Welcome to PatsFans.com

What's in the Stimulous Bill

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by FreeTedWilliams, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,462
    Likes Received:
    88
    Ratings:
    +255 / 38 / -4

    #75 Jersey

    50 De-Stimulating Facts by Stephen Spruiell & Kevin Williamson on National Review Online

    This is truely scary, does anyone think that any of these will help the economy?

    Summary:
    $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
    (you have to be kidding!)
    $380 million in the Senate bill for the Women, Infants and Children program
    (more free healthcare)
    $300 million for grants to combat violence against women
    (just lock up the Kennedy's, it would be cheaper)
    $2 billion for federal child-care block grants
    (Free day-care, yeah that will get the economy rolling)
    $6 billion for university building projects
    (I hear that Harvard is having a bake sale)
    $15 billion for boosting Pell Grant college scholarships
    (Nothing wrong with Pell Grants, ok this can stay)
    $4 billion for job-training programs, including $1.2 billion for “youths” up to the age of 24
    (You know what trains "youths" for really good jobs, college (or tech school))
    $1 billion for community-development block grants
    (more money tossed into that empty pit know as the ghetto)
    $4.2 billion for “neighborhood stabilization activities”
    (ditto)
    $650 million for digital-TV coupons; $90 million to educate “vulnerable populations”
    (Do we really need to spend 740 MILLION DOLLARS to aid people who have 15 year old TVs?)
    $15 billion for business-loss carry-backs
    (I'm guessing this is a tax break, on losses, gee that will get them to make more jobs)
    $145 billion for “Making Work Pay” tax credits
    (Or as we like to call it, welfare)
    $83 billion for the earned income credit
    (straight out wealth re-distribution, just like he told Joe the Plumber, at least this is one campaign promise he didn't lie about)

    $150 million for the Smithsonian
    (to update a free museum, somehow, I can't see this as economic stimulous)
    $34 million to renovate the Department of Commerce headquarters
    (and he just announced that he is going to by-pass the head of commerce for the census, so why not just scrap the enitre department) (BTW most of these construction jobs in this package are going to illegal aliens, because the one of the first things that Obama did when he got in office, was to scrap a Bush law, that mandates that all federal contractors use E-Verify (a free web based ICE/SSA tool that verifies names, Alien Numbers, and SS numbers IN SECONDS) So most of these jobs will be taken by illegals, and they will pay no taxes on that labor and will send a majority of the money they make (minus beer costs) back to Mexico)
    $500 million for improvement projects for National Institutes of Health facilities
    (more money to illegals)
    $44 million for repairs to Department of Agriculture headquarters
    (Boy, Mexico is gonna be rolling in dough)
    $350 million for Agriculture Department computers
    (they actually run the payroll system, for most federal employees, so they might actually need this, buy Dell stock, if this passes)
    $88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building
    (more money for illegals)
    $448 million for constructing a new Homeland Security Department headquarters
    (yup, you got it, even DHS tells its employees, NOT TO ARREST ILLEGALS WORKING ON DHS BUILDINGS!)
    $600 million to convert the federal auto fleet to hybrids
    (Yeah, the FBI can now chase down bank robbers in a Prius!!) (but seriously, you are gonna spend 600 million, just to move your gas costs, to your electric costs, stupid!)
    $450 million for NASA (carve-out for “climate-research missions”)
    (If there is a bigger pile of **** than Global Warming, I'll wrap it up and wear it as a suit) Money for Al Gore
    $600 million for NOAA (carve-out for “climate modeling”)
    (more money wasted on BS)
    $1 billion for the Census Bureau
    (By law, the census has to be done every ten years, and now, they suddenly have to fund it?)

    $89 billion for Medicaid
    (more free healthcare for the unproductive, and of course, the illegal aliens)
    $30 billion for COBRA insurance extension
    (This I can live with, people get laid off, they need to keep their insurance)
    $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits
    (Ditto, I can live with this)
    $20 billion for food stamps
    (Another 20 BILLION going to HAMAS, (do you honestly think that those store owners that buy food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar, are not semding this money back to HAMMAS?)

