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What's the Deal with QB Bramlett ?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BelichickFan, May 14, 2006.

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  1. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Curran said this :

    "The only player near as impressive as Jackson yesterday was undrafted quarterback Corey Bramlett out of Wyoming"

    and Bramlett signed a 3 year deal which suggests there was interest around the league that we had to give him a decent bonus and chose spread it out (stealing from Miguel there). Bramlett was a total non-entity in the pre-draft books. He's piqued my interest though.
  2. kazz64

    kazz64 Rookie

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    Rookie FA from Wyoming. His brother (Casey) started there, too, before him, and spent a season with the Bengals, and is now with the Redskins.

    PS guy, maybe.
  3. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    He is obviously the next Brady.


    Not sure if it's Greg, Peter, or Bobby. :D
  4. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think that we will carry 4 QB's on the roster this year. I hope that Flutie decides to retire. He's had a fine career but is not he answer anymore.

    We do need a vet backup. Maybe Fielder if he has healed. He's smart enough to pick up the system and has some talent if Cassel is not ready to step in, if we need him to.
  5. edzo44

    edzo44 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Belichick is trying to build depth at Quarterback too, just like any other position. He learned some valuable lessons from the Brady episode. If he can build a quarterback pool for the team of smart, strong QB's with good game management skills and evasive ability he'd be in an excellent situation.

    By having knowledgeable backups for an injury situation or for potential trades for draft spots he improves the team either way. Ideally he might find Brady's true backup as well as a set of QB's that can continue to have the time to learn the system and hopefully get some actual game time either in NFL Europe or preferably in NFL games instead of needing a utilitarian "experienced" NFL quarterback who is at the end of his career.

    All he'd have to do would be to concentrate on offense for a draft with an eye towards building a powerful offensive scoring team so that you could be playing and hopefully build good leads in a game. Then rest your primary quarterback (for a change!) a quarter or so and give good quality playing time to the backup Quarterback(s). It would take a few more offensive pass catching weapons, another really explosive back to spell Dillon and a real mean and nasty roadgrader style offensive line built to runblock or passblock.

    Hmmmm. Now why does that look somewhat more interesting after this draft???

    :rolleyes:
  6. Fumblerooski

    Fumblerooski Rookie

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    Flutie will decide if he is retiing by the end of this week according to an article I read yesterday. He may go into broadcasting.

    A lot of this depends on how far THEY THINK Cassell has advanced. If he can step in for Brady for a few series or a game or two, they may decide to stick with a younger back up. If they do not feel he can do it, they will bring in a vet - either Flutie or one of the others out there.

    Let's face it - if the Pats lose Brady for any extended time, they are probably toast anyway. This is of course if they can't totally dominate the other team via the running and short passing ball control game, which could happen with all the emphasis this season being on the offense for a welcome change.
  7. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Fumblerooski! you're Back! where have you been ?
    using another screen name? Anyway I had missed you there for awhile.

    I agree it depends where Cassell is. He looked pretty good end of last season.
    I could see him running this offense. Tom seems to think highly of him.
    I betting he's #2 this year.
    Last edited: May 14, 2006
  8. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now, substitute "Bledsoe" in the above quote for "Brady."

    Brady came along nicely. But he was showing very little in 2001, remember. He was accurate, and a winner, but he was a ball-control tool for the most part. A lot like Rothlisburger in Pittsburgh, except that he didn't STAY that way and Ben, so far, has.

    The #1 goes down, and you put the #2 into a ball-control situation. The running game, with the addition of Maroney, is ready to handle that. The D, with the situation at linebacker (and at safety, until Rodney is back,) may not be ready.

    Get in a situation where you're playing from behind, and a #2 guy has to grow up a little too fast. Keep the situation to a competitive game, and the #2 guy (and are season) are not necessarily toast.

    I kind of get sick of reading this, even in the context of Brady. It's hard not to value him really highly - but like everyone else, it is possible he will be injured one of these days. Believing that everything hinges on one player - even Brady - is just a tad Un-Patriotic, in my eyes.

    PFnV
    Last edited: May 14, 2006
  9. JustWinBrady

    JustWinBrady Rookie

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    Belichick gave the rookie kicker flutie's locker. That might tell you where the team is headed.
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A couple of thoughts:

    Brady wants Flutie back, and judging from the fact that it appears the choice is Doug's it would appear that BB does too. That's good enough for me. He knows this system, players, coaches, drill, is willing to mentor (which some QB's looking to hang on or catch on are not) and he is a student of the game who can mimic opposing QB's and run the scout team.

