What happened to Tunsil proves that Brady was 100% right in destroying his phone

[Froob]

It's silly this is even an issue....if it was just a picture of him funnelling beer nobody would give a ****. I also don't care at all that he took money. I'd take the money without hesitation and without feeling an ounce of guilt. **** the NCAA.

 

[Angelpats]

Anyone arguing about the phone is forgetting what this whole thing was about. Air pressure. There is enough scientific evidence now that would suggest nothing happened at all. And logically who in their right mind would risk prison to lie under oath about air pressure. Who in their sane mind would Take this to the Supreme Court. This is not like stealing a loaf of bread, legally taking air out of the ball is like passing gas. The only person who would fight for years about not letting air out of footballs would be someone that never did let air of out the balls.

 

[IllegalContact]

So what part of the CBA stipulates which issues are turned over to independent arbitration and which ones are not?

 

[IllegalContact]

Anyone arguing about the phone is forgetting what this whole thing was about. Air pressure. There is enough scientific evidence now that would suggest nothing happened at all. And logically who in their right mind would risk prison to lie under oath about air pressure. Who in their sane mind would Take this to the Supreme Court. This is not like stealing a loaf of bread, legally taking air out of the ball is like passing gas. The only person who would fight for years about not letting air out of footballs would be someone that never did let air of out the balls.

it's not about air pressure either..........

 

[Angelpats]

it's not about air pressure either..........

... Yeah, it has spiraled out of control. If we had a commissioner that had a logical mind maybe it would not have.

 

[RobertWeathers]

So what part of the CBA stipulates which issues are turned over to independent arbitration and which ones are not?

I think it's Goody's discretion to decide which cases he can serve as arbitrator and which ones he can pimp out

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

So what part of the CBA stipulates which issues are turned over to independent arbitration and which ones are not?

the PED cases go to a neutral arbitraor

 

[fair catch fryar]

... Yeah, it has spiraled out of control. If we had a commissioner that had a logical mind maybe it would not have.

Yup! This whole mess should've ended a week after the Superbowl with a statement and/or maybe a fine for some stupid reason. The fact that it has reached this point is mind-boggling and I for one now hope it reaches the Supreme Court because I believe it would look a whole lot worse for Goodell and the NFL in the court of public opinion.

 

[letekro]

Isn't it important that the evidence supports no inflation of the footballs making the phone moot?

There is no murder conviction when the corpse is walking around uninjured.

Its not a stretch. Wells said it. He is on record as saying it.

You are correct in the respect that Wells did ask to look at TB12's phone and was denied the request. In the absence of the phone he stated that TB12 answered every question with sincerity and honesty. He had McNally and Jaz's texts so he was "satisfied". To your point we don't know what constitutes "satisfied" but he said it. Thats it.

Now, if someone told TB12 that he would have been in big F-ing trouble w/o turning over his phone at that juncture and in March and Wells says that TB12 was completely uncooperative, then that is different than "satisfied" and "cooperative"

I really don't want to argue this anymore. 15 months is enough.

You are arguing the notice issue. That is a legal question on which I dont have strong views. I only wanted to clear up the facts. Namely, The purported basis for the suspension was failure to provide data from the phone, not failure to provide the phone itself.

 

[letekro]

Isn't it important that the evidence supports no inflation of the footballs making the phone moot?

There is no murder conviction when the corpse is walking around uninjured.

The Exponent report no more exonerates Brady than it convicts him.

Its not a stretch. Wells said it. He is on record as saying it.

You are correct in the respect that Wells did ask to look at TB12's phone and was denied the request. In the absence of the phone he stated that TB12 answered every question with sincerity and honesty. He had McNally and Jaz's texts so he was "satisfied". To your point we don't know what constitutes "satisfied" but he said it. Thats it.

Now, if someone told TB12 that he would have been in big F-ing trouble w/o turning over his phone at that juncture and in March and Wells says that TB12 was completely uncooperative, then that is different than "satisfied" and "cooperative"

I really don't want to argue this anymore. 15 months is enough.

You are arguing the notice issue. That is a legal question on which I dont have strong views. I only wanted to clear up the facts. Namely, The purported basis for the suspension was failure to provide a relatively narrow set of data from the phone, not failure to provide the phone itself.

 

[IllegalContact]

the PED cases go to a neutral arbitraor

which ones do not? didn't goodell equate brady to PEDs?

 

[letekro]

Isn't it important that the evidence supports no inflation of the footballs making the phone moot?

There is no murder conviction when the corpse is walking around uninjured.

The Exponent report no more exonerates Brady than it convicts him.

Its not a stretch. Wells said it. He is on record as saying it.

You are correct in the respect that Wells did ask to look at TB12's phone and was denied the request. In the absence of the phone he stated that TB12 answered every question with sincerity and honesty. He had McNally and Jaz's texts so he was "satisfied". To your point we don't know what constitutes "satisfied" but he said it. Thats it.

Now, if someone told TB12 that he would have been in big F-ing trouble w/o turning over his phone at that juncture and in March and Wells says that TB12 was completely uncooperative, then that is different than "satisfied" and "cooperative"

I really don't want to argue this anymore. 15 months is enough.

You are arguing the notice issue. That is a legal question on which I dont have strong views. I only wanted to clear up the facts. Namely, The purported basis for the suspension was failure to provide data from the phone, not failure to provide the phone itself.