    $4.5 billion for U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
    (more money for illegals)
    $850 million for Amtrak
    (I'm pretty sure you can go to the moon for this much money)
    $87 million for a polar icebreaking ship
    (WHY DO WE NEED THIS, LISTEN TO AL GORE, THE ICE IS MELTING, MELTING,,,,)
    $1.7 billion for the National Park System
    (How can you spend 1.7 billion in a forest?)
    $55 million for Historic Preservation Fund
    (Nothing here is more than a few hundreds years old, how hard is it to preserve?)
    $7.6 billion for “rural community advancement programs”
    (Once again, a staggering amount of money for something no one can even guess what it is)
    $150 million for agricultural-commodity purchases
    (boy, thats alot of corn)
    $150 million for “producers of livestock, honeybees, and farm-raised fish”
    (Yeah, save the bees)

    $2 billion for renewable-energy research ($400 million for global-warming research)
    (2 billion for AL Gore)
    $2 billion for a “clean coal” power plant in Illinois
    (gee the only true earmark in this bill, and its gonig to Obama's adopted state, I guess he took that "no earmarks" pledge about as seriously as he took his "no lobbyists" pledge)
    $6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program
    (that is alot of money for umbrellas)
    $3.5 billion for energy-efficiency and conservation block grants
    (Block grants, is another way of saying, PORK)
    $3.4 billion for the State Energy Program
    (which State?)
    $200 million for state and local electric-transport projects
    (Can anyone tell me which subway DOESN'T run on electricity)
    $300 million for energy-efficient-appliance rebate programs
    (But he just signed a law that mandates that companies make more energy efficient appliance, which is going to raise their prices, so is this the off-set to that?)
    $400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments
    (stop, POLICE, oh ****, who didn't plug in the crusier last night?)
    $1 billion for the manufacturing of advanced batteries
    (don't you think, that if someone knew how to make an "advanced battery" they would have done it in the free market?)
    $1.5 billion for green-technology loan guarantees
    (More Global warming crap)
    $8 billion for innovative-technology loan-guarantee program
    (ditto)
    $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects
    (ditto)
    $4.5 billion for electricity grid
    (This I can live with, update the grid, no more balckouts)
    $79 billion for State Fiscal Stabilization Fund
    (Just in case the feds forgot some liberal program, money for the states to fund there own)


    But seriously, how is any of this worth putting the US in a ONE TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT?
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,048
    Likes Received:
    185
    Ratings:
    +259 / 10 / -11

    As I'm sure you could have guessed, I agree with just about all that spending based on the brief descriptions you provided. But, the goal ot the stimulus is simply to spend money on American goods and services in the hope that the people who get the money spend it in the hope that the multiplier effect kicks in enough so that the economy starts functioning again. However, given the size of our economy, I honestly don't think that $1 trillion is nearly enough, but hopefully I'm wrong. I also think Obama should substantially raise taxes on the rich, increase the death tax, and crack down on corporations using foreign loopholes to avoid taxes so that we can pay for it.
  3. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Unfortunately every one of your suggestions will only make the economy worse. The death tax is notably the most unfair, reprehensible tax that exists. It should be unconstitutional.

    Also, corporations wouldn't have to move to foreign countries if we didn't have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world and didn't have unions that unreasonably increase the cost of manufactured products.

    Lowering corporate taxes would have a notably immediate positive influence on the economy.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,620
    Likes Received:
    209
    Ratings:
    +493 / 12 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    That's because you're a partisan hack. About half of that stuff sounds reasonable as "stimulus" and the other half sounds like Granny Nancy's crazy spending spree.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,048
    Likes Received:
    185
    Ratings:
    +259 / 10 / -11

    There are lots of things that are unfair in life. Salaries of executives are often unfair; the fact that a football player can earn 100x as much as a great teacher is unfair; the fact that some people using the same approach choose mutual funds that invest wisely, while others choose mutual funds that invest unwisely; the fact that some people are born into money and others aren't; the fact that some people have expensive illnesses and others don't. The death tax is no more unfair than any other aspect of capitalism. Where I think you go wrong is that you apparently see capitalism as a moral code; I see it as the best economic system, but merely a system that needs to be tweaked to support our values and quality of life. Capitalism is not my religion. It's merely a tool, and an imperfect one at that.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,048
    Likes Received:
    185
    Ratings:
    +259 / 10 / -11

