What's up with all this Brady is declining crap??

[Patjew]

An offense built around having a guy who can get open over the middle within the first 5 yards is struggling in large part because it doesn't currently have a guy who can get open over the middle within the first 5 yards. This should come as a surprise to no one. However....

All of you making this 'declining' claim should feel free to go to Vegas make some bets involving your homes about Brady's numbers once Amendola returns and Gronk gets a feel for the offense.

Don't tell me you think TFB is as good as he was per-injury.

I hope I'm wrong but I think the consistent greatness is gone with Tom's youth.

 

[Deus Irae]

Don't tell me you think TFB is as good as he was per-injury.

I hope I'm wrong but I think the consistent greatness is gone with Tom's youth.

I think Brady didn't lose it from January to September. I don't think it's a coincidence that his "decline" coincided with the loss of his top 5 targets from last year and their replacement by a guy who can't stay on the field, a pair of rookies who can barely find the field and couldn't catch colds in a virus factory, tight ends who aren't great blockers and can't catch, and a trio of RBs who have been pretty lousy at the Faulk/Woodhead role.

It shouldn't be surprising to find out that Brady seems out of sync, because he's been playing with a bunch of stiffs for 7 games, and that has a tendency to impact the way one plays.

 

[upstater1]

I would eat Brady's poop to save his life, but even I will say that he's gone from great to good. Go watch soME GAMES FROM 2004-2007 or 2010-2011 and tell me he's not worse now.

It happens. He's on the back 9 folks. Still love him and don't want to see him go.

He's worse now.

But his best year was last year.

 

[JMC00]

atrocious defense, we may very well be sitting at 0-7!

 

[upstater1]

Don't tell me you think TFB is as good as he was per-injury.

I hope I'm wrong but I think the consistent greatness is gone with Tom's youth.

I really thought his best year was last year. The stuff he chucked up for Moss in 2007 was really just, well, fortuitous. He looked a lot like a Stafford or Rivers just chucking things.

Last year he was in total command. I never saw him so on.

 

[MassPats38]

I think Brady didn't lose it from January to September. I don't think it's a coincidence that his "decline" coincided with the loss of his top 5 targets from last year and their replacement by a guy who can't stay on the field, a pair of rookies who can barely find the field and couldn't catch colds in a virus factory, tight ends who aren't great blockers and can't catch, and a trio of RBs who have been pretty lousy at the Faulk/Woodhead role.

It shouldn't be surprising to find out that Brady seems out of sync, because he's been playing with a bunch of stiffs for 7 games, and that has a tendency to impact the way one plays.

I tend not to buy a monster decline in ability in such a short period of time. With that said, can you recall historically any turnover on any team this extensive at TE and WR in a single season, short of a QB being transplanted on a new team? Or a roster so dominated by rookies?

For example, even in 2006, the team had Troy Brown, Ben Watson and Daniel Graham returning. The turmoil that year was caused by the loss of Branch and Givens - 2 players.

I am curious if there is any precedent in which a good QB saw this large a change in one season, and how that QB did with the changes. I just cannot think of something comparable. I don't think a QB, like Manning, moving to a new team is comparable because the QB learns the offensive system progressively and builds from a base. He doesn't have all the pieces around him learning the system at the same time.

 

[VrabelJr]

You can't just look at sacks totals to determine the effectiveness of our OL. You also have to look at our run to pass ratio which is god awful this year compared to last year. It's just too easy to blame things on the OL but we still have at least a top 10 OL in the league, likely top 3 or 5.

The Jets dared us to run the ball in the second half and we bullheadedly didn't.

 

[Deus Irae]

I tend not to buy a monster decline in ability in such a short period of time. With that said, can you recall historically any turnover on any team this extensive at TE and WR in a single season, short of a QB being transplanted on a new team? Or a roster so dominated by rookies?

For example, even in 2006, the team had Troy Brown, Ben Watson and Daniel Graham returning. The turmoil that year was caused by the loss of Branch and Givens - 2 players.

I am curious if there is any precedent in which a good QB saw this large a change in one season, and how that QB did with the changes. I just cannot think of something comparable. I don't think a QB, like Manning, moving to a new team is comparable because the QB learns the offensive system progressively and builds from a base. He doesn't have all the pieces around him learning the system at the same time.

I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone can think up something that's at least similar. But, let's recap, using the players who've been on the field most, to date:

2012 top TEs: Gronk, AHern
2013 top TEs: OhOh, Mulligan

2012 top WRs: Welker, Lloyd, Edelman
2013 top WRs: Edelman, Thompkins, Dobson

2012 top 3rd down RB: Woodhead
2013 top 3rd down RB: Bolden


Every one of those slots is a downgrade to this point, with the exception of Edelman = Edelman, and Mulligan/Thompkins/Dobson are brand new to the system and/or rookies, to boot. It's just my opinion but, to me, people attacking Brady over this season to date are either clueless or insane*.






