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What I'd like to see happen on draft day......

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by DaBruinz, Mar 18, 2008.

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  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Matt Ryan falls to #7. Dorsey is there also.

    The Pats have been on the phone with Chicago. They get off the phone with Chicago and the Ravens call. Both teams want Ryan. Then Denver calls saying they want to trade up for Dorsey.

    The Pats pull off the trade with the Ravens picking up a 2nd round in 2009. Then the Pats trade with the Broncos, picking up the Broncos 1st and 2nd round in 2008.

    OR...

    Ryan and McFadden fall to the Pats. The Pats dupe the Ravens into moving up and get the Pats a 2nd in 2009 and then trade the #8 pick for Dallas 2 1st rounders and Bobby Carpenter so they can take McFadden.

    In either case, the Pats gain a lot of immediate help and continue future building as well.
  2. mike100915

    mike100915 Rookie

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    I'd like to see some how Chris Long fall to us and we scoop him up. I would be ecstatic if he some how fell. More then likely this will not happen. I just feel that Chris Long is exactly what a Patriot is. This guy can probably play 7 positions for us. He'd give us everything we'd need. Gholston may have a better career, but I prefer Chris Long. He'll be the air apparent to Mike Vrabel.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2008
  3. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    That would be an amazing scenario, like cleaning up at poker. One small reservation is that I actually think Ryan will be a good QB, and might prefer he go to an NFC team instead of the Ravens- but for additional draft picks I'd bite the bullet on that for sure.

    As far as C. Long and Gholston... I'll take Long all day. His football character is much better than Gholston's. Football character*athleticism= production. The only scenario in which I would trade up is for Long at #5.
  4. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    Ive actually wondered a bit if NE would be crazy or bold enough to actually move up to as high as 4 or 5 if Chris Long happens to fall that far. We become accustomed to watching the brass move picks down or turn them into future #1s, but weve never really seen as strong a move as doing something like move from 7 to say 4 with Oakland. Id only see this happening if somehow Miami takes Ryan 1st, St Louis nabs Jake Long, and Atlanta more than likely takes Dorsey, best case scenario. But with Oakland picking 4th, they could either go Long, Gholston or McFadden. And considering that Long's dad is a former Raiders legend, Id think Al Davis would almost be compelled to take Chris Long if he's sitting there at 4. unless of course, someone were to offer a trade into their slot. I suppose the same trade scenario could exist for move up to the 5 spot with KC for either Gholston or Long if NE deems either player really worth the money. Lots of very interesting possibilities. But how crazy would it be to actually see the team move UP to snag one of these guys?
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2008
  5. ctpatsfan77

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    It would be a clear indication of two simple facts: (1) Belioli thought so highly of that player's potential value to the team, relative to the other players on his draft board AND to other trade scenarios, that they felt that moving up like that was the best possible move, and, of course, (2) they found a willing trade partner.
  6. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    either one of those scenarios sound great to me
  7. Patsmaniac

    Patsmaniac Rookie

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    I dont understand why everyone on this site wants a trade with Dallas to include Bobby Carpentter. Am i missing something. what the hell has he ever shown? How about a trade that included Spencer or Ware...

    I dont get it
  8. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Your comments about Spencer or Ware show exactly why you don't get it. You aren't being realistic in your expectations.

    People mention Carpenter because, right now, he's a spare part for the Cowboys and has less value in a trade. So he'd be easier to come by. The Cowboys aren't about to trade Ware or Spencer.

    Carpenter has shown to be a very good special teamer and shown some flashes at ILB. He's just not been able to win the starting spot from Akin Ayodele. Given the chance and coaching here with the Pats, he could do that.
  9. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    I would like to see Ryan and McFadden to fall for trade bait and Long, Long, Gholston to fall as potential selections.
  10. BradyToMoss

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    For Ryan to fall to 7, that would mean McTrouble goes #3 or #4 and Clady goes #5 overall to the Chiefs or the Panthers (via a trade up w/KC) and the Chiefs grab their prize LT in Otah at #13 and the Panthers get their man in Clady. That scenario could in fact happen. A Clady at #5 would give this scenario some legs (CLong, Big Blue Long, McTrouble, Gholston, Clady all going top 5, would leave the Jets with a tough, tough decision on whether to take Dorsey or deal down).

