What really happened in the second round?

[The Scrizz]

you may say I'm a dreamer...

Don't feel bad. John Lennon got shot in the head. You just have to watch us pound ours against one.

 

[captain stone]

On the other side, we have one of the NFL's most extensive scouting operations, with a track record of above-average drafting, spending a second-round pick on Wilson...

Are you sure it's one of the league's most extensive scouting operations?
Bill does run a bare-bones coaching staff, after all; that way, there's less of a chance
that someone might have an opinion that differs from his. It would therefore not surprise
to learn that he runs his scouting operation similarly.

 

[captain stone]

Wow, never thought of it that way. Given the company you put him in it is no wonder you guys are so upset, he sucks. Maybe you, Fred, and Triumph can take over and right the ship?

I'll be thinking of you guys when they hoist that next Lombardi.

Don't hold your breath while waiting for that next one.

 

[patchick]

Are you sure it's one of the league's most extensive scouting operations?
Bill does run a bare-bones coaching staff, after all; that way, there's less of a chance
that someone might have an opinion that differs from his. It would therefore not surprise
to learn that he runs his scouting operation similarly.

I think it's pretty well known that the Patriots are one of the few teams that don't subscribe to the pooled drafting services to save money, but instead run their own full scouting operation to evaluate players based on THEIR criteria.

You don't baffle the draftniks year after year by spending the LEAST on scouting. On the contrary, going cheap leads you to consensus picks. (That's why the Bengals, a notoriously bare-bones operation, always come away with awesome drafts based on draftnik value calculations.)

Running your own operation and sticking to your own value projections makes you unpredictable to outsiders. It means you'll have more head-scratcher misses, but also a lot more bullseyes out of left field.

 

[mayoclinic]

Are you sure it's one of the league's most extensive scouting operations?
Bill does run a bare-bones coaching staff, after all; that way, there's less of a chance
that someone might have an opinion that differs from his. It would therefore not surprise
to learn that he runs his scouting operation similarly.

I really think the above statement shows your negative bias. First, the Pats do not run a "bare-bones coaching staff". BB puts together a coaching staff that fits his personality and his vision for the team. Not all teams have bloated coaching staffs, and the Pats' are by no means "bare-boned" in that regard. The prefer to grow and promote from within and get people who buy into their organization values and team vision rather than bring in big outside names. The fact that their coaches are in so much demand from other teams speaks to the fact that it is not a second rate operation.

As for the scouting department, the Pats are one of the few teams in the NFL that rely on their own scouts rather than on the Blesto and National scouting services. The scout fairly extensively.

Tom Curran wrote 5 years ago:

Which NFL scouting departments do the best job year after year in stocking their roster? Talking to scouts, coaches and general managers at the NFL Scouting Combine, the same franchises came up over and over. The Indianapolis Colts, New England Patriots, San Diego Chargers, Baltimore Ravens, New York Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers and Green Bay Packers.

“Look at the people who have good records,” said Colts president Bill Polian, probably the most consistently successful GM of the past two decades. “One flows from the other.”

Curran: Little wonder that elite teams have best scouts - NFL- NBC Sports

NBC profiled these "elite scouting departments" back in 2008:

Special feature: NFL

Mike Reiss and Mike Rodak have highlighted some of the personnel on the Pats' scouting staff:

Highlighting Pats' scouting staff - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
A look inside scouting department - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

The Pats not only have one of the larger contingents of scouts of any NFL team, their scouts are probably among the most tuned in to the kind of players that the coaching staff likes and that fit the mentality and schemes of the team. The profiles and ratings done by the national services are generic and do not address how prospects fit into different schemes and different team styles.

 

[Ivan]

Don't hold your breath while waiting for that next one.

