What's missing from recent Patriots teams?

[Mack Herron]

Great comments. They are missing a pass rusher and will not acquire one this year, but Mayo, Chung, and Meriweather all have some rushing skills that are underutilized. On the absence of a power running game, I know Morris and Taylor are hurt and Maroney fumbled, but what happened to BJGE on Sunday? I thought he got only a few calls in an exclusively blocking role. Of the three backs available, he is the strongest inside runner.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've felt and always will feel that Ty Law made the difference. Not only for his playmaking capabilities but with his presence in essentially shutting down one side of the field was immense in helping the pass rush and coverage schemes in other areas.

BB knew this. Thus the reason he never cut him and let him play under the deal in which he was under from the 1998 extension.

My .02$

 

[The Dynasty]

Great comments. They are missing a pass rusher and will not acquire one this year, but Mayo, Chung, and Meriweather all have some rushing skills that are underutilized. On the absence of a power running game, I know Morris and Taylor are hurt and Maroney fumbled, but what happened to BJGE on Sunday? I thought he got only a few calls in an exclusively blocking role. Of the three backs available, he is the strongest inside runner.

BJGE was sick and was throwing up at halftime. He probably is the strongest inside runner out of the 3 RBs that were active, but lets me honest he really isnt anything more than a 3rd RB in the NFL.

 

[Mack Herron]

BJGE was sick and was throwing up at halftime. He probably is the strongest inside runner out of the 3 RBs that were active, but lets me honest he really isnt anything more than a 3rd RB in the NFL.

Sure, but if you think you might go for it on fourth down, the 3rd down call has to be a run. At the very least, it forces the Colts to spend a TO (and maybe saves us one). And if they get one yard on 3rd, the 4th down pass is a first down.

 

[RussFrancis]

We're missing a HAMMER at RB. Simple to me. We dont have anyone we can rely on, who's been able so stay healthy for the duration. We have a reliable, power RB who can help move the chains, and we're not losing to either Denver or the Colts. Get us a real RB, and you'll see us win those close games again. Kind sucks imo thinking that's really all that's held us back in '07 and this season. Had we had a hammer to pound that Giants' Dline, and this team has 4 rings going on 5. jmho.

 

[shmessy]

Poor situational and clock game management.

We need an OC.

There is no good reason why the Patriots are not 8-1.

 

[The Dynasty]

Sure, but if you think you might go for it on fourth down, the 3rd down call has to be a run. At the very least, it forces the Colts to spend a TO (and maybe saves us one). And if they get one yard on 3rd, the 4th down pass is a first down.

I disagree. It doesnt have to be a run. The Colts were crowding the box and expecting the run. They probably wouldnt have gained a yard if they ran it. The play was executed the way we wanted, it just came up a few inches short

 

[borg]

Disagree with these points. I truely think Maroney is starting to come around. He has 4 TDs in his last 4 games and it seems like he is starting to run with a purpose. He fumbled on the goaline last week yes, but that could have been anyone in all honesty. It was a great hit right on the ball by the defense. Would we be saying this if it were Morris or Taylor?

I completely disagree with your center of the line statement. Neal, Mankins and Koppen have had solid years in my opinion. The weak link on the OL this year has been Kazur. It has been discussed on other threads that when Light comes back he will move to RT and Vollmer stays at LT.

Two plays to move the ball two yards...two rushes at a minimum remove seconds from the clock and/or force the Colts to burn a TO. BB opts for passing plays that burn no time. I view this as having little faith in his RB/line. Sure, the Pats chose to do what they do best, pass...but the SB winning teams of '01,'03,'04 all were capable of winning the LOS battles...but the redzone #s say that the '08, '09 teams lose these battles. Come playoff time, this team won't go very far with the finesse game....

