PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

What if... moving up for Carpenter


Status
Not open for further replies.
VJCPatriot said:
...but it is WELL documented that BB rarely takes that position high. He prefers to trains rookies slowly into the position. Because the Pats system uses linebackers in such a complex and sophisticated way it is virtually impossible for a rookie LB to see much field time.

What a load of crap. Before last year, people like you were posting that BB would never take an OG that high. It is well documented that BB was looking to trade up in 2003 for Jonathan Vilma.

BB doesn't have rules like that. The reason he hasn't drafted a LB that high is because the LBs in the past few years have been crap, and the best of them dont fit our LB profile.

VJCPatriot said:
A rookie RB on the other hand can contribute immediately, possibly the easiest position to impact the game coming in first year.

But before this year, he had never drafted a RB that high, either.

Listen, drafting a RB early because he can contribute right away is great, but it still doesn't solve our LB problem. Waiting until the later rounds to draft LBs is not much of a help, because it'll take those players just as long or longer. In the end, the best talent is going to come off the board in the first round. If you want a starting LB, now or in the future, the best place to find it is early.

VJCPatriot said:
And the Pats yawning gulf of a need at WR is well documented with recent departures of:
David Givens
David Terrell
Tim Dwight
PK Sam
Andre Davis
combined with the previous departure of Patten
left the Pats depth chart at:
Branch
Brown
BJ
Bam Childress

So, the loss of Terrell, Dwight, Sam and Davis are keeping you up at night? Not me. JAGs, the whole lot of them. Losing Givens was tough, but I think Caldwell is a fair replacement.

What keeps me up at night is the retirement of Ted Johnson, Roman Phifer, and Chad Brown, plus the loss of Willie McGinest and Matt Chatham.

For anyone keeping track, those losses have been offset by the signing of Monty Beisel and the draft of Ryan Claridge in the 5th and Jeremy Mincey in the 6th and a bunch of minimum salary JAGs, plus a few undrafted free agent rookies.

VJCPatriot said:
And you consider our draft a "tragedy" because we didn't happen to get the LB you coveted? A linebacker that MIGHT have seen 15-30 defensive snaps this year as an understudy? There's other positions that this football team needed to fill you know...

We won the SB with Troy Brown and David Patten (who was signed off the street) in 2001, and Jermaine Wiggins and Rod Ruttledge rounding out the receiving corp. There was no depth. The LBs at the time were McGinest, Vrabel, Phifer outside, Cox, Bruschi and Johnson inside-- all veterans and all starting quality.

By comparison, Branch and Caldwell, with Watson and Graham put our 2001 receiving corp to shame. At LB we are looking at Vrabel, Colvin and Banta-Cain outside, and Bruschi, Beisel and Claridge inside.

Think about it a little, and tell me again which area of the team has seen the most significant erosion of talent.
 
What's this about Carpenter not being "mentally ready"?

All I heard from him was that he was very smart and was overshadowed by AJ Hawk


By Jerome Solomon, Globe Staff | April 25, 2006


Word is, Ohio State linebacker Bobby Carpenter is a Bill Belichick kind of guy.

Truth is, he is any football coach's kind of guy.

Ask Rob Carpenter. High school football coach. Father.

''People always ask me about a special play or game that stands out in memory, but I don't have one, not in football, anyway," said Carpenter, head coach at Lancaster (Ohio) High School. ''His big plays -- the sacks, the interceptions, the hits -- that's all fine and good, but really, I like watching him every play. Every play he's in a football position. Ready to play.

''And he does it with a lot of enthusiasm, and that's always something that's been contagious with teammates. He was the emotional leader on his junior high and high school teams, and the emotional leader at Ohio State.

''I like the way he approaches football in a workmanlike manner. He buckles it up every play. Coaches love to see that in a player."

It doesn't hurt that Bobby Carpenter's emotional leadership comes in a 6-foot-2 1/2-inch, 256-pound frame. Or that, like Belichick, he took to breaking down film at an early age.

After letting him be involved in swimming (his mother Susie is a swim coach), soccer, track, and basketball -- he hit the game-winning basket at the buzzer to win a junior high championship and an AAU title -- Rob Carpenter didn't allow Bobby to don shoulder pads in the seventh grade.

A former NFL player, the elder Carpenter understood the value of study in sport. He would tape all of his children's games, for the grandparents' enjoyment and instruction. When Bobby Carpenter watched himself on tape, he immediately began to critique his play, and soon was analyzing teammates and opponents.

''He took right to it," Rob Carpenter said.

At that time, Bobby was playing quarterback. When he arrived at Ohio State as a linebacker, he proved just as studious in and out of the classroom.

''The thing about Bobby, he's so bright," Ohio State coach Jim Tressel said last week on Sirius NFL Radio. ''He watched his dad coach all that time. He's a very intelligent kid.

''He played defensive end for us. He can play [strongside linebacker]. He can play [middle linebacker]. He's just so bright. And great ball skills. We even moved him to tight end a little bit when we had some injuries and he caught balls.

