What may cost us the SB

[Ring 6]

I'd love to see how each of those choices might have turned out under a BB coaching staff aided by the veterans and locker room mind set that has developed since 2000. That said, the State of the messageboard has taken a bit of a down turn, hopefully things will improve once Training Camp stories start rolling in.

Or the converse, how many of those players would not have had the opportunity to do as much as they did, or even make the on the more talented Patriots.
The difference between Williams and Maroney is that Williams had now had one chance to be the lead back in a heavily run oriented offense, while Maroney split his 1st year with Dillon was in the most prolific pass offense ever his 2nd and was injured his third. I dont see how that is 'good' pick vs 'bust'. For the Mills and other late picks of the world, it is very easy to find guy who became a starter somewhere else but never would have seen the field here.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Or the converse, how many of those players would not have had the opportunity to do as much as they did, or even make the on the more talented Patriots.
The difference between Williams and Maroney is that Williams had now had one chance to be the lead back in a heavily run oriented offense, while Maroney split his 1st year with Dillon was in the most prolific pass offense ever his 2nd and was injured his third. I dont see how that is 'good' pick vs 'bust'. For the Mills and other late picks of the world, it is very easy to find guy who became a starter somewhere else but never would have seen the field here.

Now Andy, you know it's just that BB sucks at drafting and we need to bring back Bobby Greer to help him find the right talent in the sixth round.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

3rd round: TE - replaced
4th round: TE - replaced

And in both of these cases, I don't think it's even their fault—God forbid, but how different would this offense have been in 2007 and 2008 without Welker, who basically sucks away a lot of the passes that used to go to TEs?

 

[Deus Irae]

And in both of these cases, I don't think it's even their fault—God forbid, but how different would this offense have been in 2007 and 2008 without Welker, who basically sucks away a lot of the passes that used to go to TEs?

Also, here's a "What if?"

What if Chad Jackson had not gotten injured in his rookie season, and had looked like a quality receiver? Do any of us know that Belichick would still have made the trade for Moss when the team would have had Jackson and Welker already?

 

[upstater1]

A post isn't invalid just because it is poorly worded (or because it uses 5 paragraphs to make a point that once sentence would make).

Take a look at the 2006 draft, the Pats whiffed on nearly every pick.

Maroney? Could've had DeAngelo Williams, Addai, Jones-Drew, or even Lendale Wight
Jackson? Could've had Greg Jennings (I won't include Marshall)
Thomas/Mills? Could've had Owen Daniels.

More dissapointing was passing up one some defensive talent. The 3 picks before Jackson: DeMeco Ryans, Rocky Macintosh and D'Quell Jackson. Thomas Howard and Richard Marshall were also taken during that draft.

So yeah, I'd label it a bust.

Could have had
Could have had
Could have had.

It would take me three drafts to field a team composed of entirely of Pro Bowlers using the could have had method.

It's entirely unrealistic to expect your team to have a successful draft each and every year. We don't even know how some of these players would have fit in here. We have cut players before who have gone on to have Pro Bowl careers. What does that tell you?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Dunno what I'd do without the daily pointless thread from State.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Also, here's a "What if?"

What if Chad Jackson had not gotten injured in his rookie season, and had looked like a quality receiver? Do any of us know that Belichick would still have made the trade for Moss when the team would have had Jackson and Welker already?

If he could have gotten Moss for a fourth, abso-freakin'-lutely. That's simply a no-brainer. I think if Jackson had lived up to expectations/hadn't been injured against the Colts, the Pats might not have have signed Stallworth, though.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Although I'm one of the few that understand where State's coming from, I don't think their 2006 draft class is going to ruin the Pats chances of a super bowl. In fact, as strong as people thought that draft class was, it's turning out to be pretty weak. Also, very few teams are getting a return on their investment of first round draft picks. I said this in another thread, but Chad Jackson was not a bust because he couldn't play, he was a bust because the coaching staff was dumb enough to put a WR they traded 2 picks for, to tackle people on special teams and tore his ACL. There are times when players are never the same after those types of major injuries and Jackson is no exception. You could definitely see the difference during the 2007 season where he could barely make a cut on kick off returns.

Looking back at that draft, teams that scored with their picks (Mario Williams, Davin Joseph, Nick Mangold, Thomas Howard, Greg Jennings, Maurice Jones-Drew, Owen Daniels, Leon Washington, Antoine Bethea, Cortland Finnegen and even Brandon Marshall) got extremely lucky. Unfortunately for the Pats, their kicker may turn out to be their best pick.