    If Dorsey falls to #6, I guarantee you that Eric the Rat works out a major, major blockbuster deal to the team who covets Matty Heisman. Eric the Rat would stick it to us again and take away our possible trade scenario for Ryan, I can honestly see the draft playing out like this. What does this mean for us, well we could do what we did before and draft the highest value / lesser need player in Dorsey, ala Big Vince, or we could look to deal down to a team wanting Dorsey, yet in my eyes, I see this as being unlikely. The only "trade up" guy in my eyes is Matt Ryan, if Dorsey falls to us at 7, there will be red flags all over the place and teams will not deal up for him, that is my opinion. So if things were to play out like this, a very, very likely situation and you're BB, what do you do? Grab Dorsey as Vince insurance and go more to a 4-3, or do you bypass him and grab a McKelvin or DRC?

    Dorsey at #7 kind of scares me, I just don't think teams will be climbing over each other for the telephone if Big Glenn is sitting there at #7, like some people might think they will. The Pats could really be in a tough scenario.
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  11. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Sorry, but all it would mean is that the unexpected happened. Like Otah getting taken 5th. Or like when Whitner was drafted early by the Bills.



    You are assuming that The Rat and Tannenbaum have any leverage for trading on draft day. I believe that the only reason that the Jenkins deal went down is that the Panthers were unhappy with him (weight management isn't his strong suit). I don't believe that Mangini and Tannenbaum are on a lot of people's lists in terms of trading. Particularly with the whole spygate thing.

    As for grabbing Dorsey, he'd be another DE in the 3-4 system. The Pats already have 5 DEs, 3 of which are Legit starters. Dorsey is NOT Vince Insurance and chaning over to the 3-4 would require the entire LB corps to be replaced. It would also put 2 of Seymour, Warren, Wilfork and Green on the bench all the time. That weakens this team drastically.

    Also, I doubt that the Rat and Tannenbaum can afford to trade down. They are not well liked by their fans and there were plenty of rumblings at the end of the year for Mangini to be replaced.
  12. BradyToMoss

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    You are assuming that The Rat and Tannenbaum have any leverage for trading on draft day. I believe that the only reason that the Jenkins deal went down is that the Panthers were unhappy with him (weight management isn't his strong suit). I don't believe that Mangini and Tannenbaum are on a lot of people's lists in terms of trading. Particularly with the whole spygate thing.

    Really? then why did the Saints just deal with them and why is Mike Shanahan one passed physical away from making a deal for DRob ??? Look if Matt Ryan falls to the Jets at #6, believe me, that Jet phone is going to light up like Times Square. Like I said, Matt Ryan falling to the Jets is the last thing I want to see happen, because I can see Eric the giant, filthy, stinking rat that he is sticking it to us once again with a trade down to Chicago or even to the Ravens, doing this all right before we pick.

    As for grabbing Dorsey, he'd be another DE in the 3-4 system. The Pats already have 5 DEs, 3 of which are Legit starters. Dorsey is NOT Vince Insurance and chaning over to the 3-4 would require the entire LB corps to be replaced. It would also put 2 of Seymour, Warren, Wilfork and Green on the bench all the time. That weakens this team drastically.

    Dorsey projects at an interior DT in a 4-3 defense, I could see him and Vince as the interior DT's. This probably won't happen, but BB has played the 4-3 at times with Jarvis and if he ended up with Big Glenn in his lap, I wouldn't put it past him to take him simply because his value is off the charts at the #7 pick and don't fool yourself, Big Vince and his agent are being quite MUM on his contract situation, Big V is looking to hit paydirt in FA and Dorsey is in fact Big Vince insurance.
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  13. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Do you actually read what is said before you reply? Or do you just reply to one little section and think you know what you are talking about?

    This team switching to a 4-3 does NOT help this team. Why? Because it forces Vrabel and Thomas to be the Defensive ends and puts two of Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, and Green on the bench full time. That number would be 3 if you included Dorsey. It would also require a full revamping of the Linebacking corps because they don't have a legit MLB. With Vrabel and Thomas moving up to DE, they wouldn't have the proper types of OLBs either.

    As for Wilfork and his agent, what do you know? How do you know there have even been attempts at discussions? Vince is signed THROUGH the 2009 season. Meaning that the Patriots don't have to try and Sign him this year. They also don't have the cap space to try and sign him this year. They WILL have the cap space to try and sign him in 2009 though.