    If they were on the fence about Cassel's ability to perform under fire he'd have been sent to NFLE. He wasn't because he progressed so well in his first season he is already too valuable to risk injury just putting on mileage in an unrelated system. They were better served keeping him close to home and Tommy because the #2 job is his unless he inexplicably falls apart entering year 2. He's had more in game experience than the last guy who vaulted from #4 to #2 in a season and was held out of NFLE.

    BB considers a veteran player one with 8-10 years of NFL experience. Tommy is entering year 7. By next season with Cassel entering year 3 they won't need the grizzled veteran backup QB so BB appears to be looking for developmental guys to put in the pipeline. Cassel is signed for 5 years and is a potential Brady replacement albeit (hopefully) a few years too early. He could have some serious trade value in 2007 or 2008 much like Matt Schaub in Atlanta - whom the JETS tried to trade Abraham for. If they have located another diamond in the rough in Bramlett (smart game manager willing to work hard at his craft who has the tools and can already make all the throws) he'll stick one way or another. Mortenson is more the guy with some tools and longshot potential so he was sent off to NFLE to see if there is something there worth working with.

    Flutie would save them the trouble of dealing with a Fiedler or whomever who would have to learn the system and his place and who might not be prepared to play mentor and scout QB while expending the effort to be ready in the unlikely chance he is needed. Flutie has always been durable. Fiedler can't even throw yet which is why the Giants, who are looking at him to potentially replace Hasselback at #2, are holding off on even having him in.
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are a few issues here. Backup QB's perform various functions. All three QB's are suited up for the game.

    BACKUP FOR A FEW PLAYS OR A GAME OR TWO
    Cassell clearly can do this. If this is all we want, then Bramlett is a fine #3.

    BACKUP FOR A FEW GAMES - A TRUE NUMBER TWO
    We need to consider ourselves a team that can succeed with Brady for several games, and figure out how to do it. Quarterbacks go down. We must do all we can to protect Brady (we're doing that); and we must make sure that we can succeed with the loss of one player. Many top teams, especially dynasty teams, have survived with injuries to a top player, any top player.

    This is what a backup QB is all about. Many of us were satsified when Huard was here. He was capable of running the offense. And we have had many situations in the past where the #2 could actually run the team. In the days of Grogan and Eason, both got us to the playoffs, Eason got the monkey off our back in Miami. All of us would much rather have seen Grogan get demolished by the Bears (the best single season team of all time) instead of Eason, but that is another post.

    Cassell may be up to the task. How well does he understand NFL schemes? Would top DC's have a field day with him? I don't know. My preference is always to have a veteran as one of the backups. Would we be better or worse off with say a Jeff Blake on the squad instead of Bramlett. What does a young QB add?

    SOMEONE FOR BRADY TO WORK WITH
    This is an important role of a veteran QB. Brady needs someone to compare notes with, someone to discuss the game with, and someone who might come up with ideas, in addition to the coaches.

    BOTTOM LINE
    Maybe no one is out there. Maybe Cassell is the man. Maybe bb is trying to find out. In any case, we have the four camp QB's we need. Was it Major Applewhite in this situation last year? I still think that we will bring in a veteran, even if we think that Cassell is ready. A veteran is more useful that an UDFA.

    And BTW, we don't care about spreading $50K bonuses this year. If we keep him, there won't be an ERFA dance each year.
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It amazes me when even to this day some folks just can't acknowledge how much of this teams success is Brady. Not making any mistakes in a panic to dig a deeper hole is the game manager operating within the system. Those game winning drives even in 2001 were not the work of a game manager. It's the mark of a potential HOF'er. Having the capacity to do that repeatedly and consistently is the mark of a first ballot HOF'er.

    Playing on this team within this system will benefit any QB with the requisite temperment and skills. BB seems to have embraced that strategy post Kingsbury and Davey. It is likely a good technician could keep this team in contention. It remains unlikely they could carry this team to a Lombardi when those around them falter. That is what Brady has done in 3 of the last 5 seasons. So in that sense this team remains potentially toast should Brady be lost for any length of time. That is not a de-valuation of Belichick or the system. It simply is what it is. Luckily for us amongst his many talents is durability.
  13. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This makes sense to me. Last season I was part of the rabid throng predicting that Cassel would make the roster, even though it meant displacing the established #2 QB Davey. But this season I'll predict that Bramlet has no chance at the roster, even though there's a wide open slot.

