What to do at WR & TE

[Brady_to_Moss]

I'm certainly concerned about the O. There's a lot of money devoted to that side of the ball and they just turned in a performance that would've required the 2000 Ravens D to produce a win.

why are you concerned about the O...just becasue of 1 game? Did you see what they did in the reg season? Ridley, gronk, hernandez, vereen, welker, lloyd, edleman, woodhead, demps,ballard, brady

You are really concerned about the O and not the depth in the D backfield or lack of pass rush year in and year out?

 

[deters]

Obviously he's had more than a drop or two over 2 seasons.

I'll ask again -- any data, or specifics, to support your claims about all the so-called crucial drops?

over a three year period (09-11) Welker was 2nd in the league in drops. he was also tied for 6th in drops this season.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/02/three-years-of-drop-rate-wide-receivers/

btw, if you actually watched many pats games over the past few seasons you would know he's dropping a lot of drive extending 3rd down passes or chain movers on 2nd.

 

[mgteich]

Yup!

The situation is what it was at the half. We're all set at TE. We have no one signed but Lloyd at WR, with Edelman likely incoming back as a backup. Losing Welker would be a serious. Problem for Brady, but he'll get over the loss if he needs to.

1 drop should not change the fact that he is bradys security blanket..why do people only remember the bad? Without welker this year...where are the pats? Even still playing in the title game?

 

[PatriotDynasty_12]

sure-- in the playoffs the expectation is that you'll play some better defenses. All I'm saying is that the offense has had some pretty good playoffs both seasons. We scored 40+ just last week.

I'd like a deep threat, too. But Lloyd would be my first choice to go if we had to make room for somebody, not Welker. (I realize that Lloyd may not make much $ and that Welker's contract situation makes the discussion of his future much more relevant -- just saying that Welker is an extremely valuable part of the offense, whereas a guy like Lloyd strikes me as compltely expendable)

That's where we disagree. I believe a deep threat would compliment Lloyd really well on the outside and make Lloyd an even bigger threat in this offense. It's comes down to winning in the playoffs for BB, considering we're pretty much a lock to make the playoffs when TB is playing.I just see Gronk, Hernandez and possibly Ballard being able to handle the middle of the field, where Welks does most of his work.

 

[chicowalker]

why are you concerned about the O...just becasue of 1 game? Did you see what they did in the reg season? Ridley, gronk, hernandez, vereen, welker, lloyd, edleman, woodhead, demps,ballard, brady

You are really concerned about the O and not the depth in the D backfield or lack of pass rush year in and year out?

Agreed. No idea how things will shake out with Welker, but I'd love for him and Edelman, along with Vollmer, all to be back. Another year of development for Cannon. Hopefully Gronk back good as new, and Ballard and Demps? There's a lot to work with there.

I'd like to see our first and 2nd rounders go to defense again -- another d-lineman in the first, maybe a safety like Elam or Jefferson in the 2nd (if they're not already gone, obviously)

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's where we disagree. I believe a deep threat would compliment Lloyd really well on the outside and make Lloyd an even bigger threat in this offense. It's comes down to winning in the playoffs for BB, considering we're pretty much a lock to make the playoffs when TB is playing.I just see Gronk, Hernandez and possibly Ballard being able to handle the middle of the field, where Welks does most of his work.

People were making this same argument about GRONK and Hernandez making Welker redundant last year, and Welker had his best season ever.

 

[DocHoliday]

why are you concerned about the O...just becasue of 1 game? Did you see what they did in the reg season? Ridley, gronk, hernandez, vereen, welker, lloyd, edleman, woodhead, demps,ballard, brady

You are really concerned about the O and not the depth in the D backfield or lack of pass rush year in and year out?

Key phrase - regular season.

Playoffs are completely different. No point of dominating in the regular season if the offense **again** gets completely muzzled by teams like the Giants and Ravens.

 

[thechris]

TE is not really a problem although I am worried bout Gronk's injury issues. WR def needs to be addressed. Especially if Welker decides to bolt (which I think he will)

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Key phrase - regular season.

Playoffs are completely different. No point of dominating in the regular season if the offense **again** gets completely muzzled by teams like the Giants and Ravens.

So how do we fix the O then? Dump brady? Get rid of two key TEs? would love to hear what we should do to fix the playoff issues then...

 

[chicowalker]

over a three year period (09-11) Welker was 2nd in the league in drops. he was also tied for 6th in drops this season.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/02/three-years-of-drop-rate-wide-receivers/

btw, if you actually watched many pats games over the past few seasons you would know he's dropping a lot of drive extending 3rd down passes or chain movers on 2nd.

That page doesn't really say what you want it to.

When you're thrown more balls, you'll have more drops. From your link:

"Now let’s get to the important number. Players like Marshall and Welker may have more drops than anyone else, but Welker doesn’t figure in the Bottom 15 of the 61 players who had at least 125 catchable balls thrown their way over the past three years"

btw, I've watched every Patriots game, pretty much every year... I just think your claims are overwrought with emotion rather than fact.

