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What's better, what's worse?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by betterthanthealternative, May 4, 2010.

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  1. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't believe any position will be worse this year than last. The most vulnerable is WR, if Holt doesn't work out and Welker doesn't make it back.

    Staying roughly the same will be OL, WR; RB, OLB, DL

    Getter a bit better will be QB, WR with Welker, S, ILB, CB

    Potentially much better is TE.

    This assumes no major injuries. Most vulnerable to injury are WR (Moss or Holt), DL, and OLB.

    I'm high on the TE situation, even though unproven.

    I expect Brady to be better this year than last as he recovers fully.

    I think Holt will do very well, and the news on Crumpler (kick boxing?!) is encouraging.

    The DBackfield should come of age this year.

    If Spikes is as advertised, and can make the transition, and Mayo recovers fully, wow at ILB.

    I am not as sold on Cunningham, but would love to be surprised.

    Your thoughts? (I'm not awake or smart enough to make this into a poll),
     
  2. Patriot 37

    Patriot 37 On the Game Day Roster

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    I agree with your your assesment except WR, Holt at worst is Jabar Gafney. Eddleman and a healthy Tate will be better (not expecting much from Price in his 1st year), but the if Welker misses 10-12 games and comes back at 75%or the whole season I still say we are worse off.

    I not worried about OLB Ninovich is better against the run than Thomas and if all Cunningham does is come in on passing downs and try to speed rush around the RT without using any pass rush moves, then he's equaled Burgess. OLB is like TE it really can't get worse.
     
  3. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    I think this team is going to have a very tough time making the playoffs. This year will probably be just another growing year where they stay competitive, but ultimately come up short in important games due to lack of experience and youth.
     
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Our starting OLB's are Banta-Cain and Ninkovich.
    Woods sets the edge on running downs.
    Our backups are Crable and Cunningham.
    =============================
    This is by far our weakest position and one of the most vulnerable (after QB and WR).

    Cunningham could surprise in his rookie year; but 3-4 OLB is a tough position to make an immediate impact for the patriots.
    ============================
    For me, the biggest unkowns are
    1) the identity of our pass rushers,
    2) who will get Green's DE reps (and who will start at DE, and
    3) who we will add at OLB before Training Camp.
    ===========================
    This isn't much of a list of concerns for this point in the preseason. The players are there at DE, and I expect that we will add an OLB or two.
     
  5. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with your analysis.

    My only added thought is does the coaching/play calling improve as well?

    I just hope PATs learn how to spread the ball around again and not be
    so predictable. :confused:
    If they do, this offense has the potential to be top 5.
     
  6. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    You know, I think we all generally agree with this statement. But how the heck do we know? As far as I can recall, no rookie OLB drafted above round 7 has ever been healthy on the Patriots 53-man roster in BB's entire regime.
     
  7. robertweathers

    robertweathers Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I disagree. By position calling out rookie starters...

    QB-No, backup lacks big game experience.
    RB-No
    TE-Maybe, but Crumpler is there to back them up
    WR-Edelman will be fine. Tate we don't know. Moss has plenty. If WW makes it back has has plenty. Holt has tons. The rooks will be used sparingly.
    OL-No
    DL-No
    OLB-Cunningham perhaps but TBC has plenty.
    ILB-Spikes, but Mayo is there
    CB-Maybe McCourtney, but Bodden, Springs are there.
    Safety-No, but Chung got his feet wet last year. Sanders and Merriweather are there.
    K- No
    P-Yes, but that should not be an issue.
     
  8. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    That's a good point, I can't think of one. I think Cunningham's bigger obstacle would be the position change, converting from college DE to pro OLB. But that doesn't mean he can't make an impact on passing downs while he learns to be a more every down LB.
     
  9. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    You crack me up mgteich. Where did you come up with this, throwing darts or ouija board?

    I expect BB will throw Cunningham and Spikes in if they seem up to it in training camp. Wouldn't be surprised if they offered Burgess a one year deal though, either.

    The only thing I'm sure of is TBC will be rushing the passer. Woods probably plays on run downs. Did I miss some steps in the transition Nink made from nobody to sure thing? When did that happen?

    Crable could be in a wheel chair, for all we know.
     
