Welcome to PatsFans.com

What would YOU do with an extra first rounder?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by ctpatsfan77, Sep 11, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,453
    Likes Received:
    117
    Ratings:
    +214 / 4 / -5

    Since it's hard to see Seattle tanking hard enough to miss the playoffs outright, let's assume that Seattle's pick is somewhere #21 or later. And let's assume the same holds true for the Patriots.

    Here's my question: if you had the power to shape the draft, what would you do with that extra first-rounder?
  2. chunkypony

    chunkypony Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,113
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I would package the two picks and try to move up for Posluzsny (being a huge PSU fan and all).

    Otherwise, I would take Smardzjia from Notre Dame with the higher of the two picks, and take the best LB or safety available, probably Michael Griffin or Brandon Meriweather with the lower pick.
  3. JLIS24

    JLIS24 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    It appears that a lot of juniors could make for an interesting Wr corps:
    Calvin Johnson,Ted Ginn, Sidney Rice (RS Sophomore and injured now but still) and Dwayne Jarrett
    The Seniors dont look that impressive
    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/wr.html
    We will have to see if Samardzija will play baseball

    But to answer your question I pick receiver as an interesting pick, could improve the team.

    I`m still very concerned with our defensive back, both safety and corner (remember we were 31st in pass defense last year)
    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/cb.html
    No corner has impressed me to this point but safety looks really nice
    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/s.html
    Landry, Merriweather, maybe Griffin Zbikowski
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,426
    Likes Received:
    149
    Ratings:
    +306 / 9 / -9

    #24 Jersey

    If Koppen leaves I would strongly look at Fresno St. Center Kyle Young. Pat Hill says he's the best OL he's ever had. And that would include Mankins. Although I just saw NFL Draft Scout has him projected as a 3rd rounder so maybe I'm a little off here.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2006
  5. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -1

    Unless either we or Seattle have a gawd awful year we will not have enough to give to get up high enough to get him.
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,750
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +14 / 2 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    If BB keeps the picks, we get two more top notch athletes to add to the roster. He hasn't missed yet with a first rounder.

    If Samuel leaves, he has to look at CB with one of those picks.
  7. PatsSuperBowlx3

    PatsSuperBowlx3 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I would also try and package the two 1st-round picks together in order to get something a bit higher. If the Pats played their cards right, they could easily get into the top 15 of the draft, and maybe the top 10. It all depends on who they would be talking to...

    Dillon
  8. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I'd be careful with Simardzjia--as he spent the offseason playing in the Chicago Cubs minor league system after having been selected in the 4th round of the MLB draft...

    I'd take BPAs, or pull the swap that we did before--trade this year's first for this year's second and next year's first with some unsuspecting fool that ends up targetting Kyle Boller...
  9. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +78 / 2 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    Yep. I'll reserve judgement until I see what the FA gains and losses are. We may have to replace a few guys.

    However, I'd explore trading down with one of the firsts, maybe an early-mid second and two thirds.

    Then again, we figure to have three high comp picks next year, so I suppose trading up or trading into 2008 would be more logical.
  10. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,750
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +14 / 2 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Someone posted earlier that they thought we would get 4 comp picks 4,5,6,7.

    I'd hate to lose Koppen in FA. Besides playing very well, the media says he seems like a take charge kind of guy in the locker room. And while Kyle Young is a beast at Fresno State and I'm sure BB and Hill was chat about Young, I still like Koppen's game a whole bunch.
  11. TNPatsFan

    TNPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Trade up to take Calvin Johnson, unless the Lions get to him first. :)
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    I like Fresno's Center too, I'd also consider LT Ryan Harris Notre Dame.
  13. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,673
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    #95 Jersey

    well, we'll obv have the money to extend these guys
    of course we dont know what theyll ask for
    i reallly hope we extend koppen and personally i would do so soon
    as for assante, i kinda wanna see how he performs this yr
    we might be able to pick up a corner in fa if we let assante go
    but i do think we'll take a wr somewhere at the top of the draft
    but hey, chad jackson could catch 100 balls this year and gabriel could catch 70

    so i guess what im sayin is yeah, its a lil too early

    the safeties are nasty in this draft though and id love to have one of em
  14. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,750
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +14 / 2 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    It's been a while since I've seen a draft with 3 safeties all carrying legitimate first round grades.
    Marriweather played rather poorly against FSU. (I'm throwing out the FAMU game) But I still like his game. I wish I knew more about his character.
    One of the odd things about watching kids play on Saturday is that no matter how much film/video you watch, you can never get a 100% beat on character. Sometimes the kids screw up and it goes public. (Blake Mitchell - South Carolina.) But everything else you can only hear from family and friends.
    And while character may be get a "what's that" response from coach Lewis, it does mean a lot to BB.
  15. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    The question of trading up. Is it worth trading two players for one?

    Let's take an example. In 2004, BB had #21 and #32. #21 came from the Kyle Boller trade, and #32 was our own. Not unsimilar to the situation we hope to be in, in 2007.

