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What would be your ideal outcome this offseason?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by drpatriot, Feb 16, 2006.

  1. drpatriot

    drpatriot Rookie

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    Within reason, of course.

    My ideal offseason would involve the following:

    #1: Resigning Givens. Givens has played extremely well with the Patriots and is our main priority as a signing. If we approach him immediately with a great offer, as many on this board have suggested, he will not refuse it.

    #2: Signing Will Allen. Allen is a good cornerback who will improve with the Patriots. Although Gay, Hobbs and Samuel are all good, we need a presence with more experience and talent.

    #3: Signing Antwan Peek. Peek is a RFA with the Texans who played as a 3-4 OLB. The Texans are switching to a 4-3 under Kubiak and Peek has lost a lot of value to the Texans. If he is given any tender, it would likely be the minimum tender, which would require a third-round pick, which we have two of. Peek is a good player who will eliminate the need for a McGinest heir apparant and, in my opinion, is worth a 3rd round pick if he receives the minimum tender. I see Peek gradually becoming more involved in the defense as the year goes on.

    #4: Restructuring McGinest's contract. I would love to see McGinest finish his career in New England, but his current cap hit is too high to keep him around. If he will not restructure, we will have to release him.

    #5: Resigning Davis, Dwight, Neal and Vinateri. These four players will come reasonably cheap and are important parts of our team.

    #6: Drafting a safety or an OL in the first round. Ko Simpson, Winston Justice or Darnell Bing would be a good pick here. We need to improve our OL and find a future replacement for Rodney. The position left over should be drafted in the second or third round.

    #7: Cutting Duane Starks, Tyrone Poole, Dan Klecko and Bethel Johnson. These players have little or no value for their roster spot and cap space and should be released.

    #8: Find an eventual replacement for Dillon. If Lendale White fell to us in the 1st round, we'd have to take him. Other options in the draft are Joseph Addai, Mike Bell and Dontrell Moore. Najeh Davenport is an option in free agency. More expertise here would be helpful.

    #9: Resign Heath Evans, Artrell Hawkins, Troy Brown and Chad Scott. These players are low-priority, but I still would like to see them make the cut to next year.

    #10: Find a KR/PR. Drafting a player like Skyler Green or Devin Hester in the later rounds is definitely an option. Willie Ponder and Eddie Drummond are both FA options.
  2. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Most of your points are valid but I think people will disagree as to "reasonably cheap" as applied to AV. Is $3 million a year cheap for one of the clutchest kiskers ever?? I guess we won't know unless the PAts don't resign him and his replacement pulls a Scott Norwood come playoff-time......
    Get that cap number to $2.0 -2.3 million ad that is reasonably cheap......
    Just my $.02,
  3. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Field the best team possible and trust fully in BB's/SP's decisions.
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My ideal would be the Pats hiring a voodoo doctor who could cast a spell and drive away the injury demons for a season.
  5. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Extending Seymour should be on any list.
  6. Chevy

    Chevy Rookie

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    1 - A Free Agent OL retires at the start of camp

    2 - Rodney comes back ready to play

    3 - After these, In BB We Trust
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    All of these are minor in comparison to getting a CBA extension done. THAT would be MY ideal off-season.

    After that, anything is possible for the Pats.
  8. Feep_FLA

    Feep_FLA Rookie

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    Sign T.O. to a one year incentive-laden contract........ I just wanna see Tom Brady throwing passes to him. Call me kooky! :rocker:

    As to all the ohter issues: In BB/SP we trust! :rolleyes:
  9. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    1) Keep Richard Seymour in New England! Alot of players want to be paid like the best at their position, Seymour is one of the few to show he's worth it.

    2) Add 1 significant, playmaking vet to the secondary, weather at CB or at SS. Experience take precedence over age here.

    3) Add 1 high-upside, multipositional offensive lineman to add to the rotation (Kaczur could be that guy should we draft a stud LT).

    4) Bring back Adam V. Not to dis him as priority #4, he would be missed if replaced. Even after an off year, I feel a confidence in Adam to make the clutch kick that I wouldn't feel in any other kicker.