 

[The Dynasty]

Two plays to move the ball two yards...two rushes at a minimum remove seconds from the clock and/or force the Colts to burn a TO. BB opts for passing plays that burn no time. I view this as having little faith in his RB/line. Sure, the Pats chose to do what they do best, pass...but the SB winning teams of '01,'03,'04 all were capable of winning the LOS battles...but the redzone #s say that the '08, '09 teams lose these battles. Come playoff time, this team won't go very far with the finesse game....

As I said in my last post. The Colts crowded the box and the Pats werent going to get any yards running the ball. It would have forced them to use TO's, but still not get a 1st down. If the Colts werent crowding the box and playing the pass I think we would have ran the ball twice and got the 1st down.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

3rd-and-2.
Against a Colts D not known to be stout vs. the run.
Mathis has owned Kaczur the entire quarter whenever Brady was throwing.

And the Pats pass the ball from shotgun...twice.

This could be spun in two directions: (1) The Pats have tons of confidence in Brady and their shotgun offense, or (2) the Pats have no confidence in their running game. It's never 100% one way or the other, but if I had to put a number on it I'd put it at 80% for #2.

THAT's what's missing from the recent Pats teams.

Regards,
Chris

 

[borg]

As I said in my last post. The Colts crowded the box and the Pats werent going to get any yards running the ball. It would have forced them to use TO's, but still not get a 1st down. If the Colts werent crowding the box and playing the pass I think we would have ran the ball twice and got the 1st down.

So, if a defense crowds the box against the Patriots, a Patriots running play will be stuffed everytime? They can't even average a yard per play? Seems we have a personnel issue. Why did Maroney fumble on the goal line earlier in the game. He wanted to go up the middle but was met behind the LOS by an unblocked Colt who dropped his hat on the ball. Center of the line failed, and LoMo failed to find right hole and secure ball. Again, the redzone numbers say the Pats stink in the red zone. I argue that the modest success that the Pats have had in rushing yards/game is due to their passing efficiency.Defenses concentrate on the passing attack first.

 

[Mack Herron]

The Colts crowded the box and the Pats werent going to get any yards running the ball. It would have forced them to use TO's, but still not get a 1st down. If the Colts werent crowding the box and playing the pass I think we would have ran the ball twice and got the 1st down.

Parcells, Ditka, Lombardi all cringe. This is the kind of thinking that has made the Pats soft. Sometimes in football you just have to line up and beat the other guys. Vollmer and Mankins are big and strong and the Colts are small and quick. The notion that the Colts are so awesome against the run in short yardage that we must throw up a white flag and abandon any attempt to run is just silly.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Looking at what's missing starts with what the SB juggernaught teams had...

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...10-then-vs-now-ring-years-vs-2005-beyond.html

Right now there are 3 ingredients missing in my view...

1. A reliable running game at the Antowain Smith level (never thought I'd say that) that reliably gets 2 yards or so when you absolutely have to have it. The 2009 team can't do that right now. Perhaps when Morris returns we'll have it although it's possible that the problem is with this OL as BB seems to indicate.

2. Good strategies and good calls from the OC and DC. The Weis Crennell era featured outstanding coordinators. Ours are a work in process with the outcome unknown.

3. A defense with several big play makers. The 2009 D has young fast players and FAs. One FA, McGowan looks like a playmaker as does Merry, who has been inconsistent recently. Other than at pass rush, I like the outlook for this D and am hopefull that they coalesce into a playmaking SB quality D, but it's not there yet.

 

[The Dynasty]

So, if a defense crowds the box against the Patriots, a Patriots running play will be stuffed everytime? They can't even average a yard per play? Seems we have a personnel issue. Why did Maroney fumble on the goal line earlier in the game. He wanted to go up the middle but was met behind the LOS by an unblocked Colt who dropped his hat on the ball. Center of the line failed, and LoMo failed to find right hole and secure ball. Again, the redzone numbers say the Pats stink in the red zone. I argue that the modest success that the Pats have had in rushing yards/game is due to their passing efficiency.Defenses concentrate on the passing attack first.

