What to do at WR & TE

[ausbacker]

Cost is one thing. A drop is another.

I don't think there's a problem with the Pats' receivers clogging the middle, though -- and if there were, it wouldn't be simply a Welker problem. (That sounds a bit like the notion of baserunners clogging the basepaths in baseball.) If that were a problem, the biggest issue would be with Lloyd, imo, because he doesn't bring to the table what many of us hoped he would.

But given the team's output on offense this year, and Welker's role in that offense, I don't see how there's any way to conclude he is a problem.

So bringing this back, yes, of course his cost will prove critical. My point was that singling Welker out for a drop tonight in light of everything else he has done all year, including tonight, is silly.

It's difficult because Welker has been an amazing player in New England. He's also been attached to some crucial drops in the playoffs these past two years. People tend to remember those key moments either rightfully or wrongfully.

 

[chicowalker]

I'm not knocking Welker, but I believe it's time to stretch the field on the outside, considering Gronk and Hernandez can handle the middle of the field when they're on the field together at the same time. I don't think the offense is fooling anyone in the playoffs anymore. TAKE AWAY the middle of the field, and make Brady work outside the numbers. I believe we would be better off trading for Harvin or drafting a beast WR in the 1st round...i love Welks, but unless he is trying to take a big discount, I would rather see the $ spent elsewhere.

I think it's a bit of an overreaction to criticize the offense as not fooling anyone in the playoffs given their performance last week, as well as last year in the playoffs.

But even if I disagree, I have no problem with the argument if it is allocation of resources. Personally, I think he is more important to the offense than you, but I agree that his price will be a determining factor.

My issue was solely with what appeared to be knocking him for a drop tonight.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

1 drop should not change the fact that he is bradys security blanket..why do people only remember the bad? Without welker this year...where are the pats? Even still playing in the title game?

Because, unfortunately, negative emotions tend to have a more powerful impact on memory than positive ones.

It's why you remember the stuff you missed on a test more than the stuff you got right.

 

[chicowalker]

It's difficult because Welker has been an amazing player in New England. He's also been attached to some crucial drops in the playoffs these past two years. People tend to remember those key moments either rightfully or wrongfully.

And my point is that simply focusing on a drop or two is a bad way to think about a player's value.

 

[deters]

1 drop should not change the fact that he is bradys security blanket..why do people only remember the bad? Without welker this year...where are the pats? Even still playing in the title game?

who knows but for the $9.5 mill they paid him this season, the pats could've gotten a damn good WR as his replacement and probably inked a long term deal with a younger better player.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Because, unfortunately, negative emotions tend to have a more powerful impact on memory than positive ones.

It's why you remember the stuff you missed on a test more than the stuff you got right.

Some people after losses on this board are just unbearable. Drop welker becasue he dropped a pass ect.

If you are going to drop welker..you better dam well sure you have someone to fill his shoes and not may people think he is on this roster right now. Edelman is nice...bust still different. I wouldn't trust him like i would welker

 

[ausbacker]

And my point is that simply focusing on a drop or two is a bad way to think about a player's value.

I haven't disagreed with you. I'm simply stating people expect big money players to make those plays (which is reasonable) whilst discounting other missed plays elsewhere.

This offseason is going to be critical in shaping the Patriots short term future. Brady is running out of seasons.

 

[DocHoliday]

1 drop should not change the fact that he is bradys security blanket..why do people only remember the bad? Without welker this year...where are the pats? Even still playing in the title game?

Let's put it this way - what was the last important game that Welker was the difference between winning and losing?

When we win, we win by a lot with everyone contributing. When its close, Welker is Brady's comfort blanket... and we usually lose.

It's an either or thing. If we're winning, we're destroying teams. If we're losing, it's a close game. In those wins Welker hasn't been the reason we won.

I'm not saying Welker is the reason we lost in those losses, but if we can't win with him and he won't take a pay cut to allow a deep threat onto the team, what's the point?

Welker must take a slight pay cut or he's gone. It's as simple as that. There's no decision making to be made. It's clear cut.

 

[chicowalker]

its not just tonight, its the past two seasons.

he's had a lot more crucial drops in big games than prior to 2010 and a lot of them are coming on easy plays that have to be made for a player wanting 8+ mill a year.

face it, Welker is gonna be a 32 yr old 5'9 receiver with slightly above average hands with not much extension ability, progressively getting slower, getting the dropsies, and has had an acl injury.

the only positives on him are he's tough as nails and has a good connection with brady.

neither of those make him worth the price he wants. it would be foolish to tie so much money into him.

Any data to demonstrate the "fact" of him getting the dropsies?

"A lot more crucial drops in big games"? How many is a lot -- 2?