While the Pats whiffed on many 2006 picks, they made it up by trading for Moss and Welker. Also, I'd say they are a lot stronger at TE by trading for Alex Smith and signing Chris Baker over Thomas and Mills. But if their is anything that is going to ruin their chances of winning the super bowl, it's the defense not showing up at critical times. I'm talking about those 3rd and 15's, I'm talking about not allowing a fourth string WR to make a circus helmet catch, I'm talking about CB's asking to be the highest paid in the league but dropping INT's thown right to them to seal the super bowl win. This 2009 defense is going to end up one of two ways, it's either going to be like 2002/2005/2008 all over again or the defensive additions pan out and they play like 2003/2004's defense. Although it may take a few weeks, I think this secondary is going to be one of their bests.

 

[AzPatsFan]

State,

At least this post is a creditable thesis, unlike all your others.

The 2006 draft has not been a lucky one, so far. Both high picks have come up injured; and Chad Jackson has turned out to be unable to adapt to a read option WR scheme.

Lack of talent, is usually the reason why teams lose. But over time, the Pats have made more good picks than bad ones under the Belichick regime. Under Grier, the reverse was true. As Parcells said, "I don't care that we gave them lots of picks for a HOF RB; they won't know what to do with them". And he was right...

 

[State]

True 'nuf, one coaching staff's trash can be another's treasure.

FWIW, State himself was on the draft board in 2006. He wanted Carpenter in round 1.

I know, I know. I thought he was Katzenmoyer with a good back.

I also thought Jerry Cooney would beat Larry Holmes.

No more Ohio State LBers for me.

 

[PATS68]

I am going to go with what the thread started out to be in what may cost a SB.

I think Peez calling coverage on 3rd and long ALL the time when his team can not play coverage. IE Jets 3rd and 15 which won them the game. Lack luster blitz packages since he took over.

 

[BionicPatriot]

So one bad draft class is going to cost us? If out of every 8 years a coach was around you'd tell the fans that out of 8 years they'd have one truly bad draft they'd ALL take it. We're going to ***** about him like he sucks over one bad draft? When you have years of solid drafting, bad drafts wont kill you. That's why it hasn't hurt us.

 

[RichSeymour]

I believe another team beating the Pats in the playoffs is the biggest threat to them winning the Super Bowl this year.


My apologies for the sarcasm, but after the 18-1 season, I try to keep my sights on the regular season and game 1.

Best post in the thread

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

LOL at the tags on this thread:

'beating a dead horse, practicesquadcandidate'

 

[spacecrime]

Disagree, people, with facts, not posturing and attitudes.

What you posted was an opinion (that the 2006 draft will or could cost us a superbowl).

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Yours repeatedly is how poorly BB has doen at this or at that. Most of us Pats fans have been pretty pleased at the BB Patriots, especially those who were fans before 2000.

You maroons who need every pick to be outstanding, to have pro bowl players at every postion including backups, simply either don't get it or are actually one of the anti-Pats fans of the world, jealous beyond belief and int tears trying to find something wrong the the Pats efficient machine.

No other team in the BB era has performed as well as the Pats. That is a fact by most stats you can list. Perpetual whining and trying to prove otherwise is silly, suitable only for maroons.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

It sure is fun to read the same post in several different threads.

Was thinking the same thing. How many threads have there been about that draft? and, isnt there a limit as to how many times a poster can argue the same crap over, and over again?

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Now Andy, you know it's just that BB sucks at drafting and we need to bring back Bobby Greer to help him find the right talent in the sixth round.

YEAH, bring back greeerrrrrrrrr.....WHAT????? :wha::violent:......

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I believe the thing that may cost the pats an SB is a non-existent pass rush......they have pieces in place in every other spot........the offense is set, they can run 2 TE sets the way they used to when graham was here (or close to it), and they also have RB depth

the defense.....in the secondary, they have bodden who is looking for a big pay day, so you can bet he will be on his best which will be better than anything the pats have had since ty law......springs is solid.......they've added depth with chung and butler and still have wheatley and wilhite.....the DL is tough and deep.......even inside at LB, they can have a decent rotation with mayo,guyton,bruschi, and lenon........but outside at LB, after thomas, there's alot of prayers looking to be answered.......the have guys with potential in crable and redd, but the experience is horrible with woods and TBC....right now, if they brought colvin back, none of them are likely to beat him out

Ok, I thought the OP was talking about what will cost us the 'upcoming' SB. If thats the case, how can you say its because of a non existent pass rush? You need to move on from last year. Vrabs is gone, AD is healthy, Warren is healthy, and the younglings are in year two. That defense is already faster, and they havent even had TC yet. Saying the D has a crappy pass rush before we've seen them, is almost as bad as saying Bodden will be great, just because he's playing for a contract.

