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What has Bush accomplished by way of security?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 5, 2007.

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  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the plus column, there have been no attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11 and Libya has moved to a more moderate position. We could add Saddam Hussein to this list, except for the fact we have discovered no WMDs or evidence that Saddam was a danger to us under the policy of containment.

    In the minus column, 3,000 Americans have died since 9/11, Iran and North Korea are actively involved in the pursuit of nuclear weapons, anti-American sentiment around the world are on the rise, our borders and ports remain fairly porous, Osama bin Laden remains free, Afghanistan remains a haven for terrorists, and there's evidence that Iraq has become a recruiting and training ground for anti-American extremists. Many would also put the immigration issue in the minus column.

    It seems clear that the neocon-Republican policies have done great harm to our national security. So far, this harm is only manifest in the loss of our servicemen and women and the increasing power of our enemies, but at some point these enemies will attack other American interests besides our troops. In the last election, the American people rejected these backward policies, and we have to hope that the Democrats and Republicans in Congress find enough unity and means to reign Bush in.
     
  2. The Predator

    The Predator Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I am sorry sir, but I need to disagree with this statement. If you define WMD as nuclear weapons (which is not the correct definition) then you are correct.

    Small amounts have been dicovered. Some may balk at small amounts but if I remeber correctly a briefcase of anthrax could wipe out NYC given the right conditions.

    http://www.strategypage.com/strategypolitics/articles/20031004.asp

    Why is there a Chemical Ali if there are no WMDs?

    Whether you agree with the mess of the war and how to fix it has nothing to do with facts. WMDs were found and your statement is misleading. Small amounts were found and possibly used on our troups, and evidence pointing to large plans for manufacturing are evident.
     
  3. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Give us a break with the WMD fairy tale. Everyone has moved on from that except the severely deluded.

    By way of security, using Bushs own logic, its clear that security is diminished in one very clear way. Bush has claimed numerous times that we must reduce our dependance on foreign oil, as this would improve national security. However, our reliance on oil imports has increased under the gasman and as such, we are much more vulnerable to oil shocks.

    His cronies love it. Us at the pumps, stuck with Bushs Saudi Opec friends and Fat Bastard Lee Raymond gouging and stealing....we're not so secure.
     
  4. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    So by that logic, we should invade every country in which has chemical weapons and terrorist ties? Thats a long list of countries that need to be invaded.
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The only chemical weapons that have been discovered are old and expired. That's why when Rick Santorum tried to make a big deal out of the discovery, it went nowhere. No chemical weapons have been used during the insurgency and no chemical weapons were used in recent terrorist attacks. Maybe you just think the terrorists are actually nice people who don't want to use all those WMDs that we've sacrificed 3000 lives and counting to destroy.

    "A Pentagon official who confirmed the findings said that all the weapons were pre-1991 vintage munitions 'in such a degraded state they couldn't be used for what they are designed for.'"

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/22/060622055545.07o4imol.html
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Well Patters, we all know what your agenda is, but when it comes to security, GW has done far more in the good column, than he has in the bad. Bush haters always mention how Iraq has taken our eye off of UBL, well, how come they never talk about how Iraq has taken UBL's eyes off of the USA? AQ is so concentrated in Iraq and Afghanistan that the average citizen has been spared. He certainly hasn't done every right, I'd never say that, but the end game is that the common citizen has been safe since 9/11.
     
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmmm...so why aren't we drilling in Anwar, or exploring the reserves off our coasts? I'm going to get a chuckle when Cuba starts drilling a few miles from South Beach. Furthermore, I think consumption has gone up under every administration. Bush has done no different than any president before him. Be it the lax border, immigration, oil consumption, etc...on lots of issues the reality is that it's always been a problem.
     
  8. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    BS...Clinton never held "secret" energy meetings and then turned around and handed big oil huge tax breaks and invaded an oil rich nation.

    Wake up man. You are smarter than that. While Billy Blue Dress could have done much more in moving to energy independance, our reliance on oil from instable nations has greatly increased under Curious George.

    Not to mention terrorist attacks have gone way up.
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One thing not pointed out is that many of the so called companies who specialize in security Blackwater, Custer Battles(oops they are in jail), Haliburton and many of these types of firms have made a lot of money and defrauded the US taxpayer out of billions of dollars. From a security point of view these companies have raped the taxpayer and put our soldiers in harms way. Now George is talking about another 20 Billion, and they are licking their chops.
     
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    He has thinned out our national security forces! thats good.