Again, if you want to argue that our money can be spent better elsewhere, that's a discussion to have. But a lot of what you wrote sounds like hyperbole, maybe because we just lost, I don't know.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

who knows but for the $9.5 mill they paid him this season, the pats could've gotten a damn good WR as his replacement and probably inked a long term deal with a younger better player.

and you still think the pats are in the afc title game without welker? he knows this O...he knows what brady is thinking and when he is thinking it. It's hard to get on that level..you can't just sign a guy in FA and expect him to make a huge impact..ochostinko ect

 

[deters]

And my point is that simply focusing on a drop or two is a bad way to think about a player's value.

he's had more than a drop or two over the past two seasons. they also are coming on crucial plays and downs during the regular season and playoffs. he just isn't worth the salary he thinks he deserves.

 

[chicowalker]

who knows but for the $9.5 mill they paid him this season, the pats could've gotten a damn good WR as his replacement and probably inked a long term deal with a younger better player.

who should they have signed instead?


(10 char)

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Let's put it this way - what was the last important game that Welker was the difference between winning and losing?

When we win, we win by a lot with everyone contributing. When its close, Welker is Brady's comfort blanket... and we usually lose.

It's an either or thing. If we're winning, we're destroying teams. If we're losing, it's a close game. In those wins Welker hasn't been the reason we won.

I'm not saying Welker is the reason we lost in those losses, but if we can't win with him and he won't take a pay cut to allow a deep threat onto the team, what's the point?

Welker must take a slight pay cut or he's gone. It's as simple as that. There's no decision making to be made. It's clear cut.

WRs are rarely the sole reason a team won a game..even if that WR makes that 1 handed catch in the endzone..it's a QB driven league and the media would tend to talk up the QB more


Pats are not where they are this year without him. With injuries to gronk, edelman, stallworth..hernandez...they NEEDED him this year and may need him next..we will see

 

[PatriotDynasty_12]

I think it's a bit of an overreaction to criticize the offense as not fooling anyone in the playoffs given their performance last week, as well as last year in the playoffs.

But even if I disagree, I have no problem with the argument if it is allocation of resources. Personally, I think he is more important to the offense than you, but I agree that his price will be a determining factor.

My issue was solely with what appeared to be knocking him for a drop tonight.

MEH....Against the Giants, it wasn't good enough. These tough, physical D's like The Ravens, Giants, Seattle, ...seem to know how to slow our O down.

 

[IllegalContact]

Some people after losses on this board are just unbearable. Drop welker becasue he dropped a pass ect.

If you are going to drop welker..you better dam well sure you have someone to fill his shoes and not may people think he is on this roster right now. Edelman is nice...bust still different. I wouldn't trust him like i would welker

to me its not as much about dumping him as not paying him the 11M or whatever he wiould earn...have to ask the value on that one versus alternatives......hartline may be less

 

[chicowalker]

he's had more than a drop or two over the past two seasons. they also are coming on crucial plays and downs during the regular season and playoffs. he just isn't worth the salary he thinks he deserves.

Obviously he's had more than a drop or two over 2 seasons.

I'll ask again -- any data, or specifics, to support your claims about all the so-called crucial drops?

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

The problem I see with Welker is we have Hernandez, Gronkowski and Lloyd who clog the middle of the field. The Patriots don't have a reliable deep threat. If I was Welker and the Patriots played hard ball in contract negotiations, I walk. As it stands, I fear the cost of re-signing him may prove prohibitive.

Whichever way it's spun, I really don't care about the O. They stalled. The D was pathetic (again).

I'm certainly concerned about the O. There's a lot of money devoted to that side of the ball and they just turned in a performance that would've required the 2000 Ravens D to produce a win.

 

[chicowalker]

MEH....Against the Giants, it wasn't good enough. These tough, physical D's like The Ravens, Giants, Seattle, ...seem to know how to slow our O down.

sure-- in the playoffs the expectation is that you'll play some better defenses. All I'm saying is that the offense has had some pretty good playoffs both seasons. We scored 40+ just last week.

I'd like a deep threat, too. But Lloyd would be my first choice to go if we had to make room for somebody, not Welker. (I realize that Lloyd may not make much $ and that Welker's contract situation makes the discussion of his future much more relevant -- just saying that Welker is an extremely valuable part of the offense, whereas a guy like Lloyd strikes me as compltely expendable)

 

[ausbacker]

I'm certainly concerned about the O. There's a lot of money devoted to that side of the ball and they just turned in a performance that would've required the 2000 Ravens D to produce a win.

No doubt the O is concerning but the D had their pants pulled down by the Ravens and didn't respond. They didn't even give the O a chance to get back into a groove.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

to me its not as much about dumping him as not paying him the 11M or whatever he wiould earn...have to ask the value on that one versus alternatives......hartline may be less

hatline of course would be less..but more durable? Knows brady like the back of his hand like welker does?