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What Super Bowl champs were built around a dominant WR?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by RayClay, Oct 13, 2006.

  1. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    People are talking about #1 picks and 10 mil plus for Randy Moss because he will make the difference for another championship.

    I like to watch the guy myself, but winning is what we're here for, right? The Pats know how to win the big games and their's no evidence Randy does.

    Once Tice became coach and publicly said his job was to get the ball to Moss, the records went down hill.

    My point is what teams have won super Bowls by building around a super star receiver?

    Patriots-Troy Brown had over a hundred catches, but he's a possession guy.
    Denver- Rod Smith free agent
    Pitt-A fine tough receiver in Hines. Without big fast Burress they go all the way.
    Bucs-Keyshawn had a fine year, but so did Jurevicius and McCardell
    Rams-totally passing team, but relied on four-Holt, Bruce, Hakim and Proehl.
    Ravens-Ismael? I don't think so.

    Do we really think Moss will make the difference, or do we just want to watch a few spectacular catches?

    I think a balanced attack wins myself.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2006
  2. amazinPats

    amazinPats Rookie

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    The whole point in considering adding Porter or Moss is to create that balanced attack.
  3. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    Good point. But our offense has been built on multiple receivers, TEs and backs plus a powerful running game. How can you justify 10 million salary and trading away a #1 pick when he isn't going to be featured every play?
  4. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

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    That's fair, but we're not talking about getting weaker at another position here. It's a draft pick, and a low-1st rounder at that [I can't see Oakland accepting less than a 1st]. The Pats as presently constructed are pretty thin at the position. Adding Moss not only opens up the field for the running game but he stretches it for Brady and really opens up the middle for Watson who has been as quiet as a mouse so far save dropping a TD pass against the Jets.

    Also, if they did make the move, it's safe to assume they've done their homework and won't take him on if they think he can blow up the clubhouse.

    I saw Cris Carter on Cold Pizza earlier this week. He said Moss was spoiled because he was on some good Minny teams early in his career and that he would behave if he was traded to a contender.

    I'd make the move for a 1st rounder.
  5. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    We're talking about a salary comparable to Seymour and it's not going to weaken us elsewhere?

    By the way, Chris carter was a fine receiver. His opinions on football have been some of the worst I've heard from any one in the media, bar none.
  6. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    By the way, no one has addressed the Thread title question.
  7. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Maybe that's because, of your last 20 thread titles, it's not one of the 19 smartest. Arguably, no Super Bowl champ has ever been built around a single player. Or, if it has, that player was generally a QB (Lawrence Taylor and Ray Lewis notwithstanding).
  8. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    I'll assume you mean not up to my extremely intelligent standard?:D

    The Vikings with Mike Tice were built around the Randy ratio.

    The Eagles came close for years and went for T.O. to get them over the top.

    We are working in 4 new receivers three with NFL experience and one a high draft pick.

    Yet posters want to trade a #1 and more and take on a 10 mil plus salary.

    The point of any move should be to get closer to the Super Bowl, so I don't think my premise is that outlandish.

    By the way Michael Irvin caught 111 balls in 1995, while the only other receiver listed caught 38.
  9. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

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    I was speaking to the fact that you're not trading someone off your active roster. Someone in the other thread mentioned trading Samuel for him, I wouldn't do that at all. As for the cap room, we have it this year, we seem to have it next year. And with the new CBA, the cap went way up, so $11 million against the cap 2 years from now is not the same as it was when he signed the contract.

    Cris Carter does however, he says, speak to Randy Moss frequently and he did play w/ him for awhile. He's qualified to speak about Moss, IMO.

    And the Patriots are built around Tom Brady and a defense.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2006
  10. broadwayjoe

    broadwayjoe Rookie

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    Well the 49ers had two Hall of fame quarterbacks and one dominant receiver by the name of Jerry Rice and by saying that wouldn't you like to see Tom Brady have a big time receiver also cause he's one heck of a quarterback
    and the way we are concentrating on the offensive side of the ball this year
    through the draft and now have a chance to add to that as long as the team does not give up to much I think its worth a shot. We do have the quarterback lets get him some help maybe the future Super Bowl titles won't come down to field goals.
  11. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    Chris Carter was pretty much his mentor and probably helped him adjust as well as he has.

    I just haven't agreed with Carters opinions before, so why would I value them now? He's always wrong about the Patriots for instance.

    There's no doubt Moss is a spectacular talent. If he was available for cheap for some reason I'dsay sure.

    But paying somebody Seymour type money, even if we can afford it, might wreck the chemistry IMO.

    Also, I like our emphasis on the run and I just don't think Moss is going to be a Patriot type if we spread the ball around as we usually do.

    I personally feel we have tons of untapped potential and as good a shot at the trophy as anyone and I don't want to screw it up.

    Reasonable people can certainly disagree.

    Fencer's already told me my thread title's stupid, so I'll leave it at that.:D
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2006
  12. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    I was about to say, "Ermmm.... the 49ers," before I read your post.

    Also...

    The Cowboys had Irvin and Novacek.

    The Steelers had Stallworth and Swann.

    If you don't think a WR of Moss's calibre would improve this offense, you're kidding youself.
  13. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    I mentioned Irvin in 1995. It is surprising how conservative offenses have ruled in the last 7 of 10 years, (Denver, Pats, Pitt, Balt).

    There's no doubt Moss is extremely talented.

    There is a chance that the chemistry of a team that spreads the ball and is leaning more to the ground game might be affected.