 

[ausbacker]

So how do we fix the O then? Dump brady? Get rid of two key TEs? would love to hear what we should do to fix the playoff issues then...

It's more than likely at some point in the next few years Brady will be gone (perish the thought). The succession plan needs to be thought about now. A lot of that depends on how you feel about Mallett I guess.

 

[chicowalker]

That's where we disagree. I believe a deep threat would compliment Lloyd really well on the outside and make Lloyd an even bigger threat in this offense. It's comes down to winning in the playoffs for BB, considering we're pretty much a lock to make the playoffs when TB is playing.I just see Gronk, Hernandez and possibly Ballard being able to handle the middle of the field, where Welks does most of his work.

Fair enough. I don't pretend to know how Lloyd would look in the offense if there were also a deep threat present. (In fairness to him, he'd also have another year under his belt with Brady.) I don't have a problem with Lloyd, just wasn't wowed by him, either. Seems to not get many yards after catch, seems to fall a lot. But those are just my impressions of him this season.

 

[deters]

That page doesn't really say what you want it to.

When you're thrown more balls, you'll have more drops. From your link:

"Now let’s get to the important number. Players like Marshall and Welker may have more drops than anyone else, but Welker doesn’t figure in the Bottom 15 of the 61 players who had at least 125 catchable balls thrown their way over the past three years"

btw, I've watched every Patriots game, pretty much every year... I just think your claims are overwrought with emotion rather than fact.

You obviously must be watching the games with blinders on or skipping the Welker drops with your DVR. They are there and happened nearly every game this season.

 

[Sciz]

he's had more than a drop or two over the past two seasons.

This season, including the playoffs, he averaged more than one drop per game

 

[chicowalker]

You obviously must be watching the games with blinders on or skipping the Welker drops with your DVR. They are there and happened nearly every game this season.

You obviously don't understand the difference between drops, "the dropsies" and "crucial drops."

Maybe you can post another link that doesn't say what you think it says.

 

[deters]

You obviously don't understand the difference between drops, "the dropsies" and "crucial drops."

Maybe you can post another link that doesn't say what you think it says.

hes had all three. he led the afc in drops during the regular season this year.

its easy to find so instead of being lazy look it up yourself. hell ill even help guide you in the right direction. go to espn afc east blog right now.

you really must not be paying attention to the games if you can't see his drops and critical letdowns on key drives and downs.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Gronk had a back injury in college that hasn't caused any problems since then. His two injuries in the NFL were a sprained ankle that just happened at the wrong time, and a broken forearm on an extra point. Some players are injury prone, some have bad luck. I'd say Gronk's injuries have been a case of bad luck. My only criticism is that he shouldn't have been on the field in the Houston game if a play where he put weight on the arm would re-injure it so easily. Hernandez hasn't had any injuries (iirc) other than an ankle sprain where someone feel into his leg. Again, that's bad luck, not a sign of someone who's injury prone.

There's nothing that can be done at tight end except hope for better luck. Any other tight end can sprain his ankle like Hernandez/Gronk did or fracture his forearm like Gronk did. To overreact to that and forget Gronknandez is a matchup nightmare and probably wins a superbowl last year if healthy (maybe this year too since Gronk totally changes the redzone offense) would be insanely stupid. I'm not thrilled about how much money is tied up at the position now, but I'm not convinced either one deserves the injury prone label.


Receiver is a different story and imo needs a significant upgrade opposite Lloyd, but the Patriots still have the best group of tight ends in the NFL.

 

[chicowalker]

hes had all three. he led the afc in drops during the regular season this year.

its easy to find so instead of being lazy look it up yourself. hell ill even help guide you in the right direction. go to espn afc east blog right now.

you really must not be paying attention to the games if you can't see his drops and critical letdowns on key drives and downs.

so you really don't know the difference between absolute #s and percentages are, huh? I guess that clears up your confusion on the link you posted.

You also seem to fail to understand the concept of backing up your claims. I'm not going to waste my time proving the claims of an overemotional "fan."

You can keep whining about the crucial drops you think you see. After you do it again, look up the terms "saliency bias" and "confirmation bias."

 

[crypto]

we brought moss back from the dead. that was great but it didn't work out in the end. branch was a move in the right direction but he didn't quite fit the bill either. i'm thinking jerry rice is the way forward.

 

[PATRlOT]

I want to see the Patriots trade Mallett to the Browns for their 6th overall (apparently there's a chance) and then with that 6th overall pick, I'd trade it to the Cardinals for Fitzgerald. (Or just do this in a 3-way)

If that can't happen - trade Mallett and a 2014 3rd rounder to the Cardinals for Fitzgerald. The Patriots NEED this guy. The Cardinals could use a QB as well.