    No, actually, I'm not a partisan hack. I would support greater spending on education than the Democrats want, more spending on health care, more spending on the arts, etc. I'm to the left of Nancy, but she's not bad, after all those nutty Republicans who devastated our economy and world standing.
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,620
    Likes Received:
    209
    Ratings:
    +493 / 12 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    If you are in favor of spending on health care and the arts, more power to you. But it should be separate from the stimulus bill because it's not stimulus.

    What would be the best stimulus ? Have low interest rates for re-financing, purchasing and eliminate the payroll tax.
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,130
    Likes Received:
    191
    Ratings:
    +644 / 2 / -9

    Imagine the poor guy with a wife, 3 kids and a dog who lost his job, had his car reposesed, lost his home to forclosure and is now living with his mother inlaw, Imagine this guy reading that list of god damn left wing bullsh1t.

    YOUR NEW DICTATOR AND HIS LITTLE BAND OF BASTARDS (auntie pelosi gang) are just getting warmed up, it is only a matter of time before the American people are calling for "Impeachment".
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,715
    Likes Received:
    175
    Ratings:
    +349 / 11 / -27

    And all the while I thought there was a three paragraph rule when quoting a source...:confused::confused::confused: guess there are situational rules for mods also.. not surprised at that.
  10. elway7

    elway7 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Mommy!! FTW is not following the rules !!

    Attached Files:

  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,048
    Likes Received:
    185
    Ratings:
    +259 / 10 / -11

    I don't think the logic works. It might save some homes, of those who have no lost their jobs. It might encourage some purchasing. But, in general, I think the mood of the nation is one of being very worried about the economy. Spending on new projects is a visible sign that the country is at work, and may help restore confidence. At the very least it will put money back into the pockets of the unemployed, which they are far more likely to spend than those of us who are hedging our bets with this economy.
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,715
    Likes Received:
    175
    Ratings:
    +349 / 11 / -27

    He never does, we have come to expect it.. all the while he lends a heavy hand against a special few.. you might find his actions acceptable, personally do not.
  13. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,462
    Likes Received:
    88
    Ratings:
    +255 / 38 / -4

    #75 Jersey

    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    I can't help it if the pork in this liberal spending spree goes on and on and on..

    It seems like they have convinced a few RHINOs to go along with them. I would rather have democrats than Spector and Collins.
  14. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,066
    Likes Received:
    465
    Ratings:
    +1,022 / 8 / -19

    #87 Jersey

    What I find most odd in all of this stimulus bill stuff is that the main reason for our economic problems has not been addressed. What contributed to this big mess was the collapse of the real estate market. Huge amounts of equity which in turn led to cash flow disappeared almost overnight. Artificially low interest rates year after year with lack of sound financial oversight of the real estate sector of the economy contributed to the recession/depression.

    So we had the first stimulus bill which failed to force financial institutions to loan money to the public. Now we have another stimulus bill which pumps paper money into the economy but also fails to target the real estate sector which still is a major factor in the problems.

    What I believe would have solved a decent portion of our problems would have been for the public to apply for and receive real estate loans from the government themselves. Rather than companies receiving loans from Uncle Sam the solutions should have been for the public to apply for and receive these same loans.

    Mortgages of say 2% to 4% with some temporary relaxed borrowing rules would have pumped tons of money into the economy by allowing citizens the room and time and work out their problems. The low interest rates would have led to a new surge in real estate prices to say perhaps 1/2 of the lost equity values. Companies with bad and risky loans could have steered those same borrowers to reapply for similar equity through the government. The government would have had a greater ability to absorb new bad loans than financial institutions. Citizens would have not become as fearful of continued investment in existing financial institutions.