 

[IllegalContact]

The Exponent report no more exonerates Brady than it convicts him

the Exponent report does nothing since it is inaccurate/incorrect

 

[letekro]

the Exponent report does nothing since it is inaccurate/incorrect

99% agree. One thing it does is compare experimental results with the halftime measurements and finds the Colt balls in line with the experiment and the Pats balls out of whack. That experiment can be questioned, but I have yet to see an experiment done that produces data similar to the Measurements of the Pats' balls. You would think the Patriots coould afford to commission such a study. At any rate, the idea that the Exponent Report indicates or proves that no deflation occurred is false.

 

[IllegalContact]

99% agree. One thing it does is compare experimental results with the halftime measurements and finds the Colt balls in line with the experiment and the Pats balls out of whack. That experiment can be questioned, but I have yet to see an experiment done that produces data similar to the Measurements of the Pats' balls. You would think the Patriots coould afford to commission such a study. At any rate, the idea that the Exponent Report indicates or proves that no deflation occurred is false.

I thought several colts balls were also too low

and as reports such as the Exponent report fly, either they're 100% right or they're wrong

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Exponent report no more exonerates Brady than it convicts him.

I think your perspective is different that others. Some will say that Exponent manipulated the test environment, the instrumentation used so that the findings reinforced the NFL's narrative.

You are arguing the notice issue. That is a legal question on which I dont have strong views. I only wanted to clear up the facts. Namely, The purported basis for the suspension was failure to provide data from the phone, not failure to provide the phone itself.

OK our argument has a nuance to it. There was never a formal notice issued for the phone or the digital contents. All Wells did was ***** that TB12 never gave him a look at the phone. That is not a formal notice.

During the investigative phase, there wasn't a formalized legal or CBA notice in which the NFL had cited as enforcing the ask for the phone or it's contents. Its plausible to assume that Wells knew he did not have either legal grounds and/or stipulation in the CBA in which would entitle the NFL to the contents of the phone so he stayed clear of it. I speculate that Pash said that the NFL would fight that war- which clearly they won.

Going back to my original statement, it was never a notice issue. It was an issue with the "independent" investigation saying it was satisfied and Brady was cooperative.

Its still baffling to me how Chin could hold that against Brady when there were no legal or CBA-related stipulations. Nowhere in the CBA does it say the player must provide their private property to the NFL during an investigation. Clearly the legal question that seems unexplored (yet) is does Goody's broad powers entitle the NFL to the phone and in the absence of seizing private property be used against the player and aid in the determination of guilt and punishment.

 

[letekro]

I thought several colts balls were also too low

and as reports such as the Exponent report fly, either they're 100% right or they're wrong

They were below 12.5 but they were in line with the results when Exponent tried to recreate the game day conditions in an experiment.

 

[letekro]

I think your perspective is different that others. Some will say that Exponent manipulated the test environment, the instrumentation used so that the findings reinforced the NFL's narrative.



OK our argument has a nuance to it. There was never a formal notice issued for the phone or the digital contents. All Wells did was ***** that TB12 never gave him a look at the phone. That is not a formal notice.

During the investigative phase, there wasn't a formalized legal or CBA notice in which the NFL had cited as enforcing the ask for the phone or it's contents. Its plausible to assume that Wells knew he did not have either legal grounds and/or stipulation in the CBA in which would entitle the NFL to the contents of the phone so he stayed clear of it. I speculate that Pash said that the NFL would fight that war- which clearly they won.

Going back to my original statement, it was never a notice issue. It was an issue with the "independent" investigation saying it was satisfied and Brady was cooperative.

Its still baffling to me how Chin could hold that against Brady when there were no legal or CBA-related stipulations. Nowhere in the CBA does it say the player must provide their private property to the NFL during an investigation.

Understand that Wells' satisfaction, whatever that means, is irrelevant. Goodell as Art 46 arbitrator made the call that failure to provide thise texts was punishable non-cooperation. I think we agree that that this was a weak basis for a suspension.

As for the science, i find the exponent report to be of little evidentiary value. Wells thought the same. Why it is that the same people that once went on and on about its obvious flaws now say it is conclusive evidence of Bradys innocence is beyond me.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

With regards to the "destroyed" phone.

If Brady would have said, I have possession of the phone, but I will never let you see its contents because it is my private/personnel property. Would that have made a difference? The end result is, I don't think so because the NFL would have as much information as it did.

But, they turned it into a, there must be proof if it was destroyed message and a Judge went with that?

Especially with Goodell not providing his personnel cell phone when they turned information over looking for the Ray Rice video.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Understand that Wells' satisfaction, whatever that means, is irrelevant. Goodell as Art 46 arbitrator made the call that failure to provide thise texts was punishable non-cooperation. I think we agree that that this was a weak basis for a suspension.

I know....I agree.

Why the NFLPA would give up it's 4th Amendment right to the NFL is beyond me.....

The NFL has no right to private property and a lack of evidence is not guilt.

How a federal judge(s) let that slide is madness.

As for the science, i find the exponent report to be of little evidentiary value. Wells thought the same. Why it is that the same people that once went on and on about its obvious flaws now say it is conclusive evidence of Bradys innocence is beyond me.

Yea Wells did play it down b/c I think he knew it was junk. Either way it was on the record and used throughout the saga.