed to be a steal. Great story and I'm happy he's healthy (is he?) but there's simply nothing good in any reports I've seen.
Anyone going to practice to report here? It's still the Not For Long league and that goes double for the Patriots these days with all they've invested at other positions.

If you are looking for something good he has looked pretty good as a run blocker (which I have read but can also attest to noticing in person) and I think his struggles have been primarily in pass protection.

hes a guard playing RT and struggling. nothing more to do with it

These statements make me want to pull out my hair. He played tackle in college and has pretty much only played tackle for us and particularly this season he has been working at tackle. We dont really have anyone else in the pipeline at tackle so switching him to guard thins out another area of "more importance".

I understand that some draft pundants thought he might move inside to guard in the pros but nothing we have seen from his time in a Patriot uniform shows that we are trying to make that move.

The whole O-line is in a mess right now after two of our most stable player of the years went out,(light retires and Mankins hurt), and this is what you get out of everyone else, Cannon struggling, Koppen might be cut, ect.

I couldn't agree with this assesment more. I dont think it is fair for us and the media to criticize him too much for some struggles. This is his first training camp and his job this camp is to play Right Tackle on an offensive line that right now is missing 3 of 5 of the starters from last year (Light, Waters, and Mankins who thankfully will be back tomorrow) and currently does not have a single starter from last year playing the same position (Solder going from RT to LT and Connoly to guard from Center).

Dont get me wrong regardless of what happens at the other 4 positions his play needs to improve but I will give him the benefit of the doubt until his teamates return and/or until I have seen enough at RT in live game action to make a true assesment.

Why would you assume BB is being truthful when he talks to the media?

I actually find that BB is usually pretty truthful when he speaks and if you ask him something he would not answer truthfully he doesnt usually lie instead he will either answer the question by shifting the topic (example if you asked about Cannons struggles at RT he would likely defer and instead answer how the whole line has struggled or something similar to shift the discussion to something he is willing to discuss) or he will just flat out say something like I am not a doctor next question.

Suppose Cannon is a decent fit at Guard but they want to see what he can do at tackle, do you think BB would state that?

He has been pretty open about McDonald playing multiple positions and really there is not a reason not to be as if you are actually playing multiple positions everyone in attendance can see it. And oddly enough no one has seen Cannon at guard this year. So either BB is trying to hide some big state secret by not allowing him to practice at his "persumed position by several on here" or maybe just maybe BB plans on him being a tackle.

BB talks up opposing players before he plays them, do you really think he believes all of it? Giving someone a window to your true thoughts increases their chances of beating you, I don't know what BB actually thinks and I wouldnt take those comments as gospel.

Actually yes and I just posted something similar in another thread a day or two ago but IMO BB is usually very truthful when he speaks of other teams. He may overinflate the teams overall talent (but he hides behind we are proffessionals and any given sunday to make this a true statement). But then when he starts to talk individuals on a team IMO is where he is being very truthful as everyteam has at least a few players worthy of praise and he will focus on those guys and use them to convince everyone this is toughest team you will see this week.

I look at it more like he is playing devils advocate than he is lying. He will pick out the terms that makes his point and ignore those that dont and he will paint a picture that might not seem accurate as a whole but is completely based on truth.

-

Finally and this is directed at no one in particular but lets assume he is a tackle until we actually see him play or practice at guard and lets either give him the benefit of the return of the rest of the O-line or if for some crazy reason the rest of the line does not return just some time for him to get acclimated with the guys he will play with and time to sink or swin on his own. Part of training camp is building up continuity with the guys you will be playing with lets give him that time.

 

[mgteich]

Would you prefer Belichick say that Cannon is playing OT because he has only two pro quality OT on the team, and one is injured?

Cannon is playing OT because he is the 3rd best OT that we have. If we switched the situation and we had lots and lots of OT's who could start and only 2 OG's, then miraculously Cannon would then be a RG, and the man to replace Water either in 2012 or 2013.

We needed Cannon at OT last year. He did very well for a rookie with no camp and with health issues.

We continue to need Cannon at OT.
======================

Can Cannon be a regular RT? Sure! He needs a bit more experience with Dante.

Well, it's his position according to the coach, so they'll need to work that out.


