What's Missing From Running Game?

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I disagree about KC and SD. Trent Green has been pretty prolific as a Chief as a QB, though they don't have allstar receivers, they have an excellent passing game. SD has been in the top 5 in scoring the last few years, and I'm sure that it isn't soley because of a good running game. Neither teams have allstar receivers, but they do have all-world TE's.

I think most of the teams who consistently run well have better O-Lines than us, and maybe better schemes as far as rushing than us. I really wish we would switch to the zone blocking scheme, it is tailor made for Maroney. I think we over rate our O-Line, I think it is pretty average, with Light and Koppen being the only above average linemen.

I think our O-Line is very inconsistent and has been overrated for a number of years now, basically since 2002. We need a left tackle with talent, not just functional strength. They play as good as they get coached on a particular week but then slip back into mediocrity. I never know which level of O-Line performance will show up in a given week. And I don't think Brady does either.

But mainly we just refuse to be a running team, starting at the coaching level. We should run the ball 50 times against a team like the Colts, 20-25 times for each back and maybe a small amount of Faulk towards the end.

We have a lack of WR talent and still we don't run the ball enough. Even the Colts are much more willing to go to the running game than us, if it works. Go figure.

The O-Line would run block better if we had unique schemes to take advantage of an individual RB's talent, and if we called a lot more running plays against soft defenses.

So far, neither scenario has been in the cards.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

The OL simply isn't blowing other teams off the line. Whether it's lack of physical ability, scheme, or somehow related to the passing game, I'm not sure. But I'm tired of seeing Maroney get dumped at the line of scrimmage. He's not a power back and needs space to work with to be effective.

Maroney is getting stuffed because the Pats call the same run plays a thousand times in a row. Unlike what some people want you to believe, that is a problem that STARTS with the head coach, not the OC. The head coach calls the shots, and he has indicated that he wants a simple offense with straight ahead run plays and the same blocking scheme regardless of who is running the ball. Well, fine. Get some talent on the O-Line and then run simple plays. If you are going to build a O-Line out of smaller guys, than use them to get the running back out in space more. But using the same blocking scheme all season is not the solution. Dillon and Maroney require different blocking schemes and need to run to different areas. Maroney is not an inside runner. Dillon is no longer an outside threat unless the play develops really well to free him up.

It is beyond me why we would have one of the most complex passing offenses in the league and also have one of the most simplistic run offenses.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

in this order...

1) playcalling

2) inconsistent run-blocking from the OL

2a) Corey being old, Lawrence being young.

I agree with all your points. Everyone thinks the Pats offensive line is great at run blocking. and in addition to that...Stephen Neal and O'Callaghan have had injuries. IMO Light is alright at passblocking but extremely inconsistent at runblocking. You have to assume Light is still working back form the leg injury last season.

The pass blocking is pretty good.

The run blocking is overrated. The Pats are not a power run team.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I think our O-Line is very inconsistent and has been overrated for a number of years now, basically since 2002. We need a left tackle with talent, not just functional strength. They play as good as they get coached on a particular week but then slip back into mediocrity. I never know which level of O-Line performance will show up in a given week. And I don't think Brady does either.

But mainly we just refuse to be a running team, starting at the coaching level. We should run the ball 50 times against a team like the Colts, 20-25 times for each back and maybe a small amount of Faulk towards the end.

We have a lack of WR talent and still we don't run the ball enough. Even the Colts are much more willing to go to the running game than us, if it works. Go figure.

The O-Line would run block better if we had unique schemes to take advantage of an individual RB's talent, and if we called a lot more running plays against soft defenses.

So far, neither scenario has been in the cards.

I read your points and they are right on target which is why i hate that power I-formation with double TE's.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Am I missing something here?

Through 11 games: Maroney 152/610 4.0 ave Dillon 132/550 4.2 average

Total rushing yard between the two 1,160. If that pace continues, they will have 1,687 yards between them. I think that's pretty damn good,but that's me.

So tell me, what is the point that I'm missing here?

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Am I missing something here?

Through 11 games: Maroney 152/610 4.0 ave Dillon 132/550 4.2 average

Total rushing yard between the two 1,160. If that pace continues, they will have 1,687 yards between them. I think that's pretty damn good,but that's me.

So tell me, what is the point that I'm missing here?

Here's the following yardage:
(Maroney and Dillon combined)

Buffalo- 159
Jets- 145
Denver- 34(you could say pass offense was bad, but pats couldn't run at all)
Cincy- 192(bad run defense)
Dolphins- 83
Buffalo- 76
Vikings- 39(didn't try to run)
Indy- 111(majority of yards in the first half)
Jets-135(Dillon ripped off a 50 yard run)- field sucked
Packers-113
Bears 73

I think the stats are a bit skewed against bad run defenses. I think the bottom line is they struggle against teams with good linebackers.