    He has our national guard pulling full time duty in two wars! thats GREAT

    He has given our port security to a country that funded 9-11! Splendid!

    he has proven that in a time of disaster, he and the federal government will move swiftly to assist in rescue. And not concern themselfs with profit, but instead be mindful of human life.

    The Administration has done a fine job! I feel safe. So safe.......Lets do more to keep me safe! Tap my phone, torture a terror suspect, read my mail, read this email, invade another country!

    I think what will make us safer will be a full scale attack / invasion of Iran. At last Americans will be Free....and most importantly.....Safe.
     
  11. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yup,. and the crazies on the fringe right wing are more than willing to give it away to them, and then complain about their taxes. Bunch of morons they are.

    I personally will love the day the contractors are forced to testify about their handling of their accounts, and reveal how they bilked the US taxpayer for 4 years with nary a peep.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I suppose it depends what your measure of good is. I say whether Al Qaeda kills American soldiers or American civilians, it's still a dead American. I think that Al Qaeda will not try too hard to attack on U.S. soil as long as they can attack us in their backyard. Perhaps we should offer to kill a couple thousands of our soldiers a year if Al Qaeda agrees not to attack us? Would that be a good deal? Would that be a victory for Bush? Now, when you say Bush has done far more in the good column, what measure are you using and what are you talking about? I'm measuring his success primarily by lives lost.
     
  13. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Back on topic, while I know this is old, has it been improved in the past year?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/05/AR2005120500097.html


    I doubt it. Had the Republicans followed the recommendations, and done things like: implement a reliable national emergency communications system, or adequately funded homeland security in high risk target areas other than DC and red states. For instance, they wouldn't have cut funding to NYC.

    Big the biggest thing of course is failing to do something about illegal immigration, specifically the Visa program.
     
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    If he did hold "Secret" meetings, what makes you think anyone would know about them? :D

    Understood, GW is in bed with big oil, and is orally satisfying the Saudi's. Still, why aren't we drilling in Anwar, or exploring the massive reserves off our coast? There have been attempts since 9/11 to pass legislation that would have done that, yet, nothing passed. This country, since I've been alive at least, has never made any legitimate attempts to curb oil consumption. When Clinton faced criticism from the public for rising gas prices in the 90's, his response was to release parts of the strategic reserve. To reinforce my point that they're all the same, GW followed the same path a couple of years ago. He released the strategic reserve. Perfume on a pig. I'll at least toss a bone to GW in one regard, he used to have a tax incentive for people who bought hybrids. For some strange reason though, those incentives were temporary.
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Well then you're a moron. Sorry. AQ is going to kill Americans, period. That's fact. Personally, I'd rather they try to take on a trained, armed, and armored grunt, than some poor woman on her way to work, or some baby in day care.

    Put it this way, who would you rather a thief/thug go after, a poor sap walking home from work, or a cop?

    Exactly, because they're too busy getting wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    The sad part is if you were in charge, you'd try to do that. Your kind think these people can be talked to. That they can be negotiated with. Sad.
     
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Real World, I think Al Qaeda was a ragtag army that got lucky on 9/11. We have legitimized them, made people believe they were strong enough to take on the U.S. As long as we treat them like a real army, they will remain a legitimate group for radicals to turn to. If we never invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda would probably be weaker than it is today. The longer we stay in Iraq, the more legitimacy groups like Al Qaeda get. In other words, our troops are not saving our lives by dying over there, they are simply dying because the neocons have too much pride to admit they were wrong.
     
  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    NeoCons can't ever be wrong!

    sarcasm aside....Patters gets my 'here-here' on this.
     
  18. The Predator

    The Predator Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I appreciate you rudeness as I have not given you any whatsoever. I never interpreted the data saying it justified anything. It would seem that you have a complex against the facts and a personal agenda to express.

    I did neither and I am going to venture that you didnt even read the facts on the website I listed. Instead you took your agenda and tried to assault me as delusional. Well ty so much for the intellectual interaction or lack thereof.
     
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Muslim Terrorists just like the ones that ATTACKED AMERICA on 9/11 would sell their childrens souls to be able to do it again.

    WHY HAVEN'T THEY?
     
  20. The Predator

    The Predator Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Excuse you? Whoever justified the invasion of Iraq in my post? Why do you people attack people instead of consider facts? I never said we should invade anyone. I listed a site that shows facts that Iraq had some WMD and the USA found them. I appreciate your attempt to make me look like a War hungry monster who thinks we should invade many countries. I do not understand your logic or propeganda to disqualify the facts I listed.
     
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