    Your fooling yourself if you think that Dorsey, who is NOT a 3-4 NT in any way, shape or form, is insurance for Wilfork leaving after the 2009 season. In fact, thinking that Dorsey would be Wilfork insurance pretty much says you don't know what you are talking about and really don't have much of a concept of how this team is built. It also sayss that you don't understand how changing schemes from a 3-4 to a 4-3 would affect this team. Advocating a switch to the 3-4 is saying that the Patriots should put one of their top 7 players on the bench as well as put as a 1st round pick since I don't see Dorsey being better than Wilfork, Warren or Seymour.
  14. ctpatsfan77

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    I'm not so sure that teams will be burning up the phone lines with the JEST for Matt Ryan. Think about it for a second: you normally trade up if you want to make sure you get the player you want. That said, you don't want to bid against yourself, by trading up higher than necessary. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Ryan falls past #5.

    If the JEST are willing to shop #6, then they're almost certainly not in the market for Ryan's services--which means that if you trade with them, you're overpaying, in draft picks, in contract $, or both. That's because the next credible threat to draft Ryan is Baltimore; New England will not be taking a QB at #7.
  15. BradyToMoss

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    This team switching to a 4-3 does NOT help this team. Why? Because it forces Vrabel and Thomas to be the Defensive ends and puts two of Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, and Green on the bench full time. That number would be 3 if you included Dorsey. It would also require a full revamping of the Linebacking corps because they don't have a legit MLB. With Vrabel and Thomas moving up to DE, they wouldn't have the proper types of OLBs either.

    What in the world are you talking about ?? Are you clueless ??

    Switching to a 4-3 would give us a D-line of (Warren and Seymour at DE's) and (Dorsey and Big Vince at DT's). That equates to the best, the best d-line in football. I will spell is out for you, because for some reason, you're making the idiotic assumption that Vrabel or AT would have to play a down DE spot and that's not the case at all "Mr. Football", they would actually become stand up OLB's in the 4-3 (LIKE THEY ARE NOW). Get a clue please. Jarvis would fall back to his better role, which is of a role player coming off the bench, a guy who could spell and would spell anyone during the course of a game and spot fill for injuries.

    Let me fill you in on something. Wilfork played DT in a 4-3 at the "U" and he was UNSTOPPABLE in that down interior DT role, the same for Glenn, they are considered both interior DT's. The Pats had to convert Vince to a nose tackle, he was drafted as a DT. If it came to it, they would do the same thing with Dorsey as they did with Vince if they had too.
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Actually, its you who are the absolutely CLUELESS person and should just stop posting now. Your following statements PROVE just how ignorant you are.

    WRONG. Warren and Seymour are WAY TOO BIG to play DE in the 4-3. Typical 4-3 DEs are in the 270 range. Seymour and Warren are in the 310 range. Both of them would be DTs in a 4-3. NOT Defensive Ends.

    No it doesn't. It equates to you not knowing what you are talking about. PERIOD. I suggest you go learn about the differences between the 3-4 and the 4-3 because its clear you don't understand them.


    No, they wouldn't. You really don't know what you are talking about. Seriously, you are the clueless one here and its pretty sad. Vrable and Thomas would be DEs in a 4-3 set-up. NOT OLBs. OLBs in the 4-3 aren't nearly as big as Thomas.


    Unlike YOU, I have a clue and clearly have a better understanding of the differences between the 4-3 and the 3-4. In the 4-3, the Pressure is supposed to come from the defensive line. That requires faster DEs who can get around the tackles. In the 3-4, the Defensive line is supposed to tie up the O-line to allow a linebacker to get in to make the play. The systems are completely different.


    Listen. I KNOW what I am talking about. No where have I said that Wilfork wouldn't be a DT in the 4-3. What I have said, if you actually had your head out of your arse and you actually knew what you were talking about, is that you'd end up with 3 of Wilfork, Warren, Seymour, Dorsey and Green on the Bench at any one time in the 4-3 because they are ALL DTs in the 4-3. They are NOT DEs in the 4-3. So, please stop with your ignorance.

    Wilfork was drafted as a NT. Not a DT. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Wilfork is also about 40 lbs heavier than Dorsey has ever played at. So, NO, they couldn't do the same with Dorsey because Dorsey doesn't have the weight behind him. Also, Dorsey, if you'd actually bothered to do any research, would be a DE in the 3-4.
  17. thechris

    thechris Rookie

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    Whats with all the nicknames?
  18. BradyToMoss

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    "WRONG. Warren and Seymour are WAY TOO BIG to play DE in the 4-3. Typical 4-3 DEs are in the 270 range. Seymour and Warren are in the 310 range. Both of them would be DTs in a 4-3. NOT Defensive Ends."