I agree that the Pats running game isnt their strength and teams do concentrate on their passing attack first. We never have really had a dominate running game, even in our 3 Super Bowl wins. We've always been known as a passing team first. Our WR screens to Welker are essentially running plays, which is one of the reasons why we dont run the ball as much. In the 1st half vs the Colts I think we did the best job of the season using the run to set up the pass and hope we use that plan more this season. You dont need to have a strong running game to win, you just cant be predictable. No where does it say to be a good team you need to run the ball on 3rd and 2 or 4th and 2. Theres nothing wrong with passing to get a 1st down.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Shape up Brady, no one care that you have a preg wife. Learn the play book. Remember them at the crunch time so coach can let you call plays at the end. Also, real Qb don't use wrist bands.

If he was thinking of preg'd Giselle, he needs to cut off his penis, so that he can put his mind into this game; okay that was overboard. Sorry.

Don't care to debate on this.

Do you call EEI from Chicago, say dumb things and hang up too?

What a galactically terrible post.

 

[Spiral]

The Patriots used to remind me of the Celtic teams of the 80's. They didn't out-talent the other elite teams, but they were well coached, didn't beat themselves, and they won more than their share of close games. Not so much any more.

 

[borg]

I agree that the Pats running game isnt their strength and teams do concentrate on their passing attack first. We never have really had a dominate running game, even in our 3 Super Bowl wins. We've always been known as a passing team first. Our WR screens to Welker are essentially running plays, which is one of the reasons why we dont run the ball as much. In the 1st half vs the Colts I think we did the best job of the season using the run to set up the pass and hope we use that plan more this season. You dont need to have a strong running game to win, you just cant be predictable. No where does it say to be a good team you need to run the ball on 3rd and 2 or 4th and 2. Theres nothing wrong with passing to get a 1st down.

The 2004 Patriots were a dominating rushing team. Dillon had 1645 yds and 12 TDs and the Patriots gained 2134 yds rushing with 15 TDs total on the ground. The Pats ran 524 plays and passed 485 times. Clearly this was the best balanced Pats team of this decade. This team scored less than 20 once that year, and Dillon allowed the team to finish off teams by eating clock and getting first downs on the ground.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The 2004 Patriots were a dominating rushing team. Dillon had 1645 yds and 12 TDs and the Patriots gained 2134 yds rushing with 15 TDs total on the ground. The Pats ran 524 plays and passed 485 times. Clearly this was the best balanced Pats team of this decade. This team scored less than 20 once that year, and Dillon allowed the team to finish off teams by eating clock and getting first downs on the ground.

The 2001 team and the 2003 team both won the SB without a dominating rushing player,. What they did have that the 2009 squad lacks is the ability to run for 2-3 yards when it's mandatory with Antowain Smith at RB. The simple threat of that run serves to bunch up the D. The acknowleded inability to run with confidence results in OC play calls like we've been geting.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Patriots used to remind me of the Celtic teams of the 80's. They didn't out-talent the other elite teams, but they were well coached, didn't beat themselves, and they won more than their share of close games. Not so much any more.

What? Terrible analogy. 80's Celts had 3 HoFs and had arguably the 86 team was the greatest of all-time w/ Walton. They ran over teams on a nightly basis.

 

[Yehoodi]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wonders what is missing from recent Patriots squads. Since the 04 season I think the play making talent has dropped WAY off. That 04 team was littered with playmakers like Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, McGinest and Samuel.


What's your take on this?

yes we do not have the playmakers on D at the present time, but you must remember all of those guys you mentioned, absent Samuel, were seasoned veterans with at least 5-6 years each. Most of our guys now are only in thier first three years, how was Harrison, Vrabel, Bruschi and McGinest. in thier first three years? . If I remember two of them were on a team that lost SB against Green Bay . . .

So i guess time will tell, but now i am a little nervous aobut our D.