What happened to Tunsil proves that Brady was 100% right in destroying his phone

[RobertWeathers]

Ok. By your logic (there is no mention in the cba saying the nfl cant demand private property so therefore they can), they can ask for toms tax filings and family photo albums too ( maybe there is a photo of the dorito dinks T a bbq at toms house and we can accuse him of paying them off).

The only other case

Yes that is my logic. By way of the loosely worded CBA, the NFLPA allows the NFL to ask for and illegally collect evidence that runs counter to the spirit of the 4th. In addition, if he refuses he is viewed as uncooperative and that counts against him when punishment is passed out.

 

[Froob]

Because its flaws were that it was rigged against NE.

The fact that it was rigged against NE and despite that could only say physics failed to account for 0.2 PSI of the pressure drop is why it is very strong evidence that no human did anything to the balls.

I wish they could get Goodell on record in court saying he believes Brady wanted the balls deflated by .2 PSI.

 

[ANGR89]

apparently you didn't see the leaked documents that included hundreds of emails and text correspondence from brady including private items such as Brady saying manning only had one year left, and what cover pool cover he should get, etc.

Brady gave them EVERYTHING. And once they couldn't find anything they could use to persecute him, they decided "oh by the way we changed out mind, give us your phone"

hey Brady was right, Manning only had 1 year left! lol

 

[RobertWeathers]

I wish they could get Goodell on record in court saying he believes Brady wanted the balls deflated by .2 PSI.

He would never commit to a number. He would say that Tom was the catalyst in requiring the balls to be deflated.

 

[ivanvamp]

I never mentioned texts. There is a reason for that.

In the report and publicly, Wells was satisfied with the information he received from Tom Brady and was complimentary on his level of cooperation.

Then the NFL propaganda/smear campaign machine was in full force.

This is fact.

The problem for Brady is that wiping his phone the day before (or was it the day OF...can't remember) he met with Wells just...looks very bad. And Wells and Goodell and Judge Chin are humans and even if logically they can make sense of it, it just looks really really bad.

 

[JoeSixPat]

OTL: Tunsil camp investigates ex-adviser in hack

Apparently Tunsil's troubles all come from a cell phone that a man he hired as a financial advisor gave him. Once Tunsil signed with an agent, the agent told him that they financial advisor wasn't licensed and is basically just someone who is hired by other agents to funnel people towards a particular agent and or financial advisor.

So after Tunsil fired him, he gave him back the phone. The guy then used the phone and Tunsil's stored passwords to his social media accounts to cost him 10 million dollars in a few minutes!

Could you imagine what the Wells and the NFL would have done with Brady's phone?

Heck, even Roger Goodell wouldn't trust them with his personal cell phone

Sadly, most in the media and the Hatriot fan base have just conveniently overlooked the fact that Goodell "proved" his own guilt by refusing to comply with Mueller's demand to review Roger's personal cell phone - not just the official one.

Yes - just like Brady, though Brady was told by the investigator he didn't want or need the cellphone - setting Brady up to have Goodell demand it and use that to justify his "guilty" verdict

Mueller of course, earning millions, didn't press the issue with Goodell - nor did very many in the media

Last summer, Roger Goodell lied. A US District judge has proven this. Roger Goodell, when facing criticism for the way he did his job, when facing the risk of potentially losing his job, started to squirm. He was in a bad position, one from which he could not wriggle himself free, and so he lied. He deceived. He hid facts. He was anything but truthful.

This is all documented. It’s a matter of public record.

And what did Roger do to hold himself accountable for the lies he was proven to have told? He paid Robert Mueller millions of dollars to execute a report that cleared the NFL of any wrongdoing. Forget about what the judge said — the NFL was going to exonerate itself. And it did.

But guess who never had to turn over his private cell phone during that investigation. Why, that would be one Mr. Roger Goodell.

Hurley: Goodell Holding Brady To Wholly Hypocritical Standard

 

[Big Bucks]

bloody hell, how did that guy have 5000+ posts on this site. lol

Must have been hiding in the political room and ventured out because Cruz gave up.

 

[ivanvamp]

I believe she is referring to the legal issue of notice. Not what we are discussing here.

letekro, here's what you need to remember. There is NO evidence whatsoever that Tom Brady did ANYTHING against the rules. ANYTHING. All the evidence points to the notion that Brady wanted footballs at 12.5 psi. Not a single shred of evidence points to him doing anything wrong.

