What real depth looks like - 2015

[patfanken]

What real depth looks like position by position:

QB:
Brady
Garapolo

Summary: The GOAT plus the best looking QB draftee in the BB era. A kid in the pre-season who looked every bit as good as any of the rookie QB's who are playing. CHECK


RB:
Blount
Gray
Bolden
White
Devlin
Vereen (FA)

Summary: 2 good move-the-stick pounders, a versatile back up/ST ace, an iffy 3rd down back, and a proven FA re-sign candidate if the young 3rd down back doesn't progress. A proven blocking FB with decent hands And that's not counting the potential of re-signing Ridley and the kid we stashed on IR. CHECK


WR:
LaFell
Edelman
Amendola
Dobson
Boyce
Tyms

Summary: a good mix of size, speed and quickness and the amazing chance for Brady to work with most of the same group 2 years in a row. That could be an important feature for any offense, even more so for this one. These are 6 young talents all under contract for next year. Regardless of what happens with Boyce, Tyms and Amendola, Brady will finally have some stability to go along with talent at WR. CHECK.


TE:
Gronk
Wright
Hooman

Summary: 16 TD's already from the TE group and we haven't really tapped Wright's potential yet. When your biggest issue at the position is about the #3 TE, who the HC likes, TE isn't an issue. CHECK


OL
Solder
Connolly
Stork
Wendell
Volmer
Cannon
Fleming
Devey
Kline

Summary - If we didn't do a thing this would be a very deep, experienced and versatile OL. I don't doubt that it would be better than the current one with Fleming or Cannon possibly replacing Wendell or Connolly, and Devey and Kline adding another year's experience, and Stork improving. Check


DE:
Ninkovich
Jones
Moore
Buchanan

Summary - 2 top 15 guys backed up by 2 tall, long armed, fast guys with a few years to grow. Add that to the possibility of keeping Ayers and That is a DEEP and talented group - CHECK


DT:
Vince
Chris Jones
Easley
Siliga

Summary - All 4 have shown they can give us some push up the middle and be solid against the run. You'd expect continued improvement from Easely and Siliga and more of the same from CJones and Vince - Even better if you can keep a rock like Branch. CHECK


LB:
Mayo
Hightower
Collins
Cassilas

Summary: That's more depth than you think when you consider most of the DE's also can play OLB, and the base D usually has 5 DB's 3 high quality starters for essentially 2 positions and what has proven to be a solid pass coverage/ST ace back up. CHECK


S:
McCourty (he's not going anywhere)
Harmon
Wilson
Ebner

Summary: I would contend that all three of the really young guys (Harmon Wilson and Ebner) have improved to point where none are liabilities anymore and Wilson has shown signs of really coming on. Add a rejuvenated Chung, and that's a solid deep, and very versatile safety group. CHECK


CB:
Browner
Dennard
Arrington
Ryan
Butler

Summary: This as it stands is the deepest and most talent best CB group since 2007 Every one of those guys have had some very good moments over long stretches of games. Then add that Revis guy, and a very solid secondary becomes a great one CHECK


So without adding a single draft pick, or a single FA from another team we should be able to expect to see ANOTHER serious contender for the title that (because of improved health and experience) should be even a better version than this one.

Where are the major holes in that roster? I don't see any. Of course you'd LOVE to upgrade on the interior of the OL, but nothing would collapse if you didn't. The WR clique will probably want to bring in every shiny new toy that presents itself, but that is never going to change. The point is that the CURRENT team is looks like its going to have a great playoff run. And if that excites you, based on this small exercise, it doesn't look like its going to stop anytime soon. Certainly not next year.

I have one fantasy for next year. In that fantasy Fleming replaces Cannon from my old fantasy as my bruising RG, Stork continues to improve and our LG will be manned by our yet to be named first round draft pick. Cannon becomes the ultimate swing T while Wendell, Connolly, Kline and Devey battle to the death to see who gets the other 2-3 backup roles. Now THAT my friends would be one hell of an OL.