I know it, they were so far off this year, but that's OK because you folks never gave them a chance then either. That said i'm sure vegas will be on your side, and give them no shot whatsoever.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Ha! I am a Pollyanna compared to the DBs on the radio! Save your bile for Felger and Gaspar and Borges and the WEEI nabobs of negativity. I'll bet that after the three game run by the Sox this weekend that tomorrow all WEEI sourpusses will be doing is complaining about Youkie and trying to figure out schemes to trade him away for nothing....

I was wrong; I turned on WEEI this morning and after I fought through all the commercials I got to hear Callahan complaining about Bobby V. and only one short complaint about Youk. There was not a word about Salty and his 5 hits...no not a peep. Like I said...I am a ray of sunshine compared to the deluxe douche nozzles on WEEI.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Are you sure it's one of the league's most extensive scouting operations?
Bill does run a bare-bones coaching staff, after all; that way, there's less of a chance
that someone might have an opinion that differs from his. It would therefore not surprise
to learn that he runs his scouting operation similarly.

Ha that was very funny but I am afraid that some of the dour serious types on this board will jump all over you...

 

[patfanken]

Are you sure it's one of the league's most extensive scouting operations?
Bill does run a bare-bones coaching staff, after all; that way, there's less of a chance
that someone might have an opinion that differs from his. It would therefore not surprise
to learn that he runs his scouting operation similarly.

But what the Pats don't spend on coaching assistants, they DO spend on their scouting operation. You should know that the Pats aren't members of either national scouting services that most of the league uses to provide them with scouting data. Instead the Pats rely on their own scouts and personal contacts that BB has developed and trusts over the years.

BB scouts for players who he hopes will fit the Patriots' needs. Not all players do, even good ones on other teams. There's an old expression in the fight game, that "styles makes fights". With the Pats, one player who might fit well with another team. may not have seen the same success with us.

On th positive side of this off season, I see BB accumulating the assets he needed to regain a lot of the flexibility he lost while he transitioned the defense from one generation to another. this will be a defense with a lot more talent, more speed, and will be infinitely more versatile than the ones we've had recently.

It will be better than last year (hard to be worse), and will continue to grow more efficient as the very young group matures over the next few years. I don't see a radical Texan-like worst to first kind of turn around. BB just doesn't play THAT kind of defense. But I really really like what he's building

 

[Ivan]

Ha that was very funny but I am afraid that some of the dour serious types on this board will jump all over you...

Actually the "dour serious types" are the negative a-holes who give you "likes" for your always negative a-hole posts. The people who take issue with your constant misery are those who enjoy this team and all the success they have and simply get sick and tired of the nation of misery constantly trying to spread their negativity. Nice try trying to turn the tables but it doesn't work when all you guys ever do is b.tch.

 

[AzPatsFan]

While I think you make some nice points on painting Tavon Wilson as having the athleticism of Merriweather and the character/leadership of Sanders, I have a hard time accepting that the "carefully aimed rifle shot" (aka Tavon Wilson) was worth the 48th pick. Even if Wilson pans out to be a very good NFL player, I don't think its the best strategy to rely on a non blue chip draft prospect to be the missing piece of the puzzle on a Super Bowl contender in his rookie year - especially at a position like safety.

I'll be the first one to admit it if I'm wrong, but I think Kendall Reyes would have been a much better pick at 48.

But it wasn't his only try. He signed a ex-average-starter in Gregory, and an aging star CB, who has played some S as he aged, in Allen...

 

[Water Boy]

But it wasn't his only try. He signed a ex-average-starter in Gregory, and an aging star CB, who has played some S as he aged, in Allen...

If we have two other legit starters at FS, why didn't BB draft the BPA?

When you take positional need out of the equation, I hope we can all agree that Wilson was not the BPA.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I was wrong; I turned on WEEI this morning and after I fought through all the commercials I got to hear Callahan complaining about Bobby V. and only one short complaint about Youk. There was not a word about Salty and his 5 hits...no not a peep. Like I said...I am a ray of sunshine compared to the deluxe douche nozzles on WEEI.