    Hey Bozo, first of all, you sound like you're about 15 years old. You can start by growing up, then you can start by doing your homework as to whether or not you think Richard Seymour can't play DE in a 4-3. Here's some Wiki facts for you Rocket Scientist: Not that I have to wiki Richard to prove to myself that he could be a great DE in 4-3, but just to prove it to you:

    "Seymour was drafted by the Patriots in the first round (sixth overall) of the 2001 NFL Draft. He was listed in 2004 as being 6 feet 6 inches tall and weighing 310 pounds. He has been selected to five NFL Pro Bowls and three AP all-pro teams. His hallmark is his versatility, as he is capable of playing 4-3 defensive tackle, 4-3 defensive end, 3-4 defensive end, and 3-4 nose tackle all at a high level. "

    Just because Richard is 6'6" 310lbs what in the world makes you think he couldn't be a great DE in a 4-3, YOU ARE BEYOND CLUELESS !!!!

    "No, they wouldn't. You really don't know what you are talking about. Seriously, you are the clueless one here and its pretty sad. Vrable and Thomas would be DEs in a 4-3 set-up. NOT OLBs. OLBs in the 4-3 aren't nearly as big as Thomas."

    Oh and this brilliant quote, Adalius Thomas couldn't play a strong side OLB in a 4-3? Please tell me I just didn't read this, please tell me. If you actually made this statement, I think you owe us all an apology for pure stupidity. AT has the versatility to play anywhere in the defense, the Ravens and Billick actually played this guy at safety at one point, that's how versatile he is. Listen, please do your homework first before you speak !!!! You have no idea what you are talking about.

    Also, your brilliant quote about no one wanting to deal with Eric the Rat after the spygate stuff, you never answered my response about the Saints not having any issues, the Panthers not having any issues and soon to be Broncos not having any issues dealing with Eric ???? I want you to stop to posting, you're throwing crap against the wall man, and it ain't sticking, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    You'll be that one guy who's jumping around his living room in April if Darren Mc"HappyFathersDay" falls into our laps, simply because of his name.
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  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Let me know when you've actually watched the Pats because you continue to flap your trap and prove you haven't. The experiement of Seymour at NT was a failure. Its why they drafted Warren (who didn't work out at NT either) and then Wilfork, who did. When the Pats ran the 4-3 in 2002, Seymour was lining up at DT, not DE.

    You might also want to do some homework there and figure out that Seymour was elected to those Pro-Bowl as a 4-3 DT and a 3-4 DE. As for Wikipedia, its good for basic information but not much beyond that. Using it as a source to cite that a player has played at a high level in 4 different positions is a joke. Particularly when people who've followed the team know that's not the case.

    You claim I'm clueless but you spew the same garbage over and over again that isn't supported by reality.

    Actually, you didn't read that. You made it up. I said that Thomas wouldn't be an OLB in the 4-3 you're proposing because he was too big. But also because they need him as a DE because Seymour and Warren are too big and too slow to play the position.

    I know the versatility that AD (his real nickname) has. I've touted it plenty of times. So, please know what the hell you are talking about, since you clearly don't.

    How about you stop making up things and trying to attribute them to me and stick to reality. Or are you not able to do that?

    Listen, you truly are clueless and don't know a damn thing about me. I don't want the over-rated Darren "Chicken Legs" McFadden. So, please keep your idiocy to yourself.

    What I can understand and you don't is that Carolina wanted to rid themselves of Jenkins and they felt they got him for a steal. The Saints NEEDED a MLB and the Jets were giving away one of the better ones in the league. So it was like taking candy from a Baby.

    But, you continue on with your garbage that the Pats will switch to the 4-3. When they don't, you can go cry in a corner.
  20. c_nice_37

    c_nice_37 Rookie

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    Wow, this thread is fun.

    B2M : I have to agree with other posters, Seymour and Warren as 4-3 DE's puts them at a less than optimal position. Typical 4-3 DE is big and FAST. Big Sey and Warren are great, GREAT, at what they do. Could they play 4-3 DE? Probably. But they would be destined to be bull rush pass rushers, and one trick ponies can be killed by a decent OT. They do not possess the speed needed by a pass rushing DE. However, it would be a damn good run-stuffing D-Line.

    Converting Seymour/ Warren to DE in a 4-3 would make the Pats currently lackluster pass-rush a non-existent one.

    Other Topic for all posters : Teams will not hesitate to trade with the Jets due to spite. You gotta do what is best for your team, and if someone thinks Ryan at 6 is a a good deal for them, hello Tannenbaum. That being said, Ryan at 7 is more likely because I tend to think teams will see that he won't go until 8, unless they trade to 7 to leapfrog the Ravens.
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