Feel free to add your thoughts, but from where I stand at this point, a very good situation can only become better over the next off season.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

I'm coming back to read this after the Patriots play in the Superbowl (and not before)

 

[woolster22]

What real depth looks like position by position:

QB:
Brady
Garapolo

Summary: The GOAT plus the best looking QB draftee in the BB era. A kid in the pre-season who looked every bit as good as any of the rookie QB's who are playing. CHECK

RB:
Blount
Gray
Boldin
White
Devlin
Vareen (FA)

Summary: 2 good move the stick pounders, a versatile back up/ST ace, an iffy 3rd down back, and a proven FA re-sign candidate if the young 3rd down back doesn't progress. A proven blocking FB with decent hands And that's not counting the potential of resigning Ridley and the kid we stashed on IR CHECK

WR:
LaFell
Edelman
Amendola
Dobson
Boyce
Tyms

Summary: a good mix of size, speed and quickness and the amazing chance for Brady to work with most of the same group 2 years in a row. That could be an important feature for any offense, even more so for this one. These are 6 young talents all under contract for next year. Regardless of what happens with Boyce Tyms and Amendola, Brady will finally have some stability to go along with talent at WR CHECK.

TE:
Gronk
Wright
Hooman

Summary: 16 TD's already from the TE group and we haven't really tapped Wright's potential yet. When your biggest issue at the position is about the #3 TE, who the HC likes, TE isn't an issue CHECK

OL
Solder
Connolly
Stork
Wendell
Volmer
Cannon
Flemming
Devey
Kline

Summary - If we didn't do a thing this would be a very deep, experienced and versatile OL. I don't doubt that it would be better than the current one with Flemming or Cannon possibly replacing Wendell or Connolly and Devey and Kline adding another year's expeience, and Stork improving. Check

DE
Ninkovich
Jones
Moore
Buchannon

Summary - 2 top 15 guys backed up by 2 tall, long armed, fast guys with a few years to grow. Add that to the possibility of keeping Ayers and That is a DEEP and talented group - CHECK

DT:
Vince
Chris Jones
Easley
Siliga

Summary - All 4 have shown they can give us some push up the middle and be solid against the run. You'd expect continued improvement from Easely and Siliga and more of the same from CJones and Vince - Even better if you can keep a rock like Branch CHECK

LB
Mayo
Hightower
Collins
Cassilas

Summary: That's more depth than you think when you consider most of the DE's also can play OLB, and the base D usually has 5 DB's 3 high quality starters for essentially 2 positions and what has proven to be a solid pass coverage/ST ace back up. CHECK

S
McCourty (he's not going anywhere)
Harmon
Wilson
Ebner

Summary: I would contend that all three of the really young guys (Harmon Wilson and Ebner) have improved to point where none are liabilities anymore and Wilson has shown signs of really coming on. Add a rejuvenated Chung, and that's a solid deep, and very versatile safety group CHECK

CB
Browner
Dennard
Branch
Arrington
Ryan

Summary: This as it stands is the deepest and most talent best CB group since 2007 Every one of those guys have had some very good moments over long stretches of games. Then add that Revis guy, and a very solid secondary becomes a great one CHECK

So without adding a single draft pick, or a single FA from another team we should be able to expect to see ANOTHER serious contender for the title that (because of improved health and experience) should be even a better version than this one.

Where are the major holes in that roster? I don't see any. Of course you'd LOVE to upgrade on the interior of the OL, but nothing would collapse if you didn't. The WR clique will probably want to bring in every shiny new toy that presents itself, but that is never going to change. The point is that the CURRENT team is looks like its going to have a great playoff run. And if that excites you, based on this small exercise, it doesn't look like its going to stop anytime soon. Certainly not next year.

I have one fantasy for next year. In that fantasy Flemming replaces Cannon from my old fantasy as my bruising RG, Stork continues to improve and our LG will be manned by our yet to be named first round draft pick. Cannon becomes the ultimate swing T while Wendell Connolly, Kline and Devey battle to the death to see who gets the other 2-3 backup roles. Now THAT my friends would be one hell of an OL

Feel free to add your thoughts, but from where I stand at this point, a very good situation can only become better over the next off season.

While I love the idea of ol in round one, if there is a dl stud available, I would not be upset with that choice. Hell, if a high end position player drops...why not? I think next year is truly a bpa draft.

Hell, you named 48 players. We all hope Revis is back. 49. Long snapper and kickers gets us to 52.

BB gets to be BB this year. Maybe he wants to package up, maybe he gets back to trading picks back. The only places I see obvious room for replacement are the back end of both lines. Therefore I expect/hope our early picks address these positions in some fashion. At the same time, if a blue chip te or to lesser extent rb/wr falls and nobody calls...take him.

 

[patsfan-1982]

I think they need 2 more WR's and a starting RB on offense maybe even a G and on defense they need one more mid level pass rusher even if they re-sign Ayers and a SS that can come in and push chung for the starting job, we will see what happens with Revis McCourty and wilfork,

but over all I agree the pats are in good shape they will have the money to re-sign there own and add more dept through the Draft and FA

 

[Brewskies]

It is nice to have a core in place moving into an other year.

 

[Tom meets Kaepernick]

That WR group isn't anything special. Dobson's on IR for the year, Boyce has shown NOTHING(let me repeat this again..NOTHING) and Tyms has one catch worth noting. So we have 2 and a half receivers worth something; 3 if Amendola sees the light and actually starts to contribute more. Now if you add in the TE's and Vereen into an overall receiving category, it's well above average. Not as great as Denver or Indianapolis but few, if any, teams really are.

Aside from that, this team has some of its best depth in quite some time. Let's get a win tomorrow and no injuries and we are right on track for an enjoyable postseason ride.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

ya WR is fairly weak. But Lafell has stepped up big time. If he didn't to take the load off of edelman we would have been in trouble

 

[supafly]

While I love the idea of ol in round one, if there is a dl stud available, I would not be upset with that choice. Hell, if a high end position player drops...why not? I think next year is truly a bpa draft.

I think most of the recent drafts have been BPA drafts, with the team often having the luxury of being able to choose someone who may take a season or two to learn the system and contribute. Hell, just this year we saw a first round pick coming off of two ACL tears in his college career. I'm sure they were mentally prepared to ease him into things without a high expectation of needing to contribute immediately.

This is due to Belichick having success at both the short-term and the long-term planning.

Now…I'm hardly suggesting that he's been perfect, but historically speaking, I think he's been very good, and we continue to go into the offseason without a high number of needs/holes during most years--at least when compared to the other 31 teams. Usually, it's a few spots that need addressing, with some depth issues, and that's a pretty good position to be in.

 

[supafly]

And for what it may be worth to anyone, I'd be quite happy with another DL selection in the first or second rounds. I think that we need to start preparing for life without big Vince, and rather quickly.

 

[supafly]

ya WR is fairly weak. But Lafell has stepped up big time. If he didn't to take the load off of edelman we would have been in trouble

I think it's still an area of weakness, at least depth-wise anyway.

That said, it's not going to take all that much to address things, whether that's through the draft again, and/or some low to middle tiered free agency acquisitions that are reasonably priced.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I think it's still an area of weakness, at least depth-wise anyway.

That said, it's not going to take all that much to address things, whether that's through the draft again, and/or some low to middle tiered free agency acquisitions that are reasonably priced.

We can't rely on Dobson anymore and IIRC there are a lot of decent WRs who will be FA. But with Revis and Mccourty extensions on the radar..i wonder how much we will put to the WR position.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The difference Revis has made has made me realize that the constantly "sub-par" secondary was huge in what BB can do with other guys. I say this knowing that Aqib Talib on balance was good here, just not Revis good. The Browner upgrade helps too. With a D predicated on not giving up the big plays, the Revis addition (let's not forget the Ayers addition) has this group looking ready to "trust" with the end of a game.