*And this isn't even getting into this year's inconsistent line play which, as we saw in the Cardinals game last year, really does matter.

 

[supafly]

It's so ironic that 2 weeks ago today all of this talk was brought up, then last Sunday night I saw an article that asked "Is Brady the best he's ever been?"

Completing the circle again today, we're back at square one.

As some other good posters said, he's obviously going to be in a bit of a decline due to putting him in this "babysitting" role where he has to continuously call and text all of the receivers before and after practice--not to mention later on in the day. When I heard Thompkins state that "Brady calls and texts me all day long when we leave practice to talk about different things that happened on the field" it really hit me that he's just being asked to do amazing things this year.

I'd like to see him with DEN's offensive weapons to see just how much of a dropoff he's had.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

It's so ironic that 2 weeks ago today all of this talk was brought up, then last Sunday night I saw an article that asked "Is Brady the best he's ever been?"

Completing the circle again today, we're back at square one.

As some other good posters said, he's obviously going to be in a bit of a decline due to putting him in this "babysitting" role where he has to continuously call and text all of the receivers before and after practice--not to mention later on in the day. When I heard Thompkins state that "Brady calls and texts me all day long when we leave practice to talk about different things that happened on the field" it really hit me that he's just being asked to do amazing things this year.

I'd like to see him with DEN's offensive weapons to see just how much of a dropoff he's had.

He would be on fire I tell ya.

But it's good he is constantly talking to the rooks. It's only a matter of time until they break out.

 

[PATRlOT]

Once this offense has at least Gronk + Vereen, or Gronk + Amendola (hopefully all 3 going into December, January) only THEN would it be fair to judge whether Brady is "declining". That's not even mentioning the dreadful o-line we've had this year, which Brady can't really control at all.

I think a lot of people don't realize how much of a BIG difference Vereen could make for us.

 

[BSR]

I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone can think up something that's at least similar. But, let's recap, using the players who've been on the field most, to date:

2012 top TEs: Gronk, AHern
2013 top TEs: OhOh, Mulligan

2012 top WRs: Welker, Lloyd, Edelman
2013 top WRs: Edelman, Thompkins, Dobson

2012 top 3rd down RB: Woodhead
2013 top 3rd down RB: Bolden


Every one of those slots is a downgrade to this point, with the exception of Edelman = Edelman, and Mulligan/Thompkins/Dobson are brand new to the system and/or rookies, to boot. It's just my opinion but, to me, people attacking Brady over this season to date are either clueless or insane*.


*And this isn't even getting into this year's inconsistent line play which, as we saw in the Cardinals game last year, really does matter.

You can take away everything that the receivers did wrong and you can still see Brady's poor play. Bad reads, bad throws, missing wide open receivers. Of course, every QB is going to have bad plays, its just that he has them at a greater rate then he ever has before. I want to believe that this might be an adjustment phase as he is learning all these new players but I have to leave open some possibilities that he is in a decline. Obviously it has to happen at some point.

 

[supafly]

That's not even mentioning the dreadful o-line we've had this year, which Brady can't really control at all.

This is an aspect that I am really concerned about moving forward, not to mention very surprised.

With Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Connelly, and Vollmer (with either one of Cannon and/or Gronk being added in on bigger packages) one would think that we should have a pretty decent offensive line.

This is an issue that WILL be addressed with a high draft pick in April, as I honestly don't see any other option.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

He's making more bad decisions then he ever has before. He is making poor throws then he ever has before.

I don't know if he is declining or not, but he isn't playing like his normal self right now.

I don't disagree that there are more bad decisions pr throws happening, however, let's keep in mind that TB is dealing with a whole new passing game that itself is raw. Take the incredible Joe Montana or the invincible PM and put them on a team with this many new and unproven receivers and they would likely look less than incredible or invincible.

As of last week TB was working with all newbys and having to force the ball at times (no choice). He was having to operate a passing game very different than in past years. To me it appeared having Gronk back coupled with the new passing game created a level of unknown. Given a few weeks I think the blending of the old and new will result in less instances of TB seemingly making bad choices. It certainly would help if the OL would play more consistent too....

 

[BSR]

I don't disagree that there are more bad decisions pr throws happening, however, let's keep in mind that TB is dealing with a whole new passing game that itself is raw. Take the incredible Joe Montana or the invincible PM and put them on a team with this many new and unproven receivers and they would likely look less than incredible or invincible.