What looks suspicious about Brady is him wiping his phone the day he was supposed to meet with Wells. Just looks really, really bad.

But here's the thing. We have to ask ourselves, what's the penalty for not fully cooperating, for not turning over your cell phone?

Brett Favre didn't turn over his phone and he got fined $50,000.

Stephen Gostkowski didn't turn over his phone in the very same deflate gate investigation and he got NO PENALTY WHATSOEVER. NONE.

Tom Brady didn't turn over his cell phone (or give the specific records; neither did Favre or Gost) and he got suspended FOUR GAMES and lost a ton of money (less so because he and NE restructured his contract).

One of these things is not like the others. The penalty given to Brady is so ridiculously, catastrophically, laughably out of whack that it's an absolute travesty.

 

[NashuaPats]

This is fact.

The problem for Brady is that wiping his phone the day before (or was it the day OF...can't remember) he met with Wells just...looks very bad. And Wells and Goodell and Judge Chin are humans and even if logically they can make sense of it, it just looks really really bad.

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that he waited to replace/upgrade his phone until after Wells agreed he did not require it. At that point, he had his personal assistant take care of it as normally does.

If he got rid of his phone before the matter had been settled, then it would look suspicious. But since he waited for the matter to be settled, there is absolutely no reason to find it suspicious except for the NFL controlling the narrative through leaks and choice of language.

 

[letekro]

Nice twisting of the facts.. he didn't destroy his texts or emails, he destroyed a media device that could be used to read them but the texts themselves were perfectly intact and PROVIDED BY BRADY thru his phone company.

Emails are not tied to a phone, and as an IT guy i find it hilarious that you would think by destroying your phone that your emails are somehow destroyed in the process.

The bolded part is utterly false. You may know IT, but you are badly misinformed about the facts of this case.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The point is the NFLPA negotiated it away.

They didn't negotiate it away. Rather, they did not negotiate for it.

Your employer can say "let me look at your personal cell phone or you're fired" and you won't have a leg to stand on unless you have a contract that says he can't do it or live in a state that has a law that says (or has been interpreted by courts to say) refusal to turn over a personal phone can't be grounds for firing.

 

[ivanvamp]

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that he waited to replace/upgrade his phone until after Wells agreed he did not require it. At that point, he had his personal assistant take care of it as normally does.

If he got rid of his phone before the matter had been settled, then it would look suspicious. But since he waited for the matter to be settled, there is absolutely no reason to find it suspicious except for the NFL controlling the narrative through leaks and choice of language.

The problem is that it looks bad *to the people deciding his fate*. Everyone else's opinion is irrelevant, sadly.

 

[JoeSixPat]

letekro I think you are missing my point. What if Brady had given the NFL his phone, who is to say they wouldn't have accessed any of the other aps on his phone, his banking ap is one I would try to access, let alone pictures of his wife and kids. I know that the texts between me and some of my co-workers are funny to us, but might not be too funny to others. Manu of these aps keep the password and once you have that, you can access any of his accounts from any device anywhere in the world.

All this personal information, some of which, you don't even realize is on your phone, is the reason that Brady, smartly destroys his old phones.

I know when it comes time for me to hand in my work phone, before I turn it in, it will get wiped, accidentally fall in my pool, then my toilet, the sim card will miraculously disappear, and then get microwaved.

Even without that additional concern - Goodell - who again refused to give HIS cellphone to Investigator Mueller during the Ray Rice investigation - would have certainly gone fishing for any and every possible circumstantial text or email

Goodell of course already had all the texts between Brady and Patriots personnel - anything on THEIR official cellphones he had

But just review what Goodell published of the text records in the Richie Ingognito investigation

Not surprisingly, Goodell did not present Incognito in a good light

The NFLPA learned an important lesson that day - don't do more than the CBA allows because Roger will make sure he uses that against you

DeflateGate: Why Tom Brady Didn't Give His Phone To Ted Wells' Investigation Team

Richie Incognito is a relative nobody. He’s the type of guy you might see crushing fries and light beers at a Buffalo Wild Wings on a Tuesday afternoon. He handed his phone over because he was under attack for being a “bully” to another grown man, and his future employment prospects in the NFL depended on Wells clearing his name.