And the day after that the Douches on WEEI were complaining about Beckett. It was that Becket was a cancer and Becket should be dumped and ... ...later that day Beckett goes out and throws 9 scoreless innings. Yesterday they tried to save save and not look like douches but it was too late...the media in this area is shamless

 

[Metaphors]

If we have two other legit starters at FS, why didn't BB draft the BPA?

If Barrett is healthy, he was the game 1 starter last year. Considering he is only 27 yo, had only 1 healthy season of development and has amazing size/speed attributes, might not be the best idea to forget about him.

Gregory is a tougher evaluation since Weddle had him playing out of position the last couple of years. Belichick thinks he can be an effective centerfielder even though his responsibilities were different in SD. Get that evaluation right and you get Mike Vrabel. Get it wrong and you get Adalius Thomas.

Outside of the first round, Belichick doesn't necessarily draft for the immediate short-term. Wilson should be given time to develop and only have situational responsibilities year 1. If those situations include defending late leads in the AFCC game or SB, then I would think a 2nd round pick is a small price to pay.

When you take positional need out of the equation, I hope we can all agree that Wilson was not the BPA.

Why would you want to take positional considerations out of the equation? For that matter, why would you take any considerations (cap, future contract status, ST contributions, legal situations, ability to handle weather, etc) out of the equation? The "B" in "BPA" is a value judgement. Making a value judgement without all available information seems like a formula for failure.

 

[Water Boy]

Outside of the first round, Belichick doesn't necessarily draft for the immediate short-term. Wilson should be given time to develop and only have situational responsibilities year 1. If those situations include defending late leads in the AFCC game or SB, then I would think a 2nd round pick is a small price to pay.

At pick 48 I think there were a lot of players on the board with higher ceilings that could help contribute. IMHO I'd prefer to see Kendall Reyes and his high motor providing an interior pass rush defending late leads in the AFCC or SB.

Why would you want to take positional considerations out of the equation? For that matter, why would you take any considerations (cap, future contract status, ST contributions, legal situations, ability to handle weather, etc) out of the equation? The "B" in "BPA" is a value judgement. Making a value judgement without all available information seems like a formula for failure.

I agree that BPA includes all factors you mention and that positional need must sometimes trump taking the BPA. In this instance, I think we reached for positional need and did not maximize the value of the pick.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I read what Belichick said in whatever book it was differently. I don't believe he said you have to target your biggest and fill it. What he said, I believe, is that if you TRY to fill a need you need to think it's with a player who can play or you'll still have the need next year. In other words, there would be no point in drafting Wilson if you don't think he can fill the need you are looking for. The only takeaway I get from the quote about filling needs and the taking of Wilson is that Belichick, et al, thinks that Wilson has a good chance to fill the hole they have and otherwise they would have gone with another year with what they have and tried again next year.

It still looks like they panic'ed. Even more so now. This was a bad pick especially considering that this year the draft is loaded with safeties. The Patriots could gotten a quality CB such as Casey Hayward last year and got a top safety this year. Now this year they will be desperate for CB after whiffing on Casey Hayward: "According to Pro Football Focus, opposing quarterbacks had a passer rating of 31.1 against him, the lowest against any corner in the league"

OOOPS

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The Patriots could gotten a quality CB such as Casey Hayward last year and got a top safety this year.

McCourty nearly won DROY his rookie season, and we all saw what happened last year. . . .

 

[DaBruinz]

This thread just needs to be locked..

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

McCourty nearly won DROY his rookie season, and we all saw what happened last year. . . .

So what does that have to do with anything? An extra CB playing at a DROY level last season would have helped a LOT unlike Tavon WIlson.

So they whiffed on a desperately CBs last year to get a second tier safety when this year they could have gotten their bluechip safety but they will be desperate for a CB this time.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

:spygate::spygate::spygate::spygate::spygate::spygate:

......









......

:spygate::spygate::spygate: