What QB Action(s) If Any Will the Pats Take?

[manxman2601]

As I said, you know much more about the specific prospects than I do, but I have certainly noticed that Tom Savage has been gaining a ton of attention and climbing up the board quite rapidly. I don't believe that many of us (if any of us) actually had him in the top 3 rounds prior to the past month or so. I've actually seen some experts suggest that he could go in the first round, believe it or not.

I hate to make comparisons to any of the current or past players when trying to assess a prospect's talent, but the way that you describe him seems to scream more cerebral traits than anything, and that can go an awful long way with the talent that he already seems to have (limited, but enough). In my opinion, decision making is even more important than raw talent, and I wonder if a guy like Savage may fit that description well?

Will have to do some extensive watching of him this week. Quick take is a mixture of good and bad. He looks like an NFL QB, in part because he plays in a pro-style offense and looks comfortable dropping back from centre. I like his movement in the pocket and his recognition of pressure and he has a very easy arm. There's a lot to like there. But, I'm not convinced that he's very good at recognising what the safeties are doing and his accuracy over the middle looks spotty. He's also not that much more athletic than Brady or Mallett. Good NFL build though. He's intriguing certainly but I'm not convinced yet.

I will say this though. His college career amounts to Rutgers which we know BB is comfortable with and Pittsburgh who run a pro style offense. There was an article I read about BB not liking the receivers coming out of college because of the simplistic offenses and terminologies used in CFB. If Rutgers and Pittsburgh are using more complex NFL type language and play books, then I could absolutely see why Savage might be one they like.

Edit: Off The Grid is a fan of Savage and I agree with much of what he says, especially when it comes to pocket presence which I thought was one of his most impressive attributes. Grid gave him a first round grade and I'm not there yet on Savage. But a future franchise guy? He could well be. Grid may end up being right.

 

[manxman2601]

A short piece on Savage



By the by, I love his Snr WR Devin Street, have done all year and Tyler Boyd, his freshman WR is a name to store in the back of your mind. Really stands out when you watch Savage.

And thank you Ian for the ability to embed videos. Brilliant!

 

[Aßßynormal]

Cowboys | Kyle Orton not at minicamp Monday
Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:24:26 -0700
Dallas Cowboys QB Kyle Orton did not show up for the first day of the team's offseason program Monday, April 21.
Comment | Source: Fort Worth Star-Telegram - Clarence E. Hill Jr. | Share: Tweet
Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#ixzz2zavUjKLF


After retiring and/or being released, then, not retiring nor being released, to then, verbally returning to the team, to then, not showing up and, finally, to working in the general vicinity of Jerry Jones ..... makes me confused. Still, I'd like BB to pursue this. Maybe, he is on his way out of Dallas (or maybe not re: J. Jones). Maybe Dallas is afraid of injury. Also, Dallas signed Weeden from Cleveland. Per ESPN: "Weeden's deal is worth $1.23 million over two years and does not include bonus money, according to the source."

What would be the logical trade-able destination for him? Given a choice between a known, adequate quantity and a potentially better but untested player. Put me down for Orton. So, if Mallet is on his way out (I know, big if), this is our guy. Can we pay him? Is he at fault for the confusion and no longer wants to play football or just out of Dallas? I'd ask, should Mallet soon have new laundry.



Extra Info:
Some of these guys could post for JI but some are relevant: http://boards.dallascowboys.com/topic/32978-orton-just-wants-to-hold-a-clipboard/?hl=orton

 

[supafly]

Cowboys | Kyle Orton not at minicamp Monday
Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:24:26 -0700
Dallas Cowboys QB Kyle Orton did not show up for the first day of the team's offseason program Monday, April 21.
Comment | Source: Fort Worth Star-Telegram - Clarence E. Hill Jr. | Share: Tweet
Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#ixzz2zavUjKLF


After retiring and/or being released, then, not retiring nor being released, to then, verbally returning to the team, to then, not showing up and, finally, to working in the general vicinity of Jerry Jones ..... makes me confused. Still, I'd like BB to pursue this. Maybe, he is on his way out of Dallas (or maybe not re: J. Jones). Maybe Dallas is afraid of injury. Also, Dallas signed Weeden from Cleveland. Per ESPN: "Weeden's deal is worth $1.23 million over two years and does not include bonus money, according to the source."

What would be the logical trade-able destination for him? Given a choice between a known, adequate quantity and a potentially better but untested player. Put me down for Orton. So, if Mallet is on his way out (I know, big if), this is our guy. Can we pay him? Is he at fault for the confusion and no longer wants to play football or just out of Dallas? I'd ask, should Mallet soon have new laundry.



Extra Info:
Some of these guys could post for JI but some are relevant: http://boards.dallascowboys.com/topic/32978-orton-just-wants-to-hold-a-clipboard/?hl=orton

My main concern with even considering Orton as a backup would be the fact that he is coming off of a 3.5m AAV pact as the backup to Romo. Why the hell DAL paid that much to their backup QB spot is beyond me, unless there was something injury-wise with Romo a few years ago that they were really freaked out about. Still, it's just one more poor example of cap management from one of the worst teams in the NFL as it pertains to all things financial.

The only time anyone should consider that kind of money for a backup is if their QB situation is up in the air, and they are bringing him in to compete for the starting role. In many situations, those borderline starter/backups are on teams who aren't paying their old starters that much to begin with, which makes it much easier for them to get away with something like that. DAL can't possibly pay Romo the kind of money that he's making AND be okay with paying Orton 3.5m dollars, can they?

On top of that, I would think that we could do alright by paying our new backup or 3rd stringer if Mallett is kept the usual 500-600k, especially since Orton doesn't know our system. The fact that he's a journeyman vet doesn't say much to me personally if he doesn't have a good grasp on our system, and Orton obviously doesn't.

He has to pay DAL back 3m in signing bonus money if he leaves, so my guess is that he'd be retiring anyway, which may make the discussion moot altogether.

 

[supafly]

Will have to do some extensive watching of him this week. Quick take is a mixture of good and bad. He looks like an NFL QB, in part because he plays in a pro-style offense and looks comfortable dropping back from centre. I like his movement in the pocket and his recognition of pressure and he has a very easy arm. There's a lot to like there. But, I'm not convinced that he's very good at recognising what the safeties are doing and his accuracy over the middle looks spotty. He's also not that much more athletic than Brady or Mallett. Good NFL build though. He's intriguing certainly but I'm not convinced yet.

I will say this though. His college career amounts to Rutgers which we know BB is comfortable with and Pittsburgh who run a pro style offense. There was an article I read about BB not liking the receivers coming out of college because of the simplistic offenses and terminologies used in CFB. If Rutgers and Pittsburgh are using more complex NFL type language and play books, then I could absolutely see why Savage might be one they like.

Edit: Off The Grid is a fan of Savage and I agree with much of what he says, especially when it comes to pocket presence which I thought was one of his most impressive attributes. Grid gave him a first round grade and I'm not there yet on Savage. But a future franchise guy? He could well be. Grid may end up being right.

Living here in Pittsburgh, I admit that I didn't really see Savage as a potential 1st rounder, but he's been gaining the attention of just about everyone around the NFL lately. I could definitely see someone taking a shot on him in the 2nd. At worst, he's a 3rd rounder, and may be in the same group as some of the SEC QBs that I think we could end up taking a look at in the 4th.

Like you said though, the pro style aspect may be one of the bigger positives that has some teams closely watching him at the moment.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I would expect with 21st century sports medicine (Dr Gill excepted) that QBs who do not run and get hit early and often would last a year or more longer than their NFL 20th century predecessors with arm strength being the limiting factor.

But Brady is now getting hammered. Forty sacks in 2012. Not fixing the OL is shortening his remaining career.

 

[supafly]

But Brady is now getting hammered. Forty sacks in 2012. Not fixing the OL is shortening his remaining career.

No doubt that we need to fix some of the problems in the middle with Wendell/Connelly, so however Belichick sees fit is fine from this fan's standpoint.
We could use Connelly at center, with Cannon/Kline etc next to him at RG. We could very well draft an IOL in the top 3-4 rounds just as well.
Either way, the situation should be improved in 2014 in my opinion.
The WR/receiving options should also benefit Brady's ability to get rid of the ball a bit quicker, possibly cutting down on 5-10 sacks right there.

 

[AzPatsFan]

My main concern with even considering Orton as a backup would be the fact that he is coming off of a 3.5m AAV pact as the backup to Romo. Why the hell DAL paid that much to their backup QB spot is beyond me, unless there was something injury-wise with Romo a few years ago that they were really freaked out about. Still, it's just one more poor example of cap management from one of the worst teams in the NFL as it pertains to all things financial.

The only time anyone should consider that kind of money for a backup is if their QB situation is up in the air, and they are bringing him in to compete for the starting role. In many situations, those borderline starter/backups are on teams who aren't paying their old starters that much to begin with, which makes it much easier for them to get away with something like that. DAL can't possibly pay Romo the kind of money that he's making AND be okay with paying Orton 3.5m dollars, can they?

On top of that, I would think that we could do alright by paying our new backup or 3rd stringer if Mallett is kept the usual 500-600k, especially since Orton doesn't know our system. The fact that he's a journeyman vet doesn't say much to me personally if he doesn't have a good grasp on our system, and Orton obviously doesn't.

He has to pay DAL back 3m in signing bonus money if he leaves, so my guess is that he'd be retiring anyway, which may make the discussion moot altogether.

There is a refusal to face facts in our fan base. The going rate for a bonifide backup QB is $3 - 5 million per annum today. Unless you are rolling the dice with an unprepared unknown; OR YOU HAVE an experienced rookie backup for cheap money like Mallett.

People here ask what others would offer for Mallett. I think BB turns that completely around and asks what he is willing to accept in a deal.

 

[Danger Zone]

My best guess.

The Patriots trade Mallet for whatever they think they can for him. I'm guessing during the weekend of the Draft.

In essence, I think the Patriots will look for a new Mallet (backup QB) and not a new Brady. This year at least.

As such I think they will draft a rookie QB that they feel offers the best value for the pick, a QB that has fallen quite a bit more than what they've rated him at and in whatever round that might be.

Which is why they seem to be working so hard to get a look at a number of quarterbacks that might in fact fall a round or two and be there as a value pick.

 

[Leemo]

I went for draft a QB in round 5-7 and will not trade Mallet (before the draft).

 

[supafly]

There is a refusal to face facts in our fan base. The going rate for a bonifide backup QB is $3 - 5 million per annum today. Unless you are rolling the dice with an unprepared unknown; OR YOU HAVE an experienced rookie backup for cheap money like Mallett.

With all due respect, AZ--Armchair Quarterback already addressed this issue when he responded to you with a long list of all of the backups in the NFL.

This "3-5 million is the going rate for backups" is not correct. The going rate for the majority of backups is much, much less than that.

What you're quoting with the "3-5 million" rate is a grouping of teams who have no clear cut starter, and who brought in guys like Michael Vick (Geno Smith), Matt Cassel (Christian Ponder) etc to compete for starting positions on opening day. That is entirely different than what you're suggesting the going rate for backup QBs to be. The majority of backups are making less than 1 million dollars.

You're taking a very small sample size of guys that were brought in to be potential starters, and acting as if that's the "norm" for the 32 NFL teams.

 

[AzPatsFan]

With all due respect, AZ--Armchair Quarterback already addressed this issue when he responded to you with a long list of all of the backups in the NFL.

This "3-5 million is the going rate for backups" is not correct. The going rate for the majority of backups is much, much less than that.

What you're quoting with the "3-5 million" rate is a grouping of teams who have no clear cut starter, and who brought in guys like Michael Vick (Geno Smith), Matt Cassel (Christian Ponder) etc to compete for starting positions on opening day. That is entirely different than what you're suggesting the going rate for backup QBs to be. The majority of backups are making less than 1 million dollars.

You're taking a very small sample size of guys that were brought in to be potential starters, and acting as if that's the "norm" for the 32 NFL teams.

BB has never gone into a season without a "qualified" backup QB . One who is capable of managing a game and covering for a Brady injury for at least a game or two. He would never consider an UDFA or a raw 6th round pick as a "qualified" backup for a Super Bowl contender, without some years of seasoning. Even Brady sat for a year. Those type of guys cost money.

Plus there aren't many, or even any, left who have not lined up a job for 2014 already. Just who would you propose, as its you not me, who would move Mallet.

 

[supafly]

BB has never gone into a season without a "qualified" backup QB . One who is capable of managing a game and covering for a Brady injury for at least a game or two. He would never consider an UDFA or a raw 6th round pick as a "qualified" backup for a Super Bowl contender, without some years of seasoning. Even Brady sat for a year. Those type of guys cost money.

Plus there aren't many, or even any, left who have not lined up a job for 2014 already. Just who would you propose, as its you not me, who would move Mallet.

Just to clarify, I don't want to move Ryan Mallett. I see him having importance from knowing our system, so unless someone blew Belichick away with the offer of a 3rd round pick, there's not much reason in my opinion to even consider it.

To answer your question though, whether it's a rookie draft pick or an outsider journeyman, either player would know anything at all about our system--so what difference does it make? Why even think about paying an outsider a few million dollars when he wouldn't know anymore than the cheap rookie would? On top of that, the ability to keep a new rookie QB would be much better for our roster management both now and for the future, as opposed to wasting a spot on a journeyman for just one season. If Belichick decided to trade Mallett, he would most likely be replaced by a rookie draft pick. The only concern I have is that we've only seen one time where we went with a first year rookie backup, and that was Brian Hoyer in 2009. Normally, Belichick prefers to keep a QB for at least a full season before they are prepared to be our clear cut #2 QB.

It all comes down to the thought (for me) that if Belichick were actually considering getting rid of Mallett or really felt as though people were going to offer high draft picks, he'd most likely have either kept 3 QBs last year, or at least had a developmental QB on the practice squad last year to try and have some experience to take over Mallett's role this year. The fact that he did NOT do that tells me that he's probably leaning towards keeping him for his last year. The biggest question is what would happen if another team offered a high draft pick that Belichick just couldn't say no to. That's when it could get interesting in my opinion.

 

[supafly]

BB has never gone into a season without a "qualified" backup QB .

For the record, that's not true either.

In 2009, Brian Hoyer was kept as a rookie to be our QB2.

You'd be right in stating that the majority has seen our backup have at least one full season under his belt though. The main question is what BB would do if some other team actually offered a 3rd round pick, since BB obviously didn't seem to care much about the thought of preparing for this scenario last year by refusing to bring in a developmental QB for the practice squad. It's possible that he just really doesn't see the thought of someone offering a 3rd round pick for Mallett as a reasonable scenario.

I think everyone wants to know what BB would do if another team offered something too good to pass up, and the general consensus is that would be a 3rd round pick or better. I think the odds of that happening are low, but stranger things have certainly happened, and there is the connection to HOU and O'Brien.

 

[AzPatsFan]

For the record, that's not true either.

In 2009, Brian Hoyer was kept as a rookie to be our QB2.

You'd be right in stating that the majority has seen our backup have at least one full season under his belt though. The main question is what BB would do if some other team actually offered a 3rd round pick, since BB obviously didn't seem to care much about the thought of preparing for this scenario last year by refusing to bring in a developmental QB for the practice squad. It's possible that he just really doesn't see the thought of someone offering a 3rd round pick for Mallett as a reasonable scenario.

I think everyone wants to know what BB would do if another team offered something too good to pass up, and the general consensus is that would be a 3rd round pick or better. I think the odds of that happening are low, but stranger things have certainly happened, and there is the connection to HOU and O'Brien.

In 2009 Belechick began his teardown and (Hush!!) rebuilding. Brady was returning from injury, perhaps. I don't think he expected much from that edition, nor did he really believe he had a SB contender.

I don't think it is a question of what other teams offer. It is what kind of great offer he might deign to accept. He really doesn't need the complications, so it had better be a knockout offer.

 

[supafly]

In 2009 Belechick began his teardown and (Hush!!) rebuilding. Brady was returning from injury, perhaps. I don't think he expected much from that edition, nor did he really believe he had a SB contender.

I don't think it is a question of what other teams offer. It is what kind of great offer he might deign to accept. He really doesn't need the complications, so it had better be a knockout offer.

I'm wondering how much it may have had to do with the lack of development from our 3rd round pick at QB (O'Connell) during the previous draft, more than the thought that he wasn't expecting to go very far.

We haven't seen many instances where a guy who was drafted that high was cut the very next year, so I'm assuming that this may have forced Belichick to have to roll the dice a bit with only one backup, who was a rookie to boot. Who knows though?

I agree that it had better be one knockout offer for Mallett, unless Belichick is just ready to parlay the pick (maybe a 4th) into our "new" backup in the likes of drafting AJ McCarron, Mettenberger etc.

 

[meatface]

Is it all possible that they would resign Mallet? It seems really really unlikely to me as he would probbaly want to go somewhere that he can try and win the starting job but if the Patriots like him then maybe they will offer him a deal and continue to groom him as Brady's successor. Seems more likely that he will just walk and the Patriots will draft a guy this season or next to be the new backup.

 

[Sfpat]

Since BB has reportedly turned down offers of a 2nd rd pick for Mallet, why would a 3rd rd offer "blow him away." I'm missing something.

 

[supafly]

Since BB has reportedly turned down offers of a 2nd rd pick for Mallet, why would a 3rd rd offer "blow him away." I'm missing something.

When and where has it been reported that Bill Belichick turned down a 2nd round pick for Ryan Mallett anywhere? Let alone multiple offers, as in plural?

There was a rumor that Belichick was looking for a 2nd round pick in return for Mallett this year, not that he had turned anyone down. Even that rumor is nothing more than...an unsubstantiated rumor.

Even Kirk Cousins, who actually has NFL starting experience and game tape to assess his performance isn't drawing any offers of WAS's reported 2nd round want, so the thought that Ryan Mallett would somehow warrant a 2nd round pick seems kind of far fetched in my opinion.

There's only been one instance where Belichick rolled the dice and brought in an outsider to be our QB2 during his first season here, and that was due to the Kevin O'Connell failure at a high round pick the year before. Obviously, that wasn't BB's plan. It's a complex system and the most important position on the entire team, so thinking that someone is going to come in and be ready to take over for the QB2 in a few months seems like quite a stretch to me. The reality is that he'd probably barely even know 1/2 the playbook in such a small amount of time, and that may be in a best case scenario.

However, if someone offered BB a high enough pick, it's possible he'd be willing to roll the dice for the 2014 season. Only Belichick knows how high that pick would have to be.

 

[supafly]

Is it all possible that they would resign Mallet? It seems really really unlikely to me as he would probbaly want to go somewhere that he can try and win the starting job but if the Patriots like him then maybe they will offer him a deal and continue to groom him as Brady's successor. Seems more likely that he will just walk and the Patriots will draft a guy this season or next to be the new backup.

I think many of us would be okay with that thought, especially since Mallett is familiar with our system and has 3 years of experience as the backup.

The problem, as you pointed out, is that Mallett would likely feel as though he'd have a much better chance of starting and making better money when someone takes him in free agency next spring. It's hard to imagine Belichick offering something competitive enough for keeping Mallett. I think it'd have to be in the 2.5 million dollar range per year, and even then, that doesn't address any competitive aspect that Mallett would push down into his gut from knowing that he's going to continue to sit on the bench.