''He brings a lot to the table and I think he's going to surprise some people in the NFL because [he's] a little bit in the shadow of A.J. [Hawk] from collegiate hype, but a special player."

As you might imagine, the radio show hosts immediately thought of the Patriots' Mike Vrabel, a former Ohio State linebacker who has performed all of those duties for Belichick in New England.

Like Vrabel, Carpenter would prefer to play outside, but he has the ability to play inside and can play out of a three-point stance on the edge in third-down situations.
Article Tools


''He's a guy who does a lot of things," Bobby Carpenter said of Vrabel. ''I tried to kind of pattern what I did this year off of him. The coaches put me in a situation to rush the passer a lot. He's someone in the offseason who I really talked to. He's the all-time sack leader at Ohio State, so I figured he knew something about rushing the passer a little bit. So I learned some from him."

That is fertilizer to the chitchat that Carpenter could end up with the Patriots. He is projected to be a late first-round or early second-round pick, with many feeling he has made up whatever slip in rating he suffered when a broken fibula kept him from playing in the Senior Bowl or working out at the NFL combine.

''You know, it's interesting. The Patriots have spent a lot of time here," Tressel said. ''I think they like him a lot. I think they like [receiver] Santonio Holmes. I think they like
Nick Mangold. Obviously everyone loves A.J. Hawk, but he'll be long gone when they draft.

''But the Patriots, heck, they've had probably four or five or six different coaches here along, of course, with their personnel department. I think Bobby would be a good fit in their scheme."

The Patriots won't show their hand as to what they will do with the 21st pick of the first round, but clearly they have some interest in Carpenter, who believes he is a good fit for a 3-4 defense.

''Seeing a lot of teams go to the 3-4, I think, helps me," he said. ''It's another linebacker that they're going to need. And I guess, looking around, it's tough to find a whole lot of guys who have the size and weight to play outside linebacker in the 3-4.

''You have to be a bigger, physical guy with good speed. That's something that's kind of a commodity in today's game. I think that's something I can bring to the table."

Rob Carpenter has known Belichick for 25 years. After being drafted by the Houston Oilers in 1977 and playing fullback in a backfield that featured Earl Campbell, he was traded to the Giants in 1981, and spent four years with New York.

Belichick, Dallas coach Bill Parcells, and Cleveland coach Romeo Crennel were all there at that time.

''They were three of the hardest-working guys, on and off the field, and all of them understood the importance of player relations and making sure players were prepared," Carpenter said. ''That's what I took from them."

And it is something he used in his coaching to help his son become a player. Having a willing pupil made it easier.

''I'm a teacher, too," Carpenter said. ''Every teacher has a message, and some kids just don't respond. And then there are some that are always in the front row, watching you, paying attention, and they don't ever have a bad day. Bobby's one of those kinds of kids."

While most top draft prospects leave school to spend the spring preparing for the draft, Carpenter, a business economics major, continues to work on his degree. He has been working out early in the morning, but is otherwise bunkered in the library, as he has a term paper due Thursday.

Yet he took time out last weekend to go watch his younger brother Jonathan's spring game at the University of Cincinnati, and he'll probably make the 45-minute drive home to check out another younger brother's track meet tomorrow night.

It may be an exciting time in his life, but Carpenter doesn't often break his routine.

''He's a creature of habit," Rob Carpenter said. ''Everything's about routine to him. He sets goals and works toward them and he doesn't get distracted easily.

''Footballwise, he is already getting ready for the first minicamp with whomever drafts him. He's taking care of what he can control."

Coaches like that.
=======================================================

Hawk and Carpenter represent everything an NFL team could want in a linebacker. They have the requisite size, speed, instincts and versatility that have them projected as first-round selections in what many personnel men have called the deepest linebacker group in two decades.

"It's unbelievable that both these guys come out of the same program," ESPN analyst and former Dolphins general manager Rick Spielman says. "They're both throwback-type players."
========================================================​
 
"A.J.'s just a natural," says former Ohio State and NFL linebacker Chris Spielman, now an ESPN college analyst. "He has great instincts. He doesn't play in a box. All the linebackers I've seen who have had decent NFL careers, they have vision. A.J. has great vision."

Carpenter shares that vision.

Rob Carpenter always considered himself an overachiever, and his son followed his father's footprints, watching video of himself to seek new ways to improve from the time he was a competitive swimmer coached by his mom, Susie, in the second grade.

"I was surprised how many people knew my father at the combine this past week," Carpenter says. "My dad always told me he was an average player who worked really hard. He always told me you might not be the biggest guy, but try to work harder and be the toughest guy on the field. I've always tried to do those things to maximize my potential."

Carpenter had eight sacks his senior season when he embraced his new role as a third-down edge rusher, a role similar to the one former Buckeye Mike Vrabel has excelled in with the three-time Super Bowl champion Patriots.

"What's fortunate at Ohio State is that guys like Mike Vrabel come back in the offseason and work out with us," Carpenter says. "

With more teams than ever looking for 3-4 edge rushers who can pressure the quarterback, Carpenter's timing is excellent considering the success of players such as Merriman and Cowboys rookie linebacker DeMarcus Ware.