But damn, I just reviewed the coverage on the helmet-catch-that-shall-not-be-named, and Harrison was all over him, pulling arms away, everything. Just goes to show that it's not over til it's over. The Giants came with their best game, we came out flat... so it was within 4 points which it should never have been.

If you are able to and have not got every frame memorized review it here... I still say a well-timed "in the grasp" whistle would have been appreciated... I guess QB's safety has to be in jeopardy, but in retrospect, he coulda got hurt... feh. It was a good non-call.


So, note to everybody on D: Make this not happen if we make the SB. Note to everybody on O: Score higher in SBs.

 

[supafly]

The difference Revis has made has made me realize that the constantly "sub-par" secondary was huge in what BB can do with other guys. I say this knowing that Aqib Talib on balance was good here, just not Revis good. The Browner upgrade helps too. With a D predicated on not giving up the big plays, the Revis addition (let's not forget the Ayers addition) has this group looking ready to "trust" with the end of a game.

But damn, I just reviewed the coverage on the helmet-catch-that-shall-not-be-named, and Harrison was all over him, pulling arms away, everything. Just goes to show that it's not over til it's over. The Giants came with their best game, we came out flat... so it was within 4 points which it should never have been.

If you are able to and have not got every frame memorized review it here... I still say a well-timed "in the grasp" whistle would have been appreciated... I guess QB's safety has to be in jeopardy, but in retrospect, he coulda got hurt... feh. It was a good non-call.


So, note to everybody on D: Make this not happen if we make the SB. Note to everybody on O: Score higher in SBs.

What in God's name are you trying to do to us here?

 

[Froob]

I really don't understand why you seem to think we're loaded at wide out. Beyond Edelman and LaFell we have no proven talent. A Jabar Gaffney (a good route runner inside and out) is just what the doctor ordered if we can find one this offseason.

 

[Fencer]

I agree for the most part. Some quibbles are highlighted.

What real depth looks like position by position:

WR:
LaFell
Edelman
Amendola
Dobson
Boyce
Tyms

Summary: a good mix of size, speed and quickness and the amazing chance for Brady to work with most of the same group 2 years in a row. That's a low bar for amazement. That could be an important feature for any offense, even more so for this one. These are 6 young talents all under contract for next year. I doubt that about PS guy Boyce, and Amendola's contract isn't appealing. Regardless of what happens with Boyce, Tyms and Amendola, Brady will finally have some stability to go along with talent at WR. CHECK.


DE:
Ninkovich
Jones
Moore
Buchanan

Summary - 2 top 15 guys Really? Ninkovich is top 15 of what? backed up by 2 tall, long armed, fast guys with a few years to grow. Add that to the possibility of keeping Ayers and That is a DEEP and talented group - CHECK

Where are the major holes in that roster? I don't see any. Of course you'd LOVE to upgrade on the interior of the OL, but nothing would collapse if you didn't. Except maybe the pass pocket.

 

[patfanken]

I agree for the most part. Some quibbles are highlighted.

Some comments on your quibbles:
1. When Brady has had good familiarity with his receivers, his game has always improved. In an offense designed around precision and knowing where the receivers are supposed to be, comfort between the QB and receivers is paramount, something Brady hasn't had for a while.