C'mon, lets wait till ATLEAST TC, before we assume anything.

 

[lurker1965]

Oh, since it was thrown out as a quick hit to BB it got ignored.

BB in Cleveland was not as bad as you are led to believe.

Belichick at Browns:

1991 6-10
1992 7-9
1993 7-9
1994 11-5 and 1-1 in playoffs
1995 3-1 before move was announced and 1-11 after it. How many of those 11 losses are on BB and how many on Model?

Not counting 1995 where the owner might have affected it a bit, 31-33 and 1-1 in playoff games. Not bad after the 3-10 Carson Shofner year, but not awesome.

It was not the unmitigated disaster fans of the aging Bernie Kosar would have you believe.

 

[DaBruinz]

Besides the obvious--injuries--it's the piss-poor draft class a couple of years ago.

As usual, Hey Bro is all over it. The 2006 draft class is an almost abject failure (the kicker saves it, Gostkowski) if L. Maroney falls to the third back, as I suspect will happen much of this season.

The sixth-rounder was a head-scratcher since most NFL personnel people considered he lacked the requisite physical skills to even perform on the NFL stage.

But some groupies here go apoplectic when one calls into question BB. Isn't he human, too?

Ask Cleveland.

Belichick is the best because he's the smartest. Others are as passionate. But brains=success. Take a look at the college ranks: Ohio State, Florida, and Alabama. Really smart guys.

Rich Kotite they are not.

But there are always stumbles along the way, whether it's Vince Lombardi, Bart Starr, Tom Brady or, um, I better gird my loins, Bill Belichick.

The 2006 Drarft was bad? HUH? You really should do more homework and understand what you are talking about before posting.

1) Maroney - Fall to the 3rd back? Because Morris has done almost exactly the same as him? Especially if you put into perspective that Morris got to run against defenses like KC, Oakland, and Denver while Maroney had to face Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and such.

2) Jackson - The only pure bust in that draft. But, during his rookie year, he was doing everything asked of him until he tore his ACL late in the play-offs. That ACL injury cost him an entire season. And, for whatever reason, Jackson couldn't earn Brady's trust after that.

3) David Thomas - This training camp is do or die. He's been ok, but nothing spectacular

4) Garrett Mills - We hardly knew you. He was IRed the 1st year. And the Pats tried to get him to the practice squad byt the Vikings weren't having anything of it. OH, did I mention he's a quality player for them

5) Gostkowski - we all know about him.

6) Ryan O'Callaghan had a 2nd round grade at one point. And in his 1st TC, he kept Kaczur on the bench. However, concussions and injuries since then have jeopordized O'Callaghan's career.

7) Jeremy Mincey - the 1st of 3 6th round picks. Going into the draft, he was a 4th round projection. The reason he was cut was because he thought he was going to have a year to learn the Patriots system and so he didn't try his hardest. He learned the hard way. Since then, he's been on the Jaguars.

8) Dan Stevenson - Spent time on the practice squad. Was cut and signed with Miami. At 6'5 and 300 lbs, he seemed to fit what BB was looking for in a G/C.

9) LeKevan Smith - Projected as a 4th rounder. Has been a good player for the Pats, seeing time on special teams and really starting to produce in the DE rotation.

10) Willie Andrews - For 3 years, he was one of the best special teams players the Pats had. It was only him running afoul of the law that cost him his space on the Patriots.

The ONLY one who might have "lacked the requisite skills to perform on the NFL stage" is Stevenson. But even he had a 7th/UDFA rating.

So, where the hell do you get your bogus information from. Who are all these "NFL PERSONNEL" who didn't think that one of Smith, Stevenson, or Mincey had what it took to play in the NFL?

Everyone admits that BB is human. But its the ignorance of people like you and Hey Bro that acts like BB is some dumb f**K 1st year coach who doesn't know wtf he is doing.