"Obviously, Mike Vrabel is someone I've looked at and tried to emulate ... (and) Joey Porter, those guys have extremely complete games; they're both extremely talented and tough players," Carpenter says. "It's tough to say I'm on the same plane as them as players. But those are two guys whose game I try to emulate."

Carpenter has been overshadowed to some degree by Hawk.

"If Bobby Carpenter had been at one spot during his career, he might have had more production," Browns general manager Phil Savage says. "He's not quite as productive as A.J., but when they walk into a room together, you're more impressed with Carpenter in terms of the way he looks.


"Carpenter has all the size, speed and qualities we're looking for. He's not quite as instinctive as A.J., but they move those guys around a lot. That's suited A.J. a little better than Bobby. But I would think both of them are versatile enough that they fit either a 3-4 or a 4-3 scheme."

Since the Patriots and Steelers have won Super Bowls on the strength of versatile linebacking corps, two playmakers from this year's "Linebacker U" figure to go in the first round.
===================================================

Hopefully he will be a bust for the Cowgirls and Belichick will pick him up in three years. :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:
 
im happy with Mahoney.
 
rookBoston said:
By comparison, Branch and Caldwell, with Watson and Graham put our 2001 receiving corp to shame. At LB we are looking at Vrabel, Colvin and Banta-Cain outside, and Bruschi, Beisel and Claridge inside.

Lots of good points here, but remember, Claridge is gone.
 
Keegs said:
im happy with Mahoney.

Does Maroney look Irish to you?
 
shakadave said:
Lots of good points here, but remember, Claridge is gone.

This was written in May. ;)
 
The Pats look to be drafting at 32 this yea ,I hope. By that time Poluzny will be long gone and likely so will the prime DE/LB conversion candidates like last years Ware and Merriman.

I suspect that BB will adapt. Would he trade a first for a LB in his prime?

Takeo Spikes is coming back from an Achilles tendon injury. If he produces this season, what would the Pats trade to get a guy like him?

Not that he is the only guy, but I mean a a guy of that type. I'm talking about an established LB star, who meets the criterion of bering a good player, not a hot dog, or a free lancer, a disciplined player who cna play in the scheme, and a "Patriots type" guy?

Do you think BB would give up a first and change for a say 250# 28 year old five year starter, and an established star??

Its not like there will be any great requirements elsewhere. Certainly there will be a need for drafting Troy's replacement, but he doesn't have to be a #1 type, merely good. So you could use a 2 or 3 on him and still get a good receiver.

Other than that what is the big need?

RBs check; OLs check; TEs check; DLs check; Safeties check; CBs always looking but check; QBs could use another early second day flyer but check.

There is a need for an ILB starter, and an OLB starter, although the pipeline might be begininng to produce if TBC, Mincey and/or Woods are getting better...

Opinions, guys?
 
Actually, I do see BB doing something of that sort to trade for a starting caliber LB. Of course, it'd make more sense to draft a stud LB out of college, but I don't think our current situation will last much longer than 2-3 more seasons. Tedy and Vrabel probably won't stick around for more than 3 seasons, taking their age into account. It'd be a quicker fix to trade for one, and then drafting a stud LB 2 seasons from now to groom.

just my opinion.
 
I never liked Carpenter. I still don't like Carpenter. I'm very happy with Maroney, and now that he's ours, I refer you to a certain song called "Love the one you're with." It's excellent advice, in football and in life.
 
nice Stills reference pony.

I in fact did like Carp...was very high on him...still am...he'll be a very productive player in this league for a long time.

And not to diss him, but after what we've seen from Maroney to this point I don't understand this debate.

I'm still in disbelief about the way this guy runs...Bush may have been the better college back, but if you gave me a choice right now between either I honestly might take Maroney.
 
the taildragger said:
nice Stills reference pony.


I'm still in disbelief about the way this guy runs...Bush may have been the better college back, but if you gave me a choice right now between either I honestly might take Maroney.

True that.

Maroney was a VERY good runner facing some of the toughest run Ds in football..he's got consistency written all over him..he will be a star RB who will be very productive for us.

Bush had many more 2 yard runs than he did 70 yard runs..he will not impose his will on NFL Ds like he did in college.

I have a feeling he will get hit really good by Roy Williams tommorrow and won't get back up the same..he has faced cupcake Ds so far and has not begun to taste the pain that real defenses like New England, Dallas, Jacksonville, and others can bring to him
 
RookBoston, as I just brought up in another thread I started, many people were upset that we took Graham over Clinton Portis. Looking back, Portis would have given us much more immediate help that it turned out we needed with Antowain Smith coming back down to earth.

However, we have two Super Bowl rings since then and now we have Maroney.

No question that LB is an area that needs to be addressed going into the future. I don't think though that we win or lose a Super Bowl this season because of Bobby Carpenter. You can say the same thing about Maroney.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not disappointed we have Maroney over Carpenter. That being said, I wouldn't be disappointed to have Carpenter over Maroney. They'll both be good football players.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/25: News and Notes
Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
Back
Top