2. I think it was 2 years ago when NO OTHER DE had a larger combined number of tackles, hits, hurries, sacks, and IIRC, it was by a large margin. Last year he was again among the top 5. So when I said Ninko was among the top 15 DE's in the league I was probably UNDERselling him. Ninko doesn't have much of a pedigree, and his entry into the league and first 4 years leaves much to be desired. However in the 4 years he's been a fulltime starter here, his been brilliant if unspectacular....big play after big play, most at key moments and hasn't missed a game in the last 4 years. Not bad for an August pick up brought in to compete for the long snapping job.,

3. I think we both agree that we would like to upgrade the offensive G's. However I think we'd both have to admit that the guys we have playing there now, don't suck, in fact for the most part they are quite good. So while I'd like to think that next year's OG's will be the second incarnation of Logan Mankins and Steven Neal in their primes (Flemming and the #1 pick), if we happen to end up with Dan Connolly and Ryan Wendell again we wouldn't have to cancel plans for a strong run to the superbowl

 

[Ivan]

It was sad having to put the Patsfan from VA on ignore. I really had nothing against him until he Tyreed us.

 

[ausbacker]

I really don't understand why you seem to think we're loaded at wide out. Beyond Edelman and LaFell we have no proven talent. A Jabar Gaffney (a good route runner inside and out) is just what the doctor ordered if we can find one this offseason.

How many teams have quality receiver depth after WR1 and WR2? This doesn't allow for TE, just WR. Of the better units, they look something like this:

• Atlanta has Jones, White, Douglas (okay but not super 3rd option) and Hester
• Chicago has Marshall and Jeffrey (their value is killed by Cutler)
  
• Cincinnati has a nice three in Green, Sanu and Jones
• Cleveland is developing a nice group in Gordon, Hawkins and Benjamin/Gabriel as the 3rd
• Denver has a great 1-2 combination in Thomas and Sanders but the rest is either on the decline (Welker), average (Caldwell) or unproven (Latimer)
• Detroit has Megatron and Tate (excellent 1-2)
• Green Bay has a great spread of talent Nelson, Cobb, Boykin and Adams
  
• Indianapolis has a great spread of talent in Hilton, Wayne, Nicks, Moncrief
  
• New Orleans has a great spread of talent in Colston, Stills, Cooks (the rest are next man up)
• New York Giants are developing a very nice group in Cruz, Beckham and Randle
• Philadelphia has Maclin and Matthews (Cooper is a meh 3rd)
• Pittsburgh has a super impressive group (Brown, Bryant, Wheaton)
  
• San Diego is a nice but not over the top group (Allen, Floyd, Royal)
• San Francisco has a nice collection in name of Crabtree, Boldin, Johnson and Patton
• Tampa Bay has Jackson and Evans (little succession planning here I'd say)
• Washington has a very nice group killed by QB play (Jackson, Garcon, Roberts)

Forgive me if I have glossed over the teams and players but the trend appears to be 2 clear cut stars with a 3rd receiver capable of popping up when needed. Teams like the Packers, Saints, Colts and Steelers are exceptions not the norm.

If Dobson develops, it's easy to see why people may believe the Patriots are okay at WR. They may not be the big names of other teams but most of these teams don't have a TE weapon like the Patriots. I'll admit, I'd like to see them add another savvy free agent to the mix, but it's a decent enough unit especially if LaFell continues to trend in the right direction.

 

[DarrylS]

We are not as deep at WR than we could be, but what we have somehow works very well. My issue is that Brady often does not spread the ball around as much as he should.. often Wright, Hooman, Develin, Amendola, Vereen and the other guys are not part of the game plan or Brady chooses to look beyond them.. our receivers might seem better if they were not the sole focus of the defense..

If there was more trust/diversity amongst the receivers things might look different..

OTOH BB and his crew have done a masterful job of rebuilding this team in front of our eyes.. and has not missed a beat.. this is unparalleled in the modern NFL...

Unless an athlete like Collins is available, then future needs include D and O line..

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I'd like for the Pats to develop a superstar outside receiver. Megatron, Fitzgerald, that level. I love the idea. What we have is a balanced offense that finds a way to score the second most points in the league. Our big guy with vacuum cleaner hands happens to be a TE. If he stays healthy, this offense is enough to win it all. Throw in an elite "stretch the field" WR? Okay yeah, they'd be better. What's encouraging is a D in whose hands we can put the game.