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What's changed since Week 2?

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  1. Doggin94it

    Doggin94it Rookie

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    OK, looking for some pats fans take on this. You guys have obviously subtracted Moss, added Woodhead in a significant role, gotten back Logan Mankins, and started throwing to the TEs more. Your D has also gotten more experience, those it's still not playing particularly well.

    The Jets have gotten back Calvin Pace, Santonio Holmes, and a full-strength Revis.

    Of those, what do you think will have the most impact on the game?

    For my money, it's Holmes - not only is he such a precise route runner that he'll give McCourty or Arrington fits, but he bumps the other receivers down a CB (Edwards becomes the #2, Cotchery the #3), giving them better matchups. My only concern is that he also takes balls away from Keller, who absolutely killed you guys in that game.

    A close second, to me, is Woodhead's impact on your offense. He's much more dangerous with the ball in his hands than Kevin Faulk, and our LBs aren't the best coverage guys in the world.
  2. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This should really be in the other Jets/Pats thread.

    The Pats have also added Deion Branch to the mix, which gives the offense a very good intermediate route runner who is more quick than fast. And that's something that Cromartie isn't good with.

    The addition of Mankins has been huge. Since his return, the Pats have only given up 3 sacks in 4 games. And that covers 131 pass attempts. On Top of that, the Pats RBs have 90 rushes for 427 yards. That's a 4.74 YPC.

    The Pats rookies of McCourtey, Spikes, Cunningham, and Deaderick have gotten tremendous amounts of experience since week 2. And McCourtey is showing that the Pats made the correct choice in taking him. The only way that Calvin Johnson was able to get his TD was when the Lions moved him to the left side of the field, away from McCourtey. When McCourtey was lined up against him, Johnson has 2 catches for 13 yards and McCourtey had picked Hill for an interception, taking the ball out of Johnson's hands.

    While Calvin Pace is a good OLB, He's not in the same class as James Harrison, Lamarr Woodley, or DEs Freeney and Mathis. And the Pats, essentially, shut down both of those pairings.

    The Pats are also playing much better disciplined football.
  3. Uncle Rico

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    I think what's changed most for the Patriots are these two things:

    1. Addition by subtraction. Not knocking Moss here but trading him brought the Patriots back to a sum-of-the-parts offense, where Brady's favorite receiver is "the one who's open." I think that last game with the Jets, the way it ended, was really the point at which BB decided he'd had enough of a Moss-centric offense.

    2. More experience for the rookies on D. They've all gone from one week of NFL experience to 11 weeks. I also think BB has become more comfortable with moving pieces in and out according to the situation.

    Those are things that you don't really account for if you're Jamie Dukes and comparing the teams position-by-position. But they're what counts most in establishing this team's identity as being mentally tough and handling adversity very well.
  4. 102 Pat

    102 Pat Rookie

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    Did Cotchery actually play last thursday? I remember he hurt his groin versus the Texans.
  5. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    The pats entire offensive philosophy seems to have changed to a more unpredictable, ball control, play action offense. Less big play to Randy Moss.

    Before it was very, very predictable. One missed pass to Moss and it's 2nd and 10 or 3rd and 10 and they'd never climb out of the hole.

    Defensively, I just hope they can stop the quick slants and Sanchize throwing on the run.
  6. Patpartizan

    Patpartizan Rookie

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    The mind set on how best to beat the Jets crystalized after the loss. Brady got big eyes when Revis went down at the end of the first half and was trying to hit 3 run homeruns with Moss when no one was on base. Spreading the ball more to TE's and high completion short passes to Welker, Woodhead have enabled them to have the most productive offense in the NFL.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  7. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    I hope your coaches are living with this perception as much as the fans are. If measured by yards given up, and late points allowed, sure. But the only measure of a D that champions use is wins and turnovers.
  8. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    Something like 23 players from the last 2 drafts are on the Patriots 53-man roster, so preseason and 1 regular season game was in no way enough time to get hardly any of them playing instinctively.

    That has changed dramatically. Add in Danny Woodhead, put Brady back in the pre-knee injury efficiency zone, add Mankins, add a confident BJGE, add Connoly's development as a legit force on the O-line, add in Sanders, Chung, and Meriweather giving much improved safety play and you see a much more formidable opponent than in week 2. Some guys who were not playing much in week 2 are now big factors, like Brace and (if healthy) Mike Wright.

    What have we lost since week 2? Face it, Moss had become a decoy. Kaczur (IR) and Neal (questionable)have been capably replaced. Faulk would normally be a huge loss, but Woodhead seems fully capable of playing his role effectively. McCourty and Arrington have made the loss of Bodden tolerable. The only real negative is the loss of Gostkowski, given the Jets special teams skills.

    Confident, aggressive, mistake-free football is what you get now from NE. That was not the case in week 2.
  9. Doggin94it

    Doggin94it Rookie

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    Really? The measure of a D is wins? Then I guess St. Louis' D had a great game in that 36-33 victory over Denver on Sunday.

    Turnovers are a big deal - but you can't count on them.
  10. ALP

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    well then we're in agreement....the Jets can get 500 yards, but turn the ball over 5 times

    ill be happy with that
  11. NYCPatsFan

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    Hmm...you do know how to stir a pot don't you? :)

    Read other threads on this subject because this is a very sensitive issue to many fans here who seem to be split on our D's performance and the ways to measure it.
  12. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    I have been analyzing the 2nd game and will post a thread about it. The biggest difference will be the playcalling. In the 2nd game it started off well and then after that big completion to Hernandez and the one hand Moss TD catch, went down the drain (just about abandoned the run game). It looks as if BOB became enamored with how fast the ball moved upfield on that drive and wanted to reproduce it.

    In the past few games, the playcalling has been much more fluid, more disciplined, and more unpredictable, and this time around, I think (or hope) that it will take advantage of your aggressive one-gapping schemes in the same way we exploited the Colts schemes with a mixture of 3 step fast slants, intermediate game, runs and screens.
  13. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    I don't think that generating turnovers is something that the NE defense has to "count on" but is rather a byproduct of having a very young defense that is by far faster than we have had in the past. Those past defenses were admittedly more fundamentally sound and consistent in making reads. However with these youngsters, when they do get the fundamentals right, they not only make a tackle or break up a play they also make a play on the ball.

    The emphasis is still to play smart, to be in the right place at the right time to make a stop.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Patriots no longer have a consistent deep threat

    The Patriots have a viable Kevin Faulk replacement that's been established

    The Patriots have more quickness in the receiving corps

    Brady is more familiar with his receivers, and the throws have been much more accurate

    The defense is going with a lot more "big nickel", meaning 3 safeties rather than 3 CBs

    Cunningham has progressed with regards to the pass rush

    Brace/Deaderick have improved the run defense

    Patriots kicking game is nowhere near as strong with Gostkowski out

    Sanchez has returned to being a lousy quarterback

    Holmes is a tremendous addition on the field for the Jets

    Thomlinson is either worn out or just in a slump

    Arrington for Butler and, seemingly, more zone defense out of New England


    There are certainly more differences, but that's a start
  15. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    I think a few things have changed:

    1. The offense: This is so obvious. The offense is more balance, less predictable, and overall more efficient. I echo the sentiment that the first matchup may have been the beginning of the end of the Moss era, and I think that was one of the best personnel decisions (at least during the season) that we've seen from BB in his tenure. What left so many scratching their heads when the news broke has now become crystal clear to everyone. Moss was a problem on the field (more than anything else), and they solved the issue by getting rid of him. We've seen an improvement from the offense, and we've seen the old TB.

    2. A different Tom Brady. I think this ties in to point one and is directly related to the exodus of Moss. Brady no longer feels that chip to force balls into Moss to keep him motivated and involved. As one poster already noted, he has gone back to loving and throwing to the open receiver. His trademark accuracy also seems to be back. I saw a very erratic Brady who was missing open receivers in week 2. This is not the case right now. I remember an article about Brady as a possible MVP candidate during training camp. Right now, it's hard not to include him in the discussion.

    3. Deion Branch. In keeping with the offensive theme, I don't think we realize just how important a guy like Branch is to the NE system. He is an incredible route-runner and just always seems to be available to Brady when he's in trouble. He plays from snap to whistle on every play, not just when plays are designed for him.

    4. Wes Welker is rounding into shape now. He is very close to finally feeling like he's 100 percent and, by his own admission, is trusting his knee more. We all saw evidence of that when he took two defenders into the endzone with him on Thursday. He absolutely killed the Jets in the second matchup last season. He was less effective in Week 2, but we're going to see a much different player this time around, I'm sure.

    5. The defense is a bit more mature and more stout against the run. Yardage and 3rd down conversion percentage are still huge issues that will not change for this game or moving forward, but I like the way the unit is playing and producing turnovers. They are like the Saints defense of last year. They're just an opportunistic bunch that puts their offense in good scoring position when they're able to get their hands on the ball. They're still vulnerable, but they've had about 11 weeks now to learn and get better.

    6. Darius Butler will not be lined up across from Braylon Edwards. I couldn't help myself.;):p

    I'm no expert, but I think those are a few of the things that I've noticed. It's still going to be a tough game that comes down to the final few possessions. The team must force Sanchez to be the primary offensive weapon. They have to stop the run and contain Dustin Keller. For some reason, Holmes doesn't scare me much. They must confuse Sanchize and force him into some of the dumb mistakes. Though he hasn't fallen victim to that as much this season, I still believe he is somewhat prone to making a few bonehead decisions during a game.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  16. Kid~Brady

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    Well done, your points are very agreeable. good and bad.
  17. TheGreatestEVER

    TheGreatestEVER Rookie

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    To be honest, i think we will get to see how the young players on the defense will use the experience they attained in the first game against the Jets.

    From what i have seen from both the Patriots and the Jets is that the Patriots are actually improving, while the Jets have been slowing down a bit, struggling to beat sh*t teams while the Pats have been going into the 4th Q with huge leads. The Jets have been struggling to score early on. So if they don't score early, then they might be in trouble.
  18. Doggin94it

    Doggin94it Rookie

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    :D

    Heh - I can see where that would be a sore subject.

    I think anyone expecting Branch or Welker to have good games against the Jets is going to be very disappointed. Yes, Welker traditionally kills the Jets - but that's because he's been matched up with the likes of Lito Sheppard while Moss drew safety help or Revis. I'd expect to see Revis locked up with Welker all game. Welker will get a few catches, but it won't be anything deadly to the Jets. And Cromartie on Branch is a matchup that favors Cromartie (quick feet, long arms).

    Greatest - agreed. The Jets need to come out of the gate fast against the Pats.
  19. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    Sorry, the biggest impact was going back to the offense at which Brady excels, and getting back the receiver who helps run it the best. The difference between average and great Brady is more than any difference mediocre sanchez will experience now, or possibly ever.

    Good part is going back to the 7 or 8 different receivers each week neutralizes a great cover guy who was focused on a big #1 like Moss. We're back to a bunch of smurfs, how is your 4th or 5th corner?

    Brady was calling out tate hernandez and edelman lst week just like Santa calling out Donner, Prancer and Blitzen.

    If Revis can cover Branch, Welker, Tate, Gronk, Crumpler, Hernandez, Edelman, Woodhead, BJ, Morris and possibly Taylor, good luck to him.
  20. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    Cromartie actually struggles with a smaller reciever who come out of their breaks quick.

    The beauty of this match up is the lack of S help Revis will get.
    Revis will be more than equiped to handle anyone NE can throw at him. However, by isolating Revis it's allot easier to use him to create space for other players, ie, TE.....
  21. Metaphors

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    1) OL Stability

    Not only getting Mankins but the OL (including TEs) has really come together with pass protection and run blocking. If the Jets don't get pressure bringing just 4, the Pats should be in good shape.

    2) Offense in Rhythm

    The Pats don't need balance...but they do need to show balance. Being in the shotgun all the time makes life easier on the edge rushers and safeties. While Brady finished with a rating in the 70's, his rating was about 120 when throwing to players who will be in the game on Monday. On that final fumble, Brady looked off an open Gronkowski to find Moss (double-covered) on the right. I feel pretty confident that won't happen again.

    3) Maturity

    Hernandez can legally drink now. Gronkowski has Brady's confidence, particularly in the red zone. McCourty is comfortable as the #1 CB. Cunningham is finding his groove and will be matched against a less-than-100% Woody. Hadn't even dusted off Deaderick in September yet. These players are better just by playing these last 2+ months.

