What does Tedy do well anymore?

[DaBruinz]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

No I don't. But I do watch every play of every game a number of times. Look at KC Joyner's stats for the LB position. He takes into account a lot more data than just "tackles". Just look at our defensive YPC avg after Rosey went down. Teams started averaging nearly 5 yards/carry against us. I don't think that was as much a reflection of Rosey being out as it was TB being on the field more often.

While KC Joyner has put a lot of work into his "stats", they are far from being the be all end all.

Also, I doubt the veracity of your statement that you watch each play of every game numerous times.

In the 11 games that Rosie played in and Bruschi and Seau rotated, the Pats averaged 4.07 YPC against. In the 8 games AFTER Colvin went down, forcing Seau and Bruschi to play full time, the YPC jumped to 4.56.

How can you say its not a reflection of Rosie being out but Bruschi being on the field more when they are in DIRECT correlation to one another. In fact, you could also point the the fact that Thomas was now responsible for setting the edge on that side and he didn't do a very good job with it.

If I was as myopic as you, yes, I'd blame it all on Bruschi. Luckily, I'm not and I can see that it was a result of several moves. Not just ONE.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

wow. i go offline for a few hours, and i return to see the debate is still running. What part of "tedy helps this defense" do you people not understand??????? obviously b.b. thinks he can. thats good enough for me. the rest of you can sit back hoping we sign every expensive free agent l.b. on the market, and then pi** and moan when we don't sign them

 

[Disco Volante]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

View 1 - Online Message Boarders
Teddy can't help us anymore.

View 2 - Five time Super Bowl champion, Bill Belichick
Teddy is worthy of being re-signed.

I'll go with view 2.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

Out of that list, only Green was a failure for the Pats.

Otis Smith played very well for the Pats. So did Phifer. Anthony Pleasant was key to the Pats 2001 SB victory. He was a starting DE for the Pats 4-3 alignment there.

I'm not sure how you can call Rick Lyle a guy that hung around too long. He was a JAG for the Pats. Nothing more. And he played sparingly. But he played well.

Agreed, with the added point that I don't know how this guy can consider Troy Brown of last year a liability when he never even suited up, let alone played. He was kept around in case of an emergency, and was never needed. It's impossible for a player to be a liability if he isn't even taking up a roster spot.

 

[PatsFan37]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

I agree that BB knows a lot more about talent than you and I. However, I do believe he has been a little to loyal at times to certain players. There is a decent list of "BB Guys" that hung around a little too long. Anthony Pleasant, Troy Brown last year, Otis Smith, Rick Lyle, Roman Phifer, Victor Green. Obviously some of these include their NYJ tenure, but it does show at times BB is hesitant to cut the proverbial cord from his personal favorites.

Wow, that's the first time I've heard that argument. From Bernie Kosar to Willie Mac to AV, from Branch to Graham to Givens, BB has a reputation for being a steely-eye son of a B, always doing what's best for the team. You don't think Willie Mac was a favorite? Of all people?

Sure, every once in a while he'll let someone drop-kick an extra point in a game that doesn't matter, but sentimental about keeping players on million-dollar contracts? Not in his job description.

Bru is here because he's a player. We haven't seen the contract, so don't jump the gun, but I'd be happy to see him as a first-off-the-bench backup or platooned with other ILBs. The MOST complex part of the D is at ILB. Tedy knows the playbook, and how.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

While KC Joyner has put a lot of work into his "stats", they are far from being the be all end all.

Also, I doubt the veracity of your statement that you watch each play of every game numerous times.

In the 11 games that Rosie played in and Bruschi and Seau rotated, the Pats averaged 4.07 YPC against. In the 8 games AFTER Colvin went down, forcing Seau and Bruschi to play full time, the YPC jumped to 4.56.

How can you say its not a reflection of Rosie being out but Bruschi being on the field more when they are in DIRECT correlation to one another. In fact, you could also point the the fact that Thomas was now responsible for setting the edge on that side and he didn't do a very good job with it.

If I was as myopic as you, yes, I'd blame it all on Bruschi. Luckily, I'm not and I can see that it was a result of several moves. Not just ONE.

In addition to your explanations, you could also blame it on linebacker fatigue. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that, when you can rotate 3 ILBs, they'll stay fresher and will therefore play at a higher level.

 

[Triumph]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

I have to agree with IA that tackles are a poor barometer to guage a player. And, I also ask myself why is TB coming back and what does he still bring?

I recall when Bruschi came back from the stroke in 05. During one game, he dove over the OL head first vs Miami (iirc) trying to sack the QB. It was like the same old Bruschi was back. In 06 and 07 I noticed Bruschi worn out towards the end of the season. I think he was so outstanding for so long, that a "good player" TB is sort of disapointing.

IMO, if NE had won SB42, Bruschi would be announcing his retirement. All the marbles are on this season, because I will bet any amount of money that 54 wont be back next season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

In addition to your explanations, you could also blame it on linebacker fatigue. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that, when you can rotate 3 ILBs, they'll stay fresher and will therefore play at a higher level.

shhh... .don't point out the obvious to him. He'll miss it anyways.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

View 1 - Online Message Boarders
Teddy can't help us anymore.

View 2 - Five time Super Bowl champion, Bill Belichick
Teddy is worthy of being re-signed.

I'll go with view 2.

View 1 - Online Message Boarders and 10 Billion Viewers
Kick the field goal on 4th and 13

View 2 - Five time Super Bowl champion, Bill Belichick
Screw it, I'm going for it.

I'll go with view 1.