Bill Belichick Press Conference Transcript

 

[signbabybrady]

Would you prefer Belichick say that Cannon is playing OT because he has only two pro quality OT on the team, and one is injured?

Cannon is playing OT because he is the 3rd best OT that we have. If we switched the situation and we had lots and lots of OT's who could start and only 2 OG's, then miraculously Cannon would then be a RG, and the man to replace Water either in 2012 or 2013.

We needed Cannon at OT last year. He did very well for a rookie with no camp and with health issues.

We continue to need Cannon at OT.
======================

Can Cannon be a regular RT? Sure! He needs a bit more experience with Dante.

I think need is certainly a good enough reason to play someone out of position see McDonald but if this was simply the case of a guard playing tackle for need wouldnt he still get reps at guard? Last year when he came off the PUP list he immediately went to tackle and yes there was a need at tackle but it wasnt like guard couldnt use the help last year too as your top back up guard was playing center for the injured Koppen.

Bottom Line: if the Patriots feel like Cannon is a guard they might want to start practicing him there even if just for a few snaps a practice until he can finally stop being a tackle out of necessity and get back to his "natural position" (note the sarcasm).

 

[RayClay]

Would you prefer Belichick say that Cannon is playing OT because he has only two pro quality OT on the team, and one is injured?

Cannon is playing OT because he is the 3rd best OT that we have. If we switched the situation and we had lots and lots of OT's who could start and only 2 OG's, then miraculously Cannon would then be a RG, and the man to replace Water either in 2012 or 2013.

We needed Cannon at OT last year. He did very well for a rookie with no camp and with health issues.

We continue to need Cannon at OT.
======================

Can Cannon be a regular RT? Sure! He needs a bit more experience with Dante.

My thread was looking for information from the knowledgeable Pats fans regarding camp reports. Is cannon injured? Is he consistently having problems?

I was then bombarded with these "facts" about him being a guard who was never supposed to play tackle and was playing out of position.

My impression was that he was "projected" as a guard (mostly by writers and his college coach) but that he actually played tackle almost exclusively during his career. Since backups need position flexibility and he played it last year, I assumed he was the first backup at tackle (and guard if he had made that transition).

I think that's mostly correct. It's early, he's struggling and i don't think anyone has anything more than that at this point.

I don't really care what belichick said, except that what he and the herald (Rappaport) said directly contradicts what some posters "know" and i find zero to contradict those sources.

 

[RayClay]

Re: What's up With Cannon?

If you are looking for something good he has looked pretty good as a run blocker (which I have read but can also attest to noticing in person) and I think his struggles have been primarily in pass protection.

Thanks. Maybe it's a matter of technique. I know he played a lot with Solder as a TE last year, so it could be he's needing to adjust.

10/10 for the rest of your post.

 

[signbabybrady]

Just stumbled onto this quote after I finished my above posts and the quote begs the question that if versatilty is so important among the gameday 7 then why hasnt the supposed out of position tackle taken any reps at guard?

"If we only take seven guys to the game, then either our backups have to play multiple positions or one of our starters would have to bump from say guard to center, or right tackle to left tackle or whatever it is for seven players to cover five positions and have the depth of it. Somebody's gotta back up somebody somewhere. They all can't just play one position. Depending on what the combination of people is it could be different, different movements. But in the end, like I said, seven guys have to be able to cover five spots, so versatility is a big key, and now's the time to work on it. And you get into the regular season and you try to work on your timing and keep guys where you think they're going to play the most of the game. Now is the time where they can work on their secondary position, or where they can give you depth. And we can gain confidence in them, they can gain confidence in playing the position that they have to, knowing that their primary spot is somewhere else."

 

[BB4PRez]

I am routing for Cannon in a big way and like the story of a Cancer survivor succeeding. I think he changed his physique in the offseason and is less of a wide body. Sometimes guys lose muscle when they trim down, even when they are lifting. I am hoping he comes around.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: What's up With Cannon?

Thanks. Maybe it's a matter of technique. I know he played a lot with Solder as a TE last year, so it could be he's needing to adjust.

10/10 for the rest of your post.

I am hoping it just a combination of the missing peices and his learning curve. we have about a month for him to correct his mistakes and for the missing pieces to return if either passes and the mistakes are still occuring then I will start to be concerned.