    BB stayed put and drafted Vince Wilfork and Ben Watson. By the book, those two picks would have been enough to trade to #9 overall. So, instead of Wilfork and Watson, we could have drafted any of the following:

    #8 CB DeAngelo Hall (Atlanta) - looks like a perennial pro-Bowler
    #9 WR Reggie Williams (Jacksonville) - nothing special
    #10 CB Dunta Robinson (Houston) - word is that BB liked DeAngelo Hall, who went #8 overall... not sure if he was high on Dunta, too
    #11 QB Ben Rothlesberger (Pittsburgh) - who dropped unexpectedly into this spot
    #12 LB Jonathan Vilma (Jets) - who BB is known to have wanted
    #13 WR Lee Evans (Buffalo) - promising but still hasnt had his breakout season
    #14 DT Tommie Harris (Chicago) - starter on a very good D
    #15 WR Michael Clayton (Tampa) - highly regarded coming out
    #16 OL Shawn Andrews (Phili) - road grader
    #17 LB DJ Williams (Denver) - 6'1 242# OLB, starting in a 4-3 D
    #18 DE/LB Will Smith (New Orleans) - by far the best defensive player on a bad D
    #19 OT Vernon Carey (Miami) - starting for Miami
    #20 DE Kenechi Udeze (Minnesota) - 281# DE... not a fit for our scheme

    In retrospect, the four players that I'd want on our team out of that pool would be Hall (#8), Vilma (#12), Evans (#13) and Smith (#18).

    Are any of them worth Wilfork AND Watson?

    Well, not for Evans anyway. Even with our need at WR.

    Now, adding Hall would be transformational for our secondary. He has been stunning for a young player, and looks like he's on a trajectory that will put him among the elite at the position (if he isn't there already). Two players for this guy? Maybe. I'm still hoping for greatness out of Watson.

    One trade that I would make is Wilfork and Marquise Hill (who we took at #64 that year), for Will Smith. And it was reported in New Orleans after the draft that BB had actually make exactly that offer (#21 and #64 in order to draft Smith) to the Saints, and they declined.

    Interesting, three years later, and that trade still looks good to me, good for BOTH teams. By now, Smith would be our starter in place of McGinest, ahead of TBC. Wilfork and Hill would both be starters for New Orleans. We would have kept Traylor on the roster at NT, instead of releasing him into Nick Saban's hands. Smith would be a star playing in a BB defensive front opposite Colvin. So, Warren, Traylor, Seymour on DL. Smith, Vrabel, Bruschi and Colvin at LB. Very doable.

    The other interesting trade would have been for Vilma. Vilma and Bruschi inside, with Vrabel and Colvin outside. Again, the front three this year would have been Warren, Traylor (again, no Wilfork) and Seymour. Of course, we lose out on Watson. Not sure if we come out ahead on that or not.

    Overall, it's a close call. You need to know what you're getting, as a matter of fact, not conjecture. I wasn't so sure when I started writing this post what I'd think about trading two for one... but now... I think trading up for the right player could work. It's risky, but what a big difference to the roster this year if we'd drafted either Vilma or Smith in 2004.
  16. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    Thinking about this more, what makes trading Wilfork and Watson for Vilma work, in concept, is the fact that we had Traylor under contract, and he was playing well in the system.

    The fact that we tried Chad Brown, Monty Beisel at ILB, and couldn't find a fit makes Vilma more attractive in retrospect than Wilfork. And Watson has had two injury filled years... so that makes it easy to write him off.

    So, the question is, which would you prefer on the team today:

    (1) ILB Vilma, NT Traylor, TE Fauria

    or

    (2) ILB Seau, NT Wilfork, TE Watson

    Very tough call. I think they probably would have cost us about the same in cash and cap space.
  17. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Of course the decision of whether to trade up depends on the overall quality of the draft year. When we got Wilfork and Watson it was a very strong draft crop, on the other hand, the year we drafted Mankins was a very weak draft that had Alex Smith going #1 overall.

    It would be great if BB/SP find two guys that they like at our spots....preferably at SS and ILB. I still don't want to use a #1 on a WR.
  18. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +78 / 2 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    This is the first I've heard of the trade up to get Smith. But if it was extended, I'm sure it was before Wilfork dropped to us at 21. Maybe Belichick offered #21 and #64 to get to #18. But I don't think there's a way on God's green Earth that Belichick would consider trading Wilfork for Smith straight up. Remember Wilfork was projected to go somewhere in the 6-12 range.

    The huge athletic NT is the most important piece in the Belichick 3-4, or at the very least the hardest to find. At most, you get two per year coming out in the draft, and most years, there's really only one (Ngata last year). I like Smith. Great player. But several Will Smith's are in the draft every year, and I'm not positive he fits in our defense. If Belichick offered #21 and #64 for #18, I'm willing to bet his target was Wilfork. Don't forget that Traylor is something like 36 right now. He didn't have the wind to play the entire game in 2004, let alone in 2006.
  19. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,369
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ratings:
    +78 / 2 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    This is a no brainer, #2, even with Seau at 47 years old. Let's see if Vilma holds up this season on the inside. The other two positions are steep downgrades, and in both scenarios you're going to be forced to find a replacement soon.
  20. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The only guy I would probably want to trade up for would be Calvin Johnson, but with very low picks (let's say 27 and 28), we aren't getting near the top 5, which is where he is going. Unless a very good player DROPS (who knows who that prospect is yet, until we get much closer to draft day), the VALUE says draft 2 first rounders.

    The breakdown of needs:

    IMMEDIATE Help

    CB - Assuming that Samuel is walking, that leaves an empty CB spot for a good rookie to fill. CB is a very important position, especially in this defense. I could also see BB drafting one in the first.

    OL - If Koppen leaves, or if Kaczur/O'Callaghan don't play up to expectations, then a top pick could be used as an immediate starter, likely at RT (since the top OL picks are usually LTs, not RTs or Cs, this bodes well for us).

    WR - Unless Jackson and Gabriel light the world on fire, we have a WR weakness. BB traded up for Jackson last draft, so if he sees a good talent in here, he might just go for it (since he doesn't like paying on the open market obviously).


    "Start in a couple years" type guys

    LB - Either one (ILB/OLB), since Vrabel can shift inside, yet we don't know yet how TBC will progress this year to see if we really need an OLB. BB is very keen on LBs so I could see this one.

    SS - Eventual starter once Rodney is done.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>