    A somewhat socialistic solution to the problem but what is this stimulus bill ... it is a bill that grows the size and dependency on government without addressing the real estate equity problem. At least a real estate solution would have addressed the real estate problem which would have returned equity to the system without bankrupting our kids and their kids and so on. As the years go by the government could have slowly returned the system to it's former capitalist version of borrowing and property ownership.
  15. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,514
    Likes Received:
    287
    Ratings:
    +546 / 7 / -9

    We have an underlying/proximate cause in the collapse of the housing bubble, and we have the ongoing/spiraling recessionary effects which themselves become causes in a whole other cycle -- it's the latter they're trying to address, i.e., job loss. TARP and Son of TARP (the next tranche of TARP money) is available for "troubled assets," i.e., any plan to deal with bad assets based on low real estate prices.

    The unemployed typically do not look for new housing, however.

    I did see something recently about a $15K tax credit for buying a new home, don't know whether that's still a proposal, and I don't know whether it's in the $X for tax cuts.

    Since this list has the NEA money in it, I don't think it's the Senate bill that just passed (it's the house bill.) As I posted elsewhere, that particular bit of stimulus money (accompanied here with our esteemed mod's commentary, or that of another far right partisan) seems doomed to be used as a bargaining chip at best.

    It'll be interesting to see what the final bill looks like once conference committee is done with it.

    PFnV
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,715
    Likes Received:
    175
    Ratings:
    +349 / 11 / -27

    Original quote:

    The response from our revered mod..

    Our leader.. someone we can all imitate to make sure the rules are equitably enforced... :confused::confused:
  17. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,514
    Likes Received:
    287
    Ratings:
    +546 / 7 / -9

    Look, it's been pointed out repeatedly that even if you consider a mod a disgrace, it's immaterial. He may not be your ideal of a moderator -- he may be far from it -- but he spends a lot of time being that, and that must be respected, so saith Ian and the remainder of the mods.

    Why bother? I personally am not willing to be a mod here, and I doubt any of you guys are. Even if you are, or think you are, FTW is a proven commodity, who will spend a great deal of time here (which probably includes a good deal of unpaid unglamorous reading of drivel, not just unglamorous unpaid writing of drivel.)

    That seems to be the yin and the yang, the ba and the bing, of how we assess our local mods; and when I say "we" I mean, of course, "they."

    I love the site, and I love the fact that it's got this board... so I may think the quality varies wildly among our Dear Leaders, but it's pretty clear that this is the level at which said regime can be maintained. The alternative presented in the past has been to close the whole political board down if we don't like the implementation.

    I use and like the board and have no trouble saying I'm one of the freeloaders here, so I really only have the flimsiest margin by which to say I'm a "customer." If I were paying, of course, I'd be really peeved.

    PFnV
  18. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,715
    Likes Received:
    175
    Ratings:
    +349 / 11 / -27

    But it is still interesting to Bust... particularly for the ones who are supposed to do one thing and then do another, and abuse their power. Call me old fashioned, but I have always espoused the belief that you should lead by example.
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,130
    Likes Received:
    191
    Ratings:
    +644 / 2 / -9

    Spector, Collins, Snowe:
    We have two of them up here in Maine Collins/Snowe when I vote I would vote for Al Franken rather than vote for one of them, they remain in office so long because all the Democrats vote for them.
  20. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,514
    Likes Received:
    287
    Ratings:
    +546 / 7 / -9

    :) live and learn, right? Now we have another model of leadership to analyze and use in our view of life.

    Are there any other institutions in society in which leadership by example is absent, and therefore undercutting the words of the leadership? Oh wait, I know some...

    Flip side, just for the heck of it: Everybody in such a position worth his salt is constantly keeping an eye out for such hypocrisy on his or her own part. Show me a leader so "pure" he's not concerned that he's projecting hypocrisy, and I'll show you, well, Bush. You have to let all the sqwuaking roll off you, sure. But you also question the extent to which it's legitimate, and you make your peace -- whether it's a petty board mod position (sorry mod dudes,) or a position of power in a corporation or the government. If you're worth your salt, you're never completely deaf to such criticism; but in the end, someone will always criticize any exercise of power, particularly use of said power, however petty, to claim a special place in the gutter, rather than insisting on more from oneself in an effort to rise above and therefore elevate said gutter.

    Eh well, live and learn, die and forget it all :)

    PFnV

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>