What I'd like to see happen on draft day......

[fester]

I'm not so sure that teams will be burning up the phone lines with the JEST for Matt Ryan. Think about it for a second: you normally trade up if you want to make sure you get the player you want. That said, you don't want to bid against yourself, by trading up higher than necessary. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Ryan falls past #5.

If the JEST are willing to shop #6, then they're almost certainly not in the market for Ryan's services--which means that if you trade with them, you're overpaying, in draft picks, in contract $, or both. That's because the next credible threat to draft Ryan is Baltimore; New England will not be taking a QB at #7.

But assuming the team in question is not Baltimore, then team X may not be bidding against themselves if they try to go to #6 to grab Ryan as they are bidding against the possibility that Baltimore is bidding to move up to grab Ryan as a pre-emptive move against Team X trading for the right to draft Ryan. Baltimore may be trying to trade to #6 if they know that they can't work out a deal with New England as they believe New England has its heart set on Player K who they believe will be gone at any other pick point, including Baltimore if Baltimore is at #7.

Auctions get a whole lot more complicated and strategic as soon as multiple players are introduced into the calculas.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Wow, this thread is fun.

B2M : I have to agree with other posters, Seymour and Warren as 4-3 DE's puts them at a less than optimal position. Typical 4-3 DE is big and FAST. Big Sey and Warren are great, GREAT, at what they do. Could they play 4-3 DE? Probably. But they would be destined to be bull rush pass rushers, and one trick ponies can be killed by a decent OT. They do not possess the speed needed by a pass rushing DE. However, it would be a damn good run-stuffing D-Line.

Converting Seymour/ Warren to DE in a 4-3 would make the Pats currently lackluster pass-rush a non-existent one.

Other Topic for all posters : Teams will not hesitate to trade with the Jets due to spite. You gotta do what is best for your team, and if someone thinks Ryan at 6 is a a good deal for them, hello Tannenbaum. That being said, Ryan at 7 is more likely because I tend to think teams will see that he won't go until 8, unless they trade to 7 to leapfrog the Ravens.

I wouldn't be so quick to pigeon hole a guy like Seymour into a DT spot on a 4-3. For one thing, we haven't seen Richard in a 4-3 DE role and to actually see him on the edge one on one against an LT, I like that matchup. Is he a Dwight Freeney coming off the 4-3 edge, no he's not. But think of what this DLine could be, it would be a better version of the huge run stuffing Jacksonville DLine with 2 dominant interior DT's in Vince and Dorsey ala Stroud and Henderson. This pass rush would be almost a carbon copy of the Jags where they rely heavily on inside pressure from a dominating pair of penetrating DT's which is exactly what Vince and Dorsey would be, except at an even higher level than Stroud and Henderson. The focus would be the line as whole and how that line as a whole generates a tremendous pass rush, not just focusing on one quicker, smaller outside DE in a 4-3. When Vince played at the U, people forget how great of a pass rusher he was down there as a 1-gap interior DT, he was constantly in the backfield pressuring the QB and loading up on sacks. Look if we could trot out a DLine of (Warren, Dorsey, Wilfork and Seymour) and spot the DE's with Jarvis Green here and there, I'm not going to stomp my feet and cry over that, believe me, running on that DLine would be all but impossible and you would be surprised at the kind of pressure they could generate as a unit.

 

[bradmahn]

I wouldn't be so quick to pigeon hole a guy like Seymour into a DT spot on a 4-3. For one thing, we haven't seen Richard in a 4-3 DE role and to actually see him on the edge one on one against an LT, I like that matchup. Is he a Dwight Freeney coming off the 4-3 edge, no he's not. But think of what this DLine could be, it would be a better version of the huge run stuffing Jacksonville DLine with 2 dominant interior DT's in Vince and Dorsey ala Stroud and Henderson. This pass rush would be almost a carbon copy of the Jags where they rely heavily on inside pressure from a dominating pair of penetrating DT's which is exactly what Vince and Dorsey would be, except at an even higher level than Stroud and Henderson. The focus would be the line as whole and how that line as a whole generates a tremendous pass rush, not just focusing on one quicker, smaller outside DE in a 4-3. When Vince played at the U, people forget how great of a pass rusher he was down there as a 1-gap interior DT, he was constantly in the backfield pressuring the QB and loading up on sacks. Look if we could trot out a DLine of (Warren, Dorsey, Wilfork and Seymour) and spot the DE's with Jarvis Green here and there, I'm not going to stomp my feet and cry over that, believe me, running on that DLine would be all but impossible and you would be surprised at the kind of pressure they could generate as a unit.

While I tend to agree with you in that I believe Seymour and Warren are versatile enough to play on the outside effectively, and that Green and a combination of Vrabel and Thomas as passing down DEs would be a very good defensive line, the Patriots would have to have a phenomenal draft of LBs in order for this scenario to be even remotely feasible. I think Thomas can play any LB position in any scheme, he is that versatile, but that still leaves two of three spots that would need to be addressed while relegating Vrabel to a situational pass rush role and all but ensuring Bruschi's departure from the team. Sure, the defensive line would be great, but that's not the only thing that would be making a drastic change if they were to switch to a 4-3, and at this point there would be too much reliance on draft picks to come in and be automatic starters for the Patriots to make a permanent switch to the 4-3 in 2008.

All in all, I don't think it's a possibility for the Patriots to completely switch their base defense in one offseason.

By the way, neither John Henderson nor Marcus Stroud are shorter than 6'6" (6'7" and 6'6", respectively). Wilfork and Dorsey are both 6'2", so it's a little shortsighted to assume they'd be as dominant in the middle as a huge part of Stroud's and Henderson's dominance is/was their ability to collapse the pocket and bat down balls.

 

[BadMoFo]

This is the best argument ever. You're clueless. No, you're clueless.

Ladies, you're both clueless.