As of last week TB was working with all newbys and having to force the ball at times (no choice). He was having to operate a passing game very different than in past years. To me it appeared having Gronk back coupled with the new passing game created a level of unknown. Given a few weeks I think the blending of the old and new will result in less instances of TB seemingly making bad choices. It certainly would help if the OL would play more consistent too....

I've seen Brady play with a whole bunch of new nobodies and rookies and play much better then he is right now. Like I said, I'm still open to the notion that they will turn things around and that is mostly because there are still stretches when he looks like him old self. I think most of his issues are a lack of trust as opposed to a decline but if he doesn't snap out of it there isn't much of a difference.

 

[MassPats38]

This is an aspect that I am really concerned about moving forward, not to mention very surprised.

With Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Connelly, and Vollmer (with either one of Cannon and/or Gronk being added in on bigger packages) one would think that we should have a pretty decent offensive line.

This is an issue that WILL be addressed with a high draft pick in April, as I honestly don't see any other option.

Of all the areas of concern in the beginning of the season, that was one area I believed to be solid. These jailbreak rushes on Brady have to slow down, or we may not have to discuss whether he is declining with age. He will likely be joining the major defensive pieces in rehab efforts after he gets his head removed from his body.

 

[Deus Irae]

You can take away everything that the receivers did wrong and you can still see Brady's poor play. Bad reads, bad throws, missing wide open receivers...

No, you can't, because you have no idea what the receivers were supposed to be doing on a given play. The closest we can come is to guess by the reactions of the players.

We know Brady missed Dobson on the outside because the ball sailed and Brady cussed himself out. We don't know for certain who's screwing up when Thompkins gets a ball at his feet, though, because we don't know if he ran the right depth or not.

Most of the complaints about Brady have been just piss poor guesswork.

 

[supafly]

You can take away everything that the receivers did wrong and you can still see Brady's poor play. Bad reads, bad throws, missing wide open receivers. Of course, every QB is going to have bad plays, its just that he has them at a greater rate then he ever has before. I want to believe that this might be an adjustment phase as he is learning all these new players but I have to leave open some possibilities that he is in a decline. Obviously it has to happen at some point.

For one thing, the high percentage, quick timing passes of 5-10 yards have pretty much been cut back dramatically, so that should come into play. Manning is continuing to make a living off of them, but since Welker left it doesn't seem as though we've used them as much.

Brady was never "great" at the deeper balls aside from maybe 2007, but I do agree that he's looked a lot worse this year in that aspect, probably due to timing issues.

I don't think he's suddenly declining enough to the point where he can't go out there and throw a beautiful downfield throw anymore, no. I think he's going to statistically have one of his worst yrs ever due to the changing of parts with the receiving options.

The front office should have gotten him one more viable target and/or re-signed Welker in the process. He's being asked to do too much in my opinion. I do not honestly believe that there is another NFL QB who could pull this off under these circumstances. Let's see Brees, Rodgers, and Manning totally throw out all of their weapons and start over with no-named rookies...

 

[supafly]

Of all the areas of concern in the beginning of the season, that was one area I believed to be solid. These jailbreak rushes on Brady have to slow down, or we may not have to discuss whether he is declining with age. He will likely be joining the major defensive pieces in rehab efforts after he gets his head removed from his body.

Just last year Brady was timed at having the quickest release in the entire NFL at one point--something like 2.4 seconds on average.

It just seems to me that this year we're waiting too long to have routes developed on a lot of plays, and that's got to change a bit if we're going to continue to try and prolong his career, which is exactly what I thought the quick timing passes were partially doing. It's one more reason why I am missing Welker, although I'm doing my best to keep those thoughts to myself.

It's going to be hard to get rid of the ball as quickly with this particular situation, at least that is how I am seeing it anyway.

 

[MassPats38]

I've seen Brady play with a whole bunch of new nobodies and rookies and play much better then he is right now. Like I said, I'm still open to the notion that they will turn things around and that is mostly because there are still stretches when he looks like him old self. I think most of his issues are a lack of trust as opposed to a decline but if he doesn't snap out of it there isn't much of a difference.

When did this happen? The biggest change in Brady's career was, I believe 2006, and that was Branch and Givens. Everyone but JE is new this year. Who is the go to guy that Brady can fall back on if all else goes to crap? Picture 2006 with 3 Chad Jacksons (perish the thought), no Troy Brown, and no Watson or Graham. Kevin Faulk would also not be on that team (he would be Woodhead or Vereen). That is probably a closer comparison, and not particularly pretty. And it is worth noting, in his prime at age 29, his statistics fell way off (yardage down 600 yards from prior year and increased by 1300 yards in 2007). His passer rating was a pedestrian 87.