    I just don't see the need to gamble a #1 plus 10 milllion a year for a team that's already on the way in my opinion.

    I guess people feel all 4 of our new receivers will be busts, or won't be as good as Branch and Givens. I don't feel that way.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2006
  14. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    Neither do I. But when you have a chance to get a good player, at a reasonable price, they go for it I say. It's yet to be known whether we can steal another player from the Raiders though.
  15. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    I would definitely take a shot at him at the right price, so we could cut him if it didn't work out.

    I don't think a #1 and 10 million is that price.

    This will be the second team he's left on a negative note. We know from the Pats success that it takes more than running and jumping to be a winner.

    Moss has had a lot of incidents where his desire and discipline etc. have been questionable.
  16. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    When the fans complain that their team's Super Bowl margin of victory is consistently too small, you know these are good old days ...
  17. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    That is the crux of the problem here. Do we risk our chemistry so our victory margins are higher?

    Belichick quote: ''It's not about collecting talent. It's about building a team.''
  18. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    Without Jerry Rice you would have to wonder how many Super Bowls the 49ers would have won or how Montana would have been considered the best ever...Simply he and Jerry were unstoppable for so long its hard to imagine what it would have been like without Rice there...Same for Aikman who I think would be far less of a Hall Of Fame material without Irvin,Bradshaw without Swann or Stallworth - Usually behind every great Hall Of Fame quarterback stands a Hall Of Fame type receiver.
    If Brady never has that kind of WR game changing player to throw to continually year after year while he is still able to play young,it will be a misjustice for what we are witnessing as likely the best QB ever to play the game,we need to get lucky in the draft or some type of awesome trade next year to give Tom that luxury all the past greats have had - (this goes without saying IF Chad Jackson can't do it by next year we will need to get someone else who will)- Tom deserves that just like all the other HOFers did. - For this year we go with what we have and hope its enough to go all the way,It will only make Tom better when he hopefully has a true legitimate threat to throw to next year whether it is from within the roster or is on the outside looking to get in.​
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2006
  19. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    In 40 Super Bowls, only 7 have been won without a HOF or multiple probowl receiver in his prime on the roster. Curiously, on 5 of those occasions, BB has been an integral part of the team!;) The only two other "exceptions" were arguably the two greatest defenses in the history of football, the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens.

    1966: Carrol Dale (3 Pro Bowls)
    1967: Boyd Dowler (2 Pro Bowls)
    1968: Don Maynard HOF
    1969: Otis Taylor HOF
    1970: Roy Jefferson (3 Pro Bowls)
    1971: Bob Hayes (3 Pro Bowls) and Lance Alworth HOF
    1972: Paul Warfield HOF
    1973: Paul Warfield HOF
    1974: Stallworth HOF Swann HOF
    1975: Stallworth HOF Swann HOF
    1976: Fred Biletnikoff HOF and Cliff Branch (4 Pro Bowls)
    1977: Drew Pearson (3 Pro Bowls)
    1978: Stallworth HOF Swann HOF
    !979: Stallworth HOF Swann HOF
    1980: Cliff Branch (4 pro bowls)
    1981: Dwight Clark (2 Pro Bowls)
    1982: Art Monk (3 pro bowls)
    1983: Cliff Branch (4 PBs)
    1984: Dwight Clark (2 probowls)
    1985: none
    1986: none
    1987: Gary Clark (4 probowls)
    1988: Jerry Rice HOF
    1989: Jerry Rice HOF
    1990: none
    1991: Gary Clark (4 probowls)
    1992: Michael Irvin (5 probowls)
    1993: Michael Irvin (5 probowls)
    1994: Jerry Rice HOF
    1995: Michael Irvin (5 probowls)
    1996: Antonio Freeman (2 probowls)
    1997: Rod Smith (3 PBs)
    1998: Rod Smith (3 PBs)
    1999: Torry Holt (4 PBs), Isaac Bruce (4 PBs)
    2000: none
    2001: none
    2002: K. Johnson (3 PBs)
    2003: none
    2004: none
    2005: Hines Ward (4 PBs)

    This remarkable "coincidence" illustrates why BB places so little value on the WR position. However... BB is a chameleon. If the team can be improved, he can change styles. If Randy Moss is available IMO the Pats should acquire him. Time may have diminished his skills somewhat, but also matured him to the point where he could be integrated into a near championship caliber roster. Moss could complement Brady as he enters his QBing prime, Maroney would face weakened defensive fronts, hopefully Chad Jackson could become a #2 able to transition to a #1 as Moss' contract expires in two years, Ben Watson would have room to stretch the field as he develops, and the O would be unstoppable and affordable in salary cap terms for the next 4 years. Great receivers, while not the sine qua non of SB Champion teams, obviously make the road to victory a hell of alot easier. Oakland acquired Moss for the #7 overall pick + a 7th rd pick + a starting LBer. Because the Pats 2007 1st rd pick will likely be a late rdr, IMO Al Davis wouldn't part with Moss unless the Pats fork over a minimum of a 1st + a 2nd/3rd pick. I would consummate that deal. It would still leave the Pats with at least 2 1st day selections (depending on Givens' compensation). The draft appears to be a bit weak on the high end this year anyway. If by some good fortune BB can pry Moss from Oakland for less, all the better.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2006
  20. DCPatsFan

    DCPatsFan Rookie

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    There is no way BB and the Pats would deal for Randy Moss - it just isn't going to happen

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