    5) Start the season with a proven #2 receiver. I hope to see Givens back, but don't think we'd see much offensive dropoff if Jeruvicious or Moulds were in his place.
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree completely, but also need to add either a developing linebacker(draft) or a high potential underused fa linebacker that fits into our system, probably both. My concern is and has been what happens this strength turns into a weakness due to injury as we are so reliant on this group.

    I agree with the secondary acquisition, and need to continue to strengthen this group through the draft.

    The O line continues to need to be strengthened by the same combinations mentioned above.

    I really like Givens and hope he comes back, he and this offense fit very well.
  11. drpatriot

    drpatriot Rookie

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    Of course. How could I have forgotten that?

    Extending Branch is also a priority.
  12. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For me, a great the two most important off season events for me would be

    1. To be able to believe PATs Oline will be much better than any Oline
    since Belichick got here and one of the best in the league.
    One major Oline pick up could do it.

    2. To hear Rodney is ready to go for Training Camp or at least pretty close.

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    add to that a physical CB with size that can go one on one with most
    receivers in the league and to me that would cause for real excitment next year.

    Everything else will get done one way or another. For example they'll resign
    the FA of their own they want or get replacements. They'll draft for
    youth and depth as needed.
  13. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't want to be the GM -- I can't tell whether disappointing performance is explained by factors I don't know about -- but there is no doubt that this was a disappointing season for a lot of players. Perhaps it's because I'm still hurt about the way that it ended, but I'd like to see BB as Mr Angry (as after 2002): prepared to cut players who have been around for a long time if they are not going to improve or if they can be replaced by younger, cheaper players with greater up-side. I think that there are a lot of players who might be "on the bubble" -- Bethel, Klecko, obviously (my goodness, it hurts me to say this) but also some of the special teams specialists. In my present mood, I would not mind seeing some well known names cut "pour encourager les autres".
  14. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    What would be your ideal outcome this offseason?

    The NFL uncovers a betting pool among the officials and decides to nullify the 2005 season. :)
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  15. patpatriot

    patpatriot Banned

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    My ideal FA moves

    Release\Don't resign the following players:

    Willie Mac (this one hurts but he's old and expensive)
    Ashworth (unless he comes cheap)
    Neal (ditto)
    Starks (nuff said)
    Poole (ditto)
    T Brown (all good things...)
    C Brown (too old and expensive)
    Chatham (welcome to Cleveland!)
    Poteat (welcome back to the shadow squad)
    Givens (this one hurts)
    Izzo (times up Larry)
    Klecko (can't find a position)
    G Scott (can't stay healthy)

    Sign the following "cheap" free agents:

    o Derek Smith - ILB (joins Bru inside - Vrabel to Willie's spot )

    o Jonathan Wells - Big backup RB\ST (upgrade over "i bin shot!" Pass)

    o Jerry Azumah - CB/KR (former starter-lost job to all pro)

    o Brian Finneran - WR (big (6'5) - let's see what he can do with a real QB)

    o Jon Runyon - Vet RT (move Kazur to guard-watch Cory smile)

    Draft the following rookies:

    o Manny Lawson\M Kiwanuka\R Carpenter (new Willie Mac)

    o Richard Marshall\A Cromartie\J Allen (CB potential starters)

    o A Whitworth\D Colledge\C Spencer (OL depth)

    o DonTrell Moore\M Bell\Maurice Drew (Faulk insurance\replacement + KR)

    I'd use all my second day picks to position myself to get the best combination of these players.

    Add these players to the 05 injured (Light, Harrison, Gay, Koppen, Claridge)

    Resign Dwight, Hawkins, C Scott, and possibly Evans and A Davis

    combine these players, mix in a weaker schedule and a more experienced staff and 04 rookie class. Superbowl victory just about guaranteed!
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  16. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    les autres may indeed need a kick in the head

    bb as mr angry? could very well happen. but we won't know if it occurs.
    we all know the mantra---the best-performing players play. that must have been the case.
    i thought #53, whatsisname, had one helluva season on special teams.
    klecko? tell me, who did he beat out, and for what position?
    years ago i heard earl campbell's HC, one 'a' them 10-gallon hat, chaw in his lip, gut hanging' over the belt fellers, say "earl campbell's gonna have one helluva season if he don't get hurt. and if he gets hurt, i'll take the guy who hurts him."
    if willie ray comes back, i'll take the swing player who beats him out.