Here’s how Incognito was rewarded for his cooperation. (The texts were much too vulgar to publish unedited, so I’ll do my best to add some colorful [censored] words.)

“I’m going to shoot you and claim self defense … I’m white ur black I’ll walk”

“I got the worst [sexual favor] ever!”

“Don’t forget the cocaine too … No dude hookers u [homosexual slur] … Don’t blame ur gay tendancies on [name redacted] … Stop it.”

“U good dude? Did u get some chick pregnant? I’ll help u off her if that’s the case”

“They are massive and fake. I love fake [ones] … Is it wrong that I want to get wasted again and talk to babes … Ur black and I hate u”

“That’s the gayest [crap] I’ve ever heard. U really are a [homosexual slur]”

“Ur a [P-word] … [P-word]…[P-word]… [P-word] U are no longer my road dog”

That’s just a sampling of the thousand or so text messages from Incognito to Jonathan Martin which were pasted on the Internet for all the world to see.

Granted, it is highly unlikely that Brady engages in text message conversations that are as ridiculous as Incognito’s. But the tabloids would have a field day with anything Brady said to anybody. And given theridiculous number of leaks that were coming out of the league office at that time — including Jim McNally’s name and town of residence getting pasted all over ESPN.com in the midst of the investigation — there is nothing the NFL could have said to Brady to convince him that the private messages would actually be protected by the investigation team.

Brady’s a generally private guy, and again, this was an investigation into the PSI of footballs used in a football game. So he kept that phone in his pocket.

 

[Gumby]

Yes that is my logic. By way of the loosely worded CBA, the NFLPA allows the NFL to ask for and illegally collect evidence that runs counter to the spirit of the 4th. In addition, if he refuses he is viewed as uncooperative and that counts against him when punishment is passed out.

Just because it isnt mentioned that doesnt mean they "negotiated it away". What theNflpa negotiated away (or more accurately: failed to address) was a right to a TRULY IMPARTIAL appeal authority.

That left the door open for kim sun go-to-hell to do whatever the heck he feels like. But that doesnt mean they negotiated away or (in a fair world) your rights to own private property and protections against self-incrimination in fishing expeditions are given up. It just means a bunch of Namby-pamby lawyers are giving undue deference to 'arbitration agreement' doctrine and undue admiration for their fellow word-parsers contortion-gymnastics ability.

 

[letekro]

letekro, here's what you need to remember. There is NO evidence whatsoever that Tom Brady did ANYTHING against the rules. ANYTHING. All the evidence points to the notion that Brady wanted footballs at 12.5 psi. Not a single shred of evidence points to him doing anything wrong.

What looks suspicious about Brady is him wiping his phone the day he was supposed to meet with Wells. Just looks really, really bad.

But here's the thing. We have to ask ourselves, what's the penalty for not fully cooperating, for not turning over your cell phone?

Brett Favre didn't turn over his phone and he got fined $50,000.

Stephen Gostkowski didn't turn over his phone in the very same deflate gate investigation and he got NO PENALTY WHATSOEVER. NONE.

Tom Brady didn't turn over his cell phone (or give the specific records; neither did Favre or Gost) and he got suspended FOUR GAMES and lost a ton of money (less so because he and NE restructured his contract).

One of these things is not like the others. The penalty given to Brady is so ridiculously, catastrophically, laughably out of whack that it's an absolute travesty.

I'm just trying to clear up the facts. For example, it is a commonly held belief on this forum that Brady provided Wells with the text messages and emails on the phone he used during the 2014 season. That is patently false. Many here also believe that Brady was disciplined for not handing over his phone, but this is also false. The penalty for noncooperation was for not providing the potentially relevant texts and emails that were requested.

What you are talking about here is a legal question about contract interpretation of Article 46. Goodell says not providing that information was punishable under Article 46. Brady says that punishment is invalid because he had no notice of it and it violated "law of the shop." Well, that is a legal question to which there is no clear answer--as you can see 4 federal judges have split down the middle.

 

[NashuaPats]

The problem is that it looks bad *to the people deciding his fate*. Everyone else's opinion is irrelevant, sadly.

It only "looked bad" because the NFL had an embarrasingly weak case and they were looking for something to make him look guilty and then leaked the information to the media without proper context saying he "destroyed" his phone. By the time the full context was explained, Goodell had already won the game with the media. I don't know what Judge Chin's problem was. Maybe he did not spend much time studying the evidence as it really had nothing to do with the case in front of him.