    It's just a different equation with Cassel penciled in as #2. He's your developmental prospect. What's still lacking is, as mgteich describes, your clipboard/sounding board guy -- a steady, savvy vet. But I love QBs on the practice squad...here's hoping Bramlet shows enough to stick there.
  14. Patriotic Fervor

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    The thing that alerted me back in '01 was during training camp an out-of-town reporter said, "If I didn't know Drew Bledsoe was here, I'd say this was Tom Brady's team."

    Those types of observations just shouldn't go unnoticed.

    Will someone say something similar at some point in the future about Cassel or Bramlett? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't happen very often, but when it does, it should pique our collective interest.

    FWIW, I think Bramlett makes the team. (Yeah, Doug retires.)
    Last edited: May 14, 2006
  15. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

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    Well, I'm not sure how the Patriots view NFLE as a developmental opportunity for QB's.

    It's critical that the QB, above all, is intimately familiar with the offensive system, and understands defensive coverages he is likely to see. The Pats may well believe that the QB has a better chance of developing in the offseason program, with film and drills and study, than in an entirely different system.

    Also, the value of good NFLE performance must be in question after Rohan Davey tore up the league a few winters back, but couldn't fit into the Pats system. In Europe, he was flinging the ball on roll-outs over the NFLE DB's. That just didn't work as well in the NFL, and he seemed to have a harder time picking up the Pats quick-decision system than the NFLE game.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2005
  16. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Look, you guys think this thing with Bledsoe going down and Brady taking the job and winning a SB... and becoming a potential (and soon, surefire) Hall of Famer... happens all the time. It doesn't. It's happened probably once in the history of pro football. To imply that if Brady (the best QB in the league, not a top 10 like Bledsoe) got hurt, Cassel or Fiedler or Bramlett or Flutie would step up and lead the team to a Super Bowl is ludicrous. This is Tom Brady's football team. If he gets hurt, then the season is lost, barring a miracle from God. Lightning, for the most part, doesn't strike twice.
  17. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What's the deal with QB double letters?

    BTW, if you're looking for a parallel between Bramlett and Cassell, consider that they're really Bramlet and Cassel.

    -patchickk
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2005
  18. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Knew I'd bring down the wrath of the faithful.

    Yeah, of course, the Pats are toast, we should move on from drinking the kool-aid to digging the mass grave, etc., etc., etc., should the unthinkable happen and Brady go down.

    Of course by taking a contrary opinion to that considered diagnosis, I was devaluing Brady's demigod status etc. etc. etc.

    Ladies, de-bunch your knickers. Nobody thinks the Brady emergence happens more than once a blue moon. But the notion that the team is toast with the loss of Brady comes from absolutely the wrong mindset. No one man's loss destroys this team. I don't think they believe it does, and I don't believe it does. That would include the loss of Brady.

    In 2001? Regular season - 18 TDs in 14 games. A little more than one per game. 2800 yards, about 200 per game. Great first (real) year numbers, but you have to ask, what was he doing before the game's final drive every week? He did a great job, and I think him to be the best QB in the league. That some out-of-town reporter noticed leadership potential is interesting, but had Brady filled in then been brushed aside, it would be just one more thing an out-of-town reporter said.

    No, another Brady doesn't emerge when Brady goes down, most likely. But it's just plain silly to insist that Brady personally did it all in 2001, and it is just plain silly to insist Bramlet or Cassel would have to if called to fill in.

    It's also ridiculous to punt the season - as you guys are fiercely insisting we will and must - if the Great Man is injured. That's Aikman/Smith/Irvin thinking, not Brady/Dillon/Faulk/Maroney/Branch/Jackson/[Your Name Here] thinking.

    Everybody loves to set up the straw man and knock him down. Now read back. The point of my post was this:

    The season is not toast if Brady goes down.

    Think about the premise you argue so vehemently for - and then go get either your Pepto Bismol or your Colts jersey, depending on your sympathies, when you realize what you're saying about the Patriots and their ability to react to adversity - any adversity.

    PFnV
  19. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Measure of a contender's backup QB.

    When it comes to backup QBs a contender's backup QB should pass the "Earl Morral" test. Is he good enough to do his job and let the talent on the Team win? if yes, he's a qualified backup.

    If not, fire him and sign someone else who is...
  20. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    This is exactly what everyone said when Bledsoe went down. We were coming off a 5-11 season, our best WR was put on the sidelines by the FO and our QB goes down.

    I dont' recall many positive thoughts back then, not until about week 12 or 13, anyway.

    We all felt good about Brady toward the end of the season, but after the Denver game, we were ready to hang up the season. (Except for the delusional homers, of course.)

    When Maddox went down, who thought, "Oh, my God, that rookie Rothliesberger will come in and set the league on fire and win about 15 games in a row and rerun the Steelers to glory after their 6-10 season.

    The point is that you don't know who will step up.

    Do not make the mistake of thinking the team is dead without Brady. Don't underestimate Cassel.
  21. VJCPatriot

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    BB will keep 4 QBs if he feels the value is there. It's too soon to say whether Bramlett can do anything yet just based off 2 days of rookie minicamp. But I get the sense that BB wants to continue to "work with" Bramlett. Whether Bramlett sticks depends on how well he does with the offseason program and then whether he responds during the big tryout known as training camp.
  22. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    Patchickk, you've just outed yourself ... so you're a QUARTERBACK !
    (Or is it "outted"?)
  23. Patriotic Fervor

    Patriotic Fervor Rookie

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    I remember that Colts team back in the early 60's (1965). First Unitas went down.

    Not a problem. 2nd string Gary Cuozzo answers the call, and they keep on winning. But then Cuozzo goes down.

    What do they do now?

    Halfback Tom Matte becomes QB. Life becomes more difficult, and in the end, the great team falters, and doesn't win the championship.

    That was an extraordinary chain of events, and I don't know if any team before or after went through something like that.

    Sometimes, the best laid plans of mice and men....
    Last edited: May 15, 2006
  24. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Luckily, these days there are many more QBs in FA than there used to be.

    Teams have lost two QBs in one game.

    Jets once beat us with Tom Tupa playing QB.
  25. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For the Patriots, the NFLE is a requirement of doing business. We don't use the NFLE to develop players. We'd rather them be at home with the playbook, talking to team mates, and participating in the various opportunities to learn.

    Obviously, we should have traded Davey the day he finished int eh NFLE. Many here said that.

    For me, the NFLE isn't at the quality of the Arena League, certainly not at the quality of college football. And being around town, and participating in minicamp and training camp, is much more important than working out with scrubs in Europe.

  26. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    Depends on what you consider an extened period of time. If we lost brady say for 10-12 games, yeah I could see the season ending earlier then we would like. If we are talking 4-6 games, then I think with Cassel, we could win about half of them and still be heading into the play-offs. Especially given we are in the AFC east.

    The only situation I would be nervous with Cassel coming in, (if Tom goes down for more than half the season I wouldn't be nervous, I would be looking at college games getting ready for next years draft), would be with five min to go and a three point deficit. He simply does not have the pressure cooker experience to get into rythm that fast. I would like a veteran for that situation, but then again, I'm not sure I want to waste a roster spot for just that situation. I will have to trust BB, like it is all that hard, on the value of a veteran QB for such an event.

    IMHO, the current patriots philosohpy on quarterbacks is unchaged from when Tom was drafted. Take riskes on guys that can fit your line of thinking and then see how they perform. I think Davey was brought in do to the Saban connection and he did not do well in our offensive system. But strings of 6th and 7th round selections as well as UDFA allow you to find a couple of good developmental players.

    Bramlet, IIRC, said himself that he turned down offers from the Colt and the Broncos based on the fact that he has seen that the Patriots do a great job at developing talent. He esentially said he would rather be the PS quarterback for the pats then the 3rd or 4th quarterback anywhere else.
  27. Brady-To-Branch

    Brady-To-Branch Rookie

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    Agreed. Just to add...

    BB likes having as many extra bodies at TC as he can get and NFLE has roster exemptions that allow this. Moreover, BB won't cut the NFLE guys during the first round of required roster reductions in order to continue using extras for the final 2 preseason games. Without these exemptions, there would be no practical use for NFLE.

    BTW, why do we need 3 QBs? Use Brady and Cassel and have a QB (Bramlet?) on the PS.
    Last edited: May 15, 2006
  28. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Because if a guy is on the practicce squad, we don't "have" him. He is basically a free agent getting paid to practice with us. As soon as another team thinks he is any good, better than their 53rd player, he is gone. Remeber stashing RB Cory Chapman on the practice squad last year? How did that work out when we needed a RB last in the season?

    That is why even Kliff Kingsbury went on IR for the year rather than the PS.

    We tried to shift Eckel onto the practice squad last year.

    It is much easier for the Cards, Lions, etc to keep their players on the practice squad. The problem is that the Pats have too much talent at the low end of the roster, and the Pats have drafted too well lately. Even if a team is unsure, they know that the Pats think he is good and therefore he might be better than they were led to believe.

    The practice squad is very helpful, but you have to cut a player and put him on waivers before signing him to the squad. It is best if you are okay with losing him forever. If you are okay with that, like the the lower tier OL we have been putting there, and some of the marginal DBs, then great. But not your third QB option, if that is how you are looking at him.
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