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What To Do About the Middle East? Question for Neocons

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by maverick4, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Seriously, what do you neocon idiots want to do about the Middle East? We are not going to "win" in Iraq, and I agree that if we leave now, the Middle East will eventually produce leaders in every country which are very anti-American. If we invade Iran, then the Iraqi's we have been training will turn against us, and other ME countries will have greater solidarity with each other. We can't fight every single Muslim in the entire freaking world. Using nukes is a obviously a bad idea that will make the world hate us, and we'll lose our supposed moral high ground.

    So what do you propose we do? And do you think the Middle East will stop hating us if we back away from supporting Israel with free money and weapons?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  2. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    I believe the cookie cutter replies would be ....

    "The democrats have no plan for victory..."
    "Its Bill Clinton's fault...."
    "By even asking that question you embolden the terrorists, are you on their side? do you hate America?"
    "The plan is for Victory!..."

    Real answer:

    The plan is to take over the remaing oil reserves in the world. Sell it to nations that have yet to explore other fuel alternatives. Make the WORLD work for the corporate elite in America. Rich die richer. Poor die.
     
  3. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Why should we back away from supporting our only friend and ally in that region..? I guess we should just leave Israel to herself in a region that is surrounded by her enemies..? Yeah, great idea :rolleyes:

    If doing the right thing makes us hated by the neanderthals that populate that region, then I can live with that.
     
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Have you ever thought about WHY Middle Easterners started attacking us recently? And no, the answer is not 'they hate our freedom and democracy'.
     
  5. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Replace "freedom" with "Support of Israel"...and we might be getting somewhere.


    They throw around the term "Zionist" like you bushies throw around "Terrorist".

    I need to find out what the term "viscious circle" means, anyone know where I can look that up?
     
  6. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Holy Diver, I understand you better since I read up on your mentors, "Dead Prez" They are a group that advocates revolution that will give all power to the people and end capitalism. I'll ask you a question. Who the heck are you going to vote for that reflects that way of thinking?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  7. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Mentors?...I find hip hop to be today's modern folk music. A fine reflection of the struggle of an average american. (Minus all the bling and BS you hear on the radio, and see on MTV). One only needs to listen to underground poets and their reflection of society so see where the people are really at. They are not in line at the RNC conference, thats for damn sure.


    This years vote?....It'll be the same person I vote for every year.....Raymond...everybody LOVES that guy.


    on the real....
    It depends a lot on the coming war. Since I think its my right to keep my vote to myself...I've voted for the same guy in the last two elections...and guess what? he didn't win, nor was he appointed.
     
  8. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    This issue has been discussed in here before so I will give a brief review of what would be considered two of the primary factors:

    1) If we are talking about Osama, one of his big beefs was our "occupation" of Holy Land in 1990-91 when we went to Saudi Arabia with the ultimate goal of freeing Kuwait. He never forgave us for that one.

    2) Other middle-easterners hate us for (among other reasons) our support of and friendship with Israel. I have never denied that that is a fact. But we should not refrain from doing the right thing because, gosh darn it, other people might not like us (especially when those "other people" are mindless savages stuck with 7th century thinking and 20th century weapons).
     
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For the same reason they (the Islamist) attack the Germans French, Spanish,Russians, Buddhist's in Thailand Hindu's in India and the Philippines. The want to impose Sharia law worldwide. None of these other countires support Israel but are targets of the Islamist.
     
  10. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Do neocons know that Iran historically has been a US ally, and only in recent years has turned sour against us? WHY? Think about it.
     
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They were nominally an ally when the Shah was in power. When the Islamist took over and imposed Sharia law they ceased being an ally. Israel is only incidental to their dislike of US.
     
  12. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Ha!..before the Iraq invasion....Bush didn't even know Sunnis hated Shiites, and Shiites hated Sunnis....and they both hated the Kurds.


    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/8/215257/257


    Oborne: I traveled to Boston to meet a former U.S. diplomat who had been a leading authority on Iraq for over a decade. A chance remark made just two months before the war, hinted at how the complexities of Iraq had bewildered Americans at the highest levels.
    Peter Galbraith - former U.S. diplomat: January 2003 the President invited three members of the Iraqi opposition to join him to watch the Super Bowl. In the course of the conversation the Iraqis realized that the President was not aware that there was a difference between Sunni and Shiite Muslims. He looked at them and said, "You mean...they're not, you know, there, there's this difference. What is it about?"



    JANUARY 2003!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  13. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Right, which is why invading Iraq is a long-term strategic disaster for this country. Iraq is in a civil war, whoever establishes power will be anti-American, and Iranians will expand their influence over the entire region.

    But what do we do NOW, since it is clear neocons will support Israel no matter what? Are you going to nuke the entire Middle East? What can be done.
     
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How we behave towards Israel will have little effect on the agenda of the Islamist movement.


    BTW besides throwing the Jews under the bus what solutions do you offer?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  15. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    why don't we defnd the Armenians like we defend the Jews?
     
  16. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I think Israel has everything to do with the current terrorist movement against us. Muslims have not been on a 'conquer the world' routine throughout history. They have only been attacking us in recent history. If they really had a world agenda, why is this only a recent phenomenon?

    There is one point on which we can agree, which is that establishing a democracy that has religious freedom and ethnic tolerance in Iraq is the best move possible. Having another ally in the Middle East will diminish our need to continually supply Israel with free money and advanced weapons which end up pissing people off at us.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Since I've answered your question, why don't you share with us your views on the matter...? Why is it they just don't like us over there...?
     
  18. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Great idea... let's cave in to the savage Muslims and just abandon the only western-style government in that region that actually allows their citizens to enjoy basic human rights :rolleyes:
     
  19. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    The internecine strife in Iraq has nothing to do with politics.

    It has everything to do with religion. Sunni And Shiites have been at each other's throats for hundreds of years. The Bush policy of imposing "democracy " in this country has no meaning for these people.

    By placing our troops between these fanatical nitwits we simply become the bullseye de juer for those who wish to manifest their rage on the easiest target of opportunity.

    To think we can impose any political system on this dysfunctional society displays the incredible lack of understanding Bush has of the mentality of the region.
     
  20. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Quigon, you're horribly misinformed about Israel in this regard. Israel denies non-Jewish people many rights in its own state, and engages in multiple questionable acts as well, so I wouldn't make it such a black and white issue in terms of good guys and bad guys as you make it out to be. I know Palestinians and terrorists have done inexcusable things; my main point is you can't just paint one group of people as angels and the other as pure evil.

    Let's keep this thread debate on what can be done now, as well as whether you think reducing Israeli aid will deflect the hate against us.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007

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