But I also feel as though Cannon is being a little bit of the media scapegoat for the OL troubles right now example being some of the breakdowns of the strip sack. Some media have said that despite it being Solders man that caused the sack that Cannons man caused some pressure causing Brady to roll out creating space for Smith to beat Solder. While this does paint a more accurate depiction of what happened to Solder on the play it doesnt put it all on Cannon either. Coverage and a mistake or Cannon just getting beat created an opportunity for Smith but Smith still had to beat Solder not Cannon.

 

[RayClay]

Just stumbled onto this quote after I finished my above posts and the quote begs the question that if versatilty is so important among the gameday 7 then why hasnt the supposed out of position tackle taken any reps at guard?

Yeah, the point of which position is actually moot, but when someone responds with something that seems factually wrong, I try to pursue that. A backup needs to have t-g or g-c flexibility. I believe koppen stepped right in at center, but you can't afford too many guys like that. if you've got an all pro, others need to pick up the flexibility slack.

I think Cannon needs to exhibit reasonable steadiness at t-g, unless Vollmer's out, in which case he's our T for now or we get someone else. It's not that high a standard either, we've had to get by whole seasons with ham and eggers starting because of injuries on the line.

To answer your question, I assume it's because Light retired and Vollmer's been iffy. Necessity says we need a tackle now, we have good depth at guard. If Vollmer starts, that still applies.

To reply again, there's no doubt we might be seeing a bit of overall chaos. Light's gone, Waters is fishing, Mankins has been out. Solder's is still a pup. Hopefully this will all change as confidence and vets filter back

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

sbb quotes Belichick well, "seven guys have to be able to cover five spots, so versatility is a big key, and now's the time to work on it."

Especially with only one pre-season game under the belt we'd best remember that pre-season is THE time for player development and teaching. Perfection is weeks away. In the past BB has often commented that it takes several games into the season for a team and its units to jell. Chill, people.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

We all hope Marcus can make a quick change for the better but all reports indicate he is nothing short of being a turnstile on the path to the QB and that can be VERY scary if Brady is subjected to a full speed pass rush.

If Marcus continues to have a bad a practice as he had on monday with 0-3 on drills...I really wonder if he is going to make the roster.

It would be a shame that a story like an athlete beating cancer is followed by a shortened NFL career.... cross your fingers that he gets better.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

We all hope Marcus can make a quick change for the better but all reports indicate he is nothing short of being a turnstile on the path to the QB and that can be VERY scary if Brady is subjected to a full speed pass rush.

If Marcus continues to have a bad a practice as he had on monday with 0-3 on drills...I really wonder if he is going to make the roster.

It would be a shame that a story like an athlete beating cancer is followed by a shortened NFL career.... cross your fingers that he gets better.

Based on what little I have seen this spring from Cannon, it seems to me, he is really struggling to get off at the snap of the ball and the lateral agility is weak. Fortunately there are ways to get him some help. Put Gronkowski on his shoulder or have the back chip the DE on Cannon's side.

Solder's struggles are a little more worrisome. It looks to me like he has put a LOT of muscle on his frame and he has lost a ton of flexibility and athletic ability. Now he seems to be plodding instead of flowing.

The reason I am a bit worried is because if you look at McCourty as a rookie, you see a player that is fluid and moved very well. Then last year it seemed to me that McCourty had bulked up too much and lost a lot of flexibility and some athletic ability.

Now this year, I think I see the exact same pattern developing with Solder.

While this is all speculation on my part, I have to wonder if this is a product of Nash being the S&C coach? I did not percieve this type problem when Woicik was here.

 

[patchick]

Based on what little I have seen this spring from Cannon, it seems to me, he is really struggling to get off at the snap of the ball and the lateral agility is weak.

The part that worries me most is that this is exactly who he was in college. Pros: massive, powerful, explosive. Cons: poor lateral agility, slow off the snap, slow to raise his hands. And that is NOT the classic portrait of a Patriots-style offensive lineman.

Obviously, I hope for the best. But in style, Cannon's a lot closer to Ryan O'Callaghan than Matt Light.

(Oh, and as for the tackle vs. guard question: the Patriots said they saw Cannon as a tackle when they drafted him, and have played him at tackle pretty consistently ever since. AFAIK was only draftniks who ever called him a guard.)