    some of those secondary players may find them on a bus trip.
    and then, mruczowski and wesley britt, ryan krug, ross taylor, billy yates,
    will see the pavement unless they beat out some rookie talent. some D-Line guys, santonio thomas, even marquise hill, mike wright, are gonna have to hit the weights.
  17. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Was that Bum Phillips? I love those Texas one-liners.
  18. Brady#12

    Brady#12 Rookie

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  19. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    Great list drpatriot. Except I might put "CUT STARKS" #1... he was abysmal.
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Overall, I like your approach to free agency and the draft.

    IMHO, your list list doesn't pass the reasonableness test you suggested. What you stated is your wish list (which is fine). For example,

    1) Why is reasonable to give a "great offer" to Givens?

    3) It is not reasonable to believe that we will pick up an RFA that will contribute. We haven't done this yet. RFA's switches are rare. Successful ones are even rarer.

    5a) Why will Davis come reasonably cheap? He likely will.
    5b) Why will Neal come reasonably cheap? Is he better than Hock?
    5c) Why will AV come reasonably cheap? This is not very likely.

    10) I think Davis, Hobbs and Dwight are fine as returners. I don't think that there is room for Davis, Dwight, Brown and a returner. Perhaps so with Branch and Givens/replacement as #1 and #2.


  21. Brady#12

    Brady#12 Rookie

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    :agree: definalty Starks was :enranged: :enranged:
  22. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My wish list

    1) A new CBA

    2) fewer losses due to health and injuries

    3) Harrison back at least on PUP

    4) extensions of a couple of key players out of: Seymour, Branch, Samuel, Graham and Koppen.

    5) a couple of resturctures, including McGinist and Brady

    6) a starting wide receiver (Givens or replacement). I like Moulds or Juriviscius

    7) two returners (I'm fine with re-signing Davis and Dwight)

    8) a fifth receiver (could be a re-sign of Brown)

    9) a sixth receiver (expecially if Branch isn't extended and Brown is included)

    10) a backup for Dillon

    11) a blocking RB/FB

    12) a #3 TE (especially if Graham isn't extended; could be a Day 1)

    13) a starting corner (Law or Allen are fine)

    14) a stud lineman to replace Neal or Ashworth, and a top draftee

    15) The draft depends on free agency but I see the best Day One value at OL, S and TE.
  23. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    Just taking a quick view without having looked too much into the draft class, I'd do the following;

    #1. Re-sign Vinatieri. This guy has singlehandedly won us games. A clutch kicker in today's NFL is almost non-existent and while Adam probably isnt as automatic as he was in years past, I'd still rather have him lining up over ANY OTHER KICKER in the NFL with the game on the line.

    #2. Re-sign David Givens IF the price is not prohibitive. If it is, then you have to say goodbye and hope to either draft a WR or sign a F/A.

    #3. Re-structure Willie Mac's contract. This guy is still effective and still a force. While he may have lost a step, he makes up for it in guile, guts, and smarts. Experience doesnt hurt either. He needs to retire a Patriot.

    #4. Sign a F/A LB (again, not fully up to speed on who's available)

    #5 Regarding the draft, I cant imagine LenDale White falling to us so I simply trust in Belichick and Pioli.
  24. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    #1,2&3 Rodney coming back at full tilt
    4. Resigning Givens
    5. Resigning Adam
    6. Having a draft that will not only yeild immediate players but solidify the future.
    7. A new CBA so we don't have anymore CBA threads.
  25. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    bingo! oail andrew "bum" phillips

    bum has "some land", about 8 sections, in east texas. he's getting on in years, about 70 now, he and his wife seem to be doing fine. he's active, into prize livestock, and looks happy. SI did an article on him, i believe, about 2 years ago.
    he lives nearby (within 50 miles) of earl campbell's ranch. one of their player-coach bonds was the "east texas boys"" thing. so to speak. i'm one too. bum said "it hurt my heart" to see him. earl, doing great financially, is in poor physical shape. he's got arthritic pain in all his joints. the best medical care available is evidently unable to ease the pain without narcotics. earl, of course, refuses to take them.
    bum's still as full of expressions as always. i really, really hope the vernacular doesn't die out with the advent of the 21st century.
  26. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OT: Bum Phillips

    I don't know much about him but I can remember him being quoted a long time ago saying of Don Shula (I think) "He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n" -- I've heard that said (with justice!) about our own BB.