 

[ivanvamp]

Even without that additional concern - Goodell - who again refused to give HIS cellphone to Investigator Mueller during the Ray Rice investigation - would have certainly gone fishing for any and every possible circumstantial text or email

Goodell of course already had all the texts between Brady and Patriots personnel - anything on THEIR official cellphones he had

But just review what Goodell published of the text records in the Richie Ingognito investigation

Not surprisingly, Goodell did not present Incognito in a good light

The NFLPA learned an important lesson that day - don't do more than the CBA allows because Roger will make sure he uses that against you

DeflateGate: Why Tom Brady Didn't Give His Phone To Ted Wells' Investigation Team

It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. You turn all the information over, and, because it's a total fishing expedition, he'll use anything that even *remotely* looks suspicious. Like the "deflator" text - it is so out of context and its meaning is so totally unclear, but because it looks suspicious to someone LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO BE SUSPICIOUS ABOUT, it's, well, suspicious.

But if you don't turn it over, THAT is then used against you.

 

[ivanvamp]

I'm just trying to clear up the facts. For example, it is a commonly held belief on this forum that Brady provided Wells with the text messages and emails on the phone he used during the 2014 season. That is patently false. Many here also believe that Brady was disciplined for not handing over his phone, but this is also false. The penalty for noncooperation was for not providing the potentially relevant texts and emails that were requested.

What you are talking about here is a legal question about contract interpretation of Article 46. Goodell says not providing that information was punishable under Article 46. Brady says that punishment is invalid because he had no notice of it and it violated "law of the shop." Well, that is a legal question to which there is no clear answer--as you can see 4 federal judges have split down the middle.

My point is simply that even if you are right about all that - and others following this case VERY closely (like Steph Stradley) disagree with you about that - the penalty Goodell issued was so completely out of whack - absolutely unprecedented and totally inconsistent with others who did the same thing, that any reasonable judge should have immediately thought that something was terribly amiss with how Goodell is dispensing "justice" here.

The CBA grants the commissioner latitude, but it does not allow him to just do whatever the hell he wants in a totally inconsistent fashion.

Which is, of course, precisely what Goodell did.

 

[Joker]

The bolded part is utterly false. You may know IT, but you are badly misinformed about the facts of this case.

Brady offered to help NFL gather missing text messages

The league arguably opted not to track down the text messages or to match them up with text messages that the league already harvested from other phones, like the one used by John Jastremski, because the league already had the silver bullet it needed to win convincingly in the court of public opinion.

Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.

It was expertly leaked to ESPN by the same league office that had expertly leaked the 11-of-12 footballs falsehood to ESPN.

Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.

It’s a theme that will be adhered to even though Brady made available the phone numbers necessary to reconstructing the contents of the messages.

Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.

The details don’t matter once the message takes root. For #DeflateGate, a couple of giant oaks are growing at the NFL’s equivalent of Toomer’s Corner. The first one? 11 of 12 footballs were two pounds under the minimum PSI.

The second?

Tom Brady destroyed his cell phone.

The "facts"? YOU keep ignoring the greatest "FACT"," F-A-C-T", of this case..that the balls were TWO POUNDS, not TENTHS of a pound, TWO WHOLE POUNDS under 12.5!!! Why are you being so deliberately obtuse?? There IS NO CASE from the start!!! What the hell does Brady's phone have to do with anything MONTHS LATER?!! Jeezus krist stop this insanity.

 

[letekro]

My point is simply that even if you are right about all that - and others following this case VERY closely (like Steph Stradley) disagree with you about that - the penalty Goodell issued was so completely out of whack - absolutely unprecedented and totally inconsistent with others who did the same thing, that any reasonable judge should have immediately thought that something was terribly amiss with how Goodell is dispensing "justice" here.

The CBA grants the commissioner latitude, but it does not allow him to just do whatever the hell he wants in a totally inconsistent fashion. Which is, of course, precisely what Goodell did.

You and Steph Stradley are talking about the legal issue. I have no opinion on that, so I can't see how we have a "disagreement." It is a legal issue. It requires research and thought that I don't care to give it. I can tell from the briefs that the law is not clear in this area. My only purpose is to try to clear up the facts. While the opinions are hard to understand even if you know the facts, they are downright impossible if you don't know the facts.