  10. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    ...or starting. It's clearly the most unsettled position on the roster.

    Woods and Ninkovich both look like useful depth players, but I'm crossing my fingers for one of Cunningham and Crable to emerge and take significant playing time.
     
  11. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Throwing Spikes in maybe, but Cunningham is a 4-3 college DE right now. Sure, he's the got the build and skillset to play 3-4 OLB, but to expect that transition to happen from day one is unreasonable. BB will do what he always does, bring him along slowly. Use him where his current skill set helps the team and let him learn the rest over time.

    One other wildcard for OLB is Guyton. If Spikes does win a starting job inside, Guyton could prove a better option outside than Ninkovich/Woods depending on the situation.
     
  12. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    You got my point. Everybody, including Burgess or another vet pickup, has a chance of playing a lot, or hardly at all, or being cut. TBC rushing some is pretty likely, is all.

    I'd rather have some early mistakes and a competitive training camp than the sludge that was our LB corps last year.
     
  13. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    They are all 4-3 ends now, that's the problem. somebody needs to dip their toe in the water here.
     
  14. Patriot 37

    Patriot 37 On the Game Day Roster

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    The only potential strong side OLBs on the roster that anyone has actually seen play are Woods and Ninovich. Ninovich played better than Woods last year so penciling him in now isn't that much of a stretch. Obviously, for all we know Dane Fletcher will start against the Bengals.

    We are posting about Football in May kinda hard to have too stupid of a take on things.
     
  15. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    I didn't call anybody stupid, mgteich makes great posts to sort things out.

    Trouble with this is, you might as well throw the dice. Your guess is as good as mine would be an equally accurate post. Nothing against Nincovich. There just isn't any reasonable projection at the position now, IMO.
     
  16. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It's tough to assume Cunningham will come in and make an impact at OLB. The only rookies that make an impact as a 3-4 OLB are the ones drafted in the top 15 (Meriman, Ware, etc) Even then you still get busts (ie Gholston).

    My hope for a future OLB star in this draft was that he could contribute initially at what he knows best in a 4-3 DE, and slowly move over to OLB as he gets comfortable. Let's be honest though. Based on past history Cunningham has a better chance to look Gholston in his first year then he does to look like Ware.

    As far as other positions go, you have to look at what was lost: OLB Adalius Thomas, TE Benjamin Watson, DE Jarvis Green, TE Chris Baker, OLB Derrick Burgess, P Chris Hanson. Ignoring locker room chemistry and focusing on what we see on the field, the biggest question marks are OLB, TE, P. Every other position was upgraded or remained the same. I'm assuming Welker will play a large role next year as well.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  17. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    ???????????

    How do you lack both experience and youth at the same time?
     
  18. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    let's read it as

    (lack of experience) and (youth)
    not
    lack of (experience and youth)


    regardless, it's kind of amusing given how recently the team's biggest problem was supposed to be age!
     
  19. PowerRunRevival

    PowerRunRevival On the Game Day Roster

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    If Spikes and one of the canidates to replace Seymour at 3-4 DE can really shut down the run it will help the development of Cunningham.

    If we can get teams in passing situations, Cunningham's job becomes a lot more simple. He comes in for those passing downs and rushes the passer.

    This doesn't really have to do with anything but I wouldn't want to deprive you of my opinion so here goes. I expect increased speed with Chung seeing more reps at safety, I expected increased hitting from Spikes, Chung and Cunningham (and to some extent McCourty who is certainly a better tackler than Wilhite or Butler). I feel that these two changes in our defense will indirectly help our pass rush.
     
  20. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would agree that most positions should be better, but at right defensive end we have gone, in under a year from Richard Seymour to Jarvis Green (big downgrade) to who nows what. It is pure wishful thinking to believe that we are just fine there. When I think we are just fine, I need to pop in a tape of the Ravens playoff game. I am also not sure if another year of hits might show in our collection of running backs.

    With the TE upgrades, I'm not worried about ample quality passing targets for Tom. Assuming Vollmer starts, I'm not worried about pass protection.

    On D, I am high on Spikes/Mayo/Guyton so I think ILB will be way better with Mayo 100% healthy. OLB who knows. Up front Vince is a rock, so we are strong up the middle, best we have been in years IMO.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
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