The pats aren't consistent being able to run when they want to run.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Am I missing something here?

Through 11 games: Maroney 152/610 4.0 ave Dillon 132/550 4.2 average

Total rushing yard between the two 1,160. If that pace continues, they will have 1,687 yards between them. I think that's pretty damn good,but that's me.

So tell me, what is the point that I'm missing here?

Teams that do a good job of run blitzing have shut down the the running game, especially Maroney. Dillon can't carry the ball 20/game anymore. Maroney struggles as a single back and Heath Evans is a RB in a FB's body.

Denver stifled the Pats by playing their athletic LBs at LOS.

Indy sent Bob Sanders to blitz the run gaps, etc. One cannot expect a O-lineman to block two guys at once.

The best way to beat a run blitz is to have a FB that will knock a safety/LB in the teeth. For some reason, McDaniels shies away from it.

The TEs can't block. Graham has missed a lot of PT and Watson's blocking is atrocious.

 

[shirtsleeve]

And since no one else jumped on this...

Whats missing from running game? Thats easy, the hunters! Or they wouldn't be running anymore!

Just had to do it in light of the ongoing deer season.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Show me a team that racks up yardage good run stopping teams. That is why you have both a passing game and a running game. I think we are pretty well balanced right now.

Also, our field has not been the best to run on until they changed the turf. Let's see how things go now that the surface has been changed.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Am I missing something here?

Through 11 games: Maroney 152/610 4.0 ave Dillon 132/550 4.2 average

Total rushing yard between the two 1,160. If that pace continues, they will have 1,687 yards between them. I think that's pretty damn good,but that's me.

So tell me, what is the point that I'm missing here?

Okay, the point you are missing here is that Dillon achieved that on his own a couple years ago. Add plenty of Maroney and a little less Dillon than 2004, and we should be easily over 2,000 yards, which has been done by single running backs from time to time. More like 2,200 yards. That would have directly contributed to far less interceptions for Brady, and perhaps his back wouldn't be bothering him recently or he wouldn't have gotten hit nearly so much (which prompted the signing of Vinnie, IMO.) At any rate, it would have opened up things for the WRs and the passing game.

But with our repetitive and unchanging blocking schemes, we look bad running against some teams, with Maroney in particular getting stuffed.

When our WRs struggle, we should run to pick up the slack. That means running the ball a lot this year, and being a power running team. A power running team runs the ball down people's throat. Not just against bad defenses, not just when we don't feel like passing, not just when we are ahead, but all the time.

Running the ball is an attitude. Cowher would run the ball all game until it worked, and win the game in the process, at least when he had the RBs. We don't need to go that far, but we don't seem to have much logic to when we run and when we give up on the run game and simply throw the ball over and over. Dillon and Maroney ought to be workhorses, not benchwarmers.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

The Indy game was the biggest McDaniels screwup of all of them. We were onloy behind 14-10 at the half, if I remember correctly. And we had run for 100 yards in the first half alone.

Then, for whatever reason McDaniels abandoned the run (Maroney had only 4 touches in the 2nd half) and the rest of the game is history.

Even though I, for one, love to pass to set up the run, we had the running game going against a team that sucks, literally sucks, against the run..and McDaniels abandoned it.

Absolute lunacy on his part.

That game was there to be won...and as far asd I cm concerned, McdDaniels blew it.

In the Jets game, overall, his play calling was horrendous.

The Patriots first 7 runs in the 2nd half netted them a total of 13 yards. 4 out of those 7 runs were for 0 or *negative* yardage. The Colts had 9 in the box, and were run blitzing Sanders on nearly every play.

McDaniels went away from the run in the 2nd half because the Colts were selling out vs. it and stopping it effectively. Trying to pass them out of it was the logical call.

Had he kept at the running game, and it kept getting stuffed, you would just have trotted out your old saw about the definition of insanity.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

The Indy game was the biggest McDaniels screwup of all of them. We were onloy behind 14-10 at the half, if I remember correctly. And we had run for 100 yards in the first half alone.

Then, for whatever reason McDaniels abandoned the run (Maroney had only 4 touches in the 2nd half) and the rest of the game is history.

Even though I, for one, love to pass to set up the run, we had the running game going against a team that sucks, literally sucks, against the run..and McDaniels abandoned it.

Absolute lunacy on his part.

That game was there to be won...and as far asd I cm concerned, McdDaniels blew it.



In the Jets game, overall, his play calling was horrendous.

I agree on the Indy game. It irked me when they were rolling and then Brady forced it into the end zone and it got picked off. That was on Brady for forcing it. Brady's passes were unusually high also. But they should have ran more.

The Jet game I feel the field was also a contributor also. Similar to the Indy game the PAts were getting very good rushing yardage on the right side of their line. They were exploiting the Jets and for some reason they got away from it. Just give me one MAroney draw, as I recal that was his very first play of his career in the Buffalo opener and he got a first down on I think it was 3 and 18.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Its not how many yards you gain, its when you gain them.