    4) About 60 Degrees

    Sanchez has so few games in freezing temperatures that you can't even spot trends. Last year, he was a mess against the Falcons and didn't have to do much in the 2 Cincy games. Thiis year he has been lucky with the weather situations. That changes on Monday and shouldn't get any better for the rest of the season. Your body reacts differently when you are sweating in freezing weather. The ball feels significantly different with temps in the 20's. With the Jets running game not dominating, I would expect Sanchez to have to make a number of plays to win.

    5) Extra Days

    I don't anticipate the Jets doing anything different than they have done all year. Extra prep probably doesn't mean much to them besides some extra rest for the players. I have no doubt that Belichick will use the extra days to devise, install and practice a gameplan with wrinkles the Jets will need to adjust to on the fly. Belichick has a pretty solid record of turning around an early division loss.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  22. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Welker in the slot, and safe from press coverage, will beat Revis all day. The Jets will probably have Revis and Cromartie on Branch and Tate most of the time, and they'll have Wilson getting help in the slot against Welker. That will leave Gronkowski against either a safety without the size to match up, or a linebacker that can't keep up. Putting out Hernandez would mean that the Jets would either have to go with another DB, or they'd get killed by Hernandez v. LB.

    The Patriots will be able to dictate, just as they did in week 2, even in the second half. People, especially Jets fans, ignore that part of what happened in the first meeting. The question will come down to whether or not Brady can connect on the throws this time around.


    Given how well TB's been playing lately, I'm going to side with the Patriots offense in this matchup.
  23. stcjones

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    and the throws have been much more accurate"

    This has been one of the biggest changes......I have been awestruck at the incredible accuracy and precision in Brady's passes as of late.......Un-freaking real.......His first TD in the endzone to Gronk against the squeelers was one of the greatest throws ever made.....In short, He has been on fire......Other differences:

    Mankins has been awesome since coming back giving Brady even MORE time.....

    Branch is in as you point out......brings a whole different dimension to the O when he is healthy......

    Biggest things are the D has gotten more time to play together and are better than their "ratings" if that makes sense....and the offense is actually more efficient and harder to predict now that Moss is gone......Like you say....Brady was so focused on Moss during first game....and tried to force throws....Now he has MORE targets and as a result is MUCH MORE accurate, DEADLY, and CONFIDENT......very CONFIDENT and fired up.....something Jets fans should be worried about.....
  24. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

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    If Rex locks Revis on Welk (which I doubt he would ever do) that will open up more opps for Hernandez, Gronk, Crump, Woodhead, BJGE (who occas comes out of backfield for receptions), Branch (and yes, cromartie will struggle with Branch if he(Deion) is 100%).....Edelman.......and Lets not forget TATE!!!.....everyone is forgetting Tate!!!! Tate is a wild card......IT is taking him along time to get started but he HAS shown flashes of brilliance and of course had some big KR's......let the Jests leave him covered by a LB all game.......We have alot of weapons now.....and Brady is playing the best, most confident I have seen him in awhile.....
  25. Uncle Rico

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    Some good stuff from ESPN stats

    Patriots becoming a second half team - Stats & Info Blog - ESPN

    They're obviosuly not aware of this thread so didn't break it down to "since week 2," so I did:

    In the first two weeks, Pats scored 38 points in the first half. They scored 14 (all in week 1) in the second.

    So, first two weeks: 38 first half, 14 second half
    Nine game since: 98 first half, 184 second half
  26. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Am I the only one who remembers Welker being out for a good portion of the part of the Jets game where the Pats got killed or was I just hallucinating?
  27. Hitman Harris

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    Do you remember Revis being out for the entire second half as well. How about no Calvin pace, Trevor Pryce, or Santonio Holmes.
    How about this stat. The 2010 New England Patriots are 0-2 agains the Ryan brother's defenses. 14 points in each.
  28. Uncle Rico

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    All pretty much covered in the original post.
  29. *ChungFu*

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    I think the conditioning of the youth movement has made this team less likely to wear down on defense while wearing down the oppositions defense.
    Not to jinx anything but, I think the multiple rotations have kept a lot of players fresh, too.
  30. WhiZa

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    Revis was full-strength in the week 2 game. He hurt his hamstring and his pride after Moss grabbed the one handed TD.
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