    As I say, I'm a sucker for those kind of smart one-liners (I've got a soft spot for Jerry Glanville too).

    I've only been to Texas once and I'm bogged down reading Anthony Caro's biography of Lyndon Johnson (has a great story about the only restaurant in town having a sign on it "closed for lunch") so I'm curious about what "East Texas" means. Feel free to tell me -- it's a l-o-n-g time till the football season!
  27. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    I agree with signing Givens..IF the price is right, not for a huge number.

    I agree, this would be an EXCELLENT FA addition.

    I've never heard of Peek. How good is this guy? Whats his age? And whats his current salary?

    I DEFINANTLY agree on this one, this is a must if we don't wanna be strangled by the cap.

    I agree with all but Dwight. He was useless except for 2 TD receptions. Davis we could really use, ecspecially if we lose Givens. Neal is very underrated, and we need to keep him as our linemen. And Adam V, I'd love to see him kept..But I would not be sad if we had to slap him with the franchise tag again.

    why the OL? We're fine there. We were injury ridden there last season, drafting an OL in the first makes absolutely no sense at all. And at safety, give me Bing. I'd love that pick.

    Agreed on all accounts.

    This is a must, not only for the future but this season

    Only guy on that list we need is Hawkins. He's the only guy we know can solidify the safety position in Rodney's absence. The rest I don't care about..And I bet Brown hangs them up.


    Definantly. When is the last time we've scored a ST TD? 2003?

    Two more to add to the list, Re-sign Seymour and get us a new damn CBA!
  28. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Drew -
    Its pretty funny that you and others keep beating this drum even though guys like Pats1 and Box or Rocks (the guys who do the breakdowns) actually have come out and said that Starks didn't play that bad. The times he got beat he was playing underneath and had no help over the top because the safeties covered the wrong areas. Also, Its noted that Starks was playing with a severely mangled shoulder. Something that is fixed now.
  29. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Why get rid of McGinest? He was the Pats most consistent LB last year. You do realize that the Patriots can restructure his contract to reduce his cap hit, right?

    Why resign Evans? As others have mentioned, he's not a good blocker and has trouble picking up the blitz.

    Chad Scott coming back I agree with. Same with Hawkins, Davis and Dwight. But not with guaranteed spots. Spots they have to earn. I would also resign Michael Stone since he was the Pats BEST special teamer last year, bar none.

    Too many people still rag on Starks, but its clear that you didn't watch the games close enough. The times that he got beat deep, he was supposed to have safety help. And each time, the Safeties peeled off to take the outside receivers leaving Starks alone underneath. Also, Starks was playing with a mangled shoulder.

    As for Chad Brown, I don't think he is that expensive. Not at a million bucks against the cap. Though, I do believe he could get cut in favor of Claridge.

    Not sure the Pats will cut Izzo until training camp. I think they will let him come to camp and earn a position.

    It will be interesting to see if the Pats re-sign Guss Scott. Yes, he's had 2 seasons and ended up on the IR in each one. However, he is still a very cheap option to have on the team and he is still an ERFA. Re-sign him and let him fight his way onto the team in camp.

    I like the idea of signing Azumah. However, if you do that, you don't necessarily need to bring back Dwight.

    I like the other options you mention, and how the CBA extension negotiations play out will determine whether or not they are viable options.
  30. Norman Bates

    Norman Bates Rookie

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    I would really like to see Evans resigned. He did a pretty good job of power running the ball when needed.... I would like to see him in there a bit more often. Not the best blocker, but probably the best white Rusher in the league (haha)
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2006

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