Its not how many times you run the ball, its when you run the ball.

I can name you quarterbakcs, like Jake Plummer, who had thousands of yards passing, year after year for the Cardinals...but never won any games..BECAUSE IT WAS WHEN HE WAS GETTING THOSE YARDS.

Same thing with rushing yardage... WHEN, AND UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES WERE THOSE YARDS ATTAINED.

The truth is, our running game can be much more potent if not handcuffed by inferior play calling, at the wrong times, and against the wrong defenses, and if it isnt forced into strong run defenses and then not used against weaker ones, like the Colts.

And, we arent using our passing game early enough to force defenses out of run defense and out of the 7 and 8 man box. If we attacked in that manner, our running game could be very potent, at the right times, not the wrong times.

Well stated. Like getting 170 yards against Detroit will skew stats even more. But that's all they are...... they're stats.

 

[carolinatony]

Do we need to draft a Big run blocking OLman next year? Would this help besides a better passing game.
The Chiefs used to have those pro bowls on their OL and run right over you.
We have plenty of picks next year to take one.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Do we need to draft a Big run blocking OLman next year? Would this help besides a better passing game.
The Chiefs used to have those pro bowls on their OL and run right over you.
We have plenty of picks next year to take one.

I would not be shocked, although a bit disappointed, if they did. If they do so, I just pray for a defensive #1cb or safety and 2nd rounder defensive player.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Do we need to draft a Big run blocking OLman next year? Would this help besides a better passing game.
The Chiefs used to have those pro bowls on their OL and run right over you.
We have plenty of picks next year to take one.

Okay youve said this a few times in numerous areas. I dont understand who'd you want to replace?

Light is still under a contract and is playing DECENTLY he has bad days and good so ill give him the benefit of the doubt
Mankins was drafted number 1 almost two years ago. Only has had one penalty all season and plays incredibly well in both aspects of the game.
Koppen just got a big contract from the team and is essentially the man who makes that line go. Another great run and pass blocker.
Neal just got his money last year and is playing well since being back from his injury
O'Cal and Kaczur have the RT spot rounded out and both are very good players who are young and will only get better with time.


I dont know who'd you want to replace?

Even Hochstein is locked up and Paxton.

 

[unoriginal]

Okay youve said this a few times in numerous areas. I dont understand who'd you want to replace?

Light is still under a contract and is playing DECENTLY he has bad days and good so ill give him the benefit of the doubt
Mankins was drafted number 1 almost two years ago. Only has had one penalty all season and plays incredibly well in both aspects of the game.
Koppen just got a big contract from the team and is essentially the man who makes that line go. Another great run and pass blocker.
Neal just got his money last year and is playing well since being back from his injury
O'Cal and Kaczur have the RT spot rounded out and both are very good players who are young and will only get better with time.


I dont know who'd you want to replace?

Even Hochstein is locked up and Paxton.

Well, the answer's there in your post, if you want to consider it. Matt Light, LT. The other fourr already are, or have the potential to be, very very good at their positions. Light is kind of average.

Of course, replacing Light would come at potentially exorbitant cost. Premier blind-side tackles usually cost a high first, and their antecedent contracts are generally huge. Matt Light provides reasonable performance at a reasonable price. I don't see the Pats moving to replace him unless a stud slides down to them Vince Wilfork-style. I think Graham and Samuel are gone, so most of the high picks will be spent with an eye towards the TE unit and the defensive secondary, best-available-player type stuff cooperating.

And really, what are the odds that the Pats will find a sliding LT they like? Marcus McNeill has made the Chargers look like a genius this last draft, but he has an Adrian Klemm-esqe injury history. I can't see the Pats willingly going through that again.

 

[RayClay]

At the beginning of the season, our running game seemed on the verge of excellence. Somewhere around the Miami game, it stopped.

For a while, there were things I blamed it on, but now, Danny Graham's back, our starting oline is healthy, and even when our passing game has been effective, we still don't seem to be rushing as effectively.

It's certainly forgiveable to be held to 3 yards a carry by a defense like Chicago, but man, we should have been able to tear up Green Bay on the ground like Seattle did. Against poor run defenses like the Jets and Indi, we were having some success, but still, it seemed like too often, our runners were being met in the backfield.

In fact, one of the things I noticed in both the GB and Chicago games is that it seems like our backs are picking up 95% of their yardage after first contact. Our oline is giving them creases but never holes to hit. I find this curious, as it seems like we have a young oline that's full of talent, and frequently praised -- especially our guys inside.

Let me say, I'm not trying to chicken-little here -- I'm not saying the running game is awful and that our season is over or anything..

It just seems to me like we have all the parts we wanted in place, and I'm a little surprised the results haven't been as spectacular as I thought.

You had a problem with the offense in the Green Bay game?