Uhhh, hello???????? BB makes mistakes too.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

View 1 - Online Message Boarders and 10 Billion Viewers
Kick the field goal on 4th and 13

View 2 - Five time Super Bowl champion, Bill Belichick
Screw it, I'm going for it.

I'll go with view 1.

Uhhh, hello???????? BB makes mistakes too.

You'd be saying the same damn thing if BB called for the kick and Gostkowski missed it.

I don't understand why BB went for it, but it sure didn't lose them that game. ANd its pure ignorance if anyone implies that it did.

 

[marcus]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

Do you really think that BB has lost his marbles.
BB is not a sentimental guy.
If he thought TB was a liability he would not bring him back.

I tyhink BB has earne dthe benefit of the doubt.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

I don't mind Tedy coming back. What scares me is if he is the starter. Put me in the camp that thinks he's lost too much to be effective.

 

[richpats]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

Uhhh, hello???????? BB makes mistakes too.

Shhhhh! You don't want to wake the Belichick Defense Squad!

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

In my opinion, the guy is a liability whenever he is on the field.

His season tackle totals aside, the two sacks performance against the Browns, the bat down of a pass on 4th and goal in week 15 and his diving tip of a pass intended for Gates in the endzone during the AFC title game really didn't suggest to me that Tedy's a liability.

No, he's no longer the Pro Bowler, but I'm glad he's back because the Pats LB corp needs him.

 

[jmt57]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

The Pioli - BB formula has never allowed for keeping a player due him to being a sentimental coach or fan favorite. There is a maximum value placed on a player and a position. Pioli and BB must have a legitimate reason for signing Bruschi. Before we decide whether or not Bruschi should come back, I would ask who will replace him, and at what price? I haven't seen the contract details yet, but I'd be surprised if the Patriots didn't get a hometown discount from Bruschi. There's no way a draft pick in his first year is going to be better than Bruschi in this defensive scheme. While there are plenty of good OLB free agents this year, the only other ILB free agent starters are Landon Johnson and Mark Simoneau. If nothing else, keeping Bruschi will help in negotiations with these players.

Signing another player if he is a better value makes sense. Signing another player regardless of price, ability, or experience does not make sense.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

Okay, here's the thing. When Tedy had even more tackles, he was better (like say 2003, 2004). Now that he has fewer tackles, that coincides with the "lost a step" talk. You can say teams ran at a guy, you can tackles are an unofficial stat, but I think it's bullcrap. I think in football if you're a defensive player, especially a linebacker, it's good to tackle guys.

Arguments against a stat being "everything" are fine, but to me the argument falls apart when the best corner is never thrown at, and the best linebacker never makes a tackle. Come on. At some point actually making the play is worth having.

Tedy's still a starting linebacker and knows BB's system like the back of his hand. Your real complaint is he's a liability compared to himself when he was much younger. Just accept that we've got a proven, smart veteran in the middle of the D that can still get the job done. Sure he starts getting social security checks instead of game checks this year... but he can play

PFnV

 

[Fencer]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

Put me down for the consensus.

1. Bruschi is no longer a player of special ability or impact.
2. Bruschi is much better to have around than another team's JAG of comparable ability.

I wouldn't be shocked if #1 changed, actually. A guy can be minorly dinged up a couple of years in a row and then suddenly play better again if he's healthier for a year. But the base case is that his play continues more or less as it has been.

 

[Triumph]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

View 1 - Online Message Boarders and 10 Billion Viewers
Kick the field goal on 4th and 13

View 2 - Five time Super Bowl champion, Bill Belichick
Screw it, I'm going for it.

I'll go with view 1.

Uhhh, hello???????? BB makes mistakes too.

Brady made a mistake. Welker was wide open on the right sideline but Brady threw into double coverage.

 

[patriotspride]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

In my opinion, the guy is a liability whenever he is on the field. The number 1 problem with our defense is lack of speed. I honestly think opposing coaches love seeing TB out there. You can run at him, and he can no longer cover. We really missed by not drafting David Harris last year. I am not worried about losing Asante as long as we can add speed to the LB position. The NYG corners are below average, and look how good front 7 speed made them look. I know we run a different D (3-4), so speed on the D-Line is not a priority. Our D-Line is an ideal 3-4 line. The benefit of the 3-4 is having the potential for pass rushers coming from anywhere. When 2 of the four LB's can't run, you lose that threat, and your pass defense becomes very vulnerable. We need SPEED, SPEED, SPEED!!

apparently BB and pioli think Teddy can still contribute .why else would they bring him back? hes not a liability that's for sure.

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Re: What does Teddy do well anymore?

I thiink you are overestimating what his tackle totals mean. Watch the games (I have many times). Teams were running at him all year. Of course his tackle totals will be up there.

How many LB's has TB been able to teach our system? Beisel, Brown, Alexander, Woods, Mayes, Rogers, Mincey, etc. When has he ever shown the ability to be able to do this?

I am still waiting for 3 impact plays he made all year..

You might want to look to the inside 3 for why teams "ran at him" all year. When Bruschi has the opportunity to shed one block by a FB and make a tackle (as the 3-4 BB has set up is designed to promote) he is very effective, but with Seymore late to the game and still not the man he's been years past, they didn't get the same effect out of the front 3 eating up guards and tackles with double teams...this allows a guard or tackle to chip Tedy before the fullback and really hurts his effectiveness...Junior makes up for this with speed even at his age, but Tedy always had a front 3 to help protect him, this year it was less effective in many ways, but I expect next year with even a little LB rejuvenation to be similar to years past, and think Tedy has PLENTY left in his tank...hell, we didn't say much about Zach Thomas even though they're pretty much the same age and probably comparable in raw talent.