what do you think about Billy Sullivan and Pat Sullivan ?

[italian pat patriot]

i would like to hear Yr opinion

my one is that they really LOVED and had a STRONG passion for the Pats but infortunately not the money probably they needed

the big mistake probably was, for Billy Sullivan, is 'irish temperament'.

but my final vote is that i respect a lot them and i want to thanks their Family to started the Patriots and to kept the team in NE.

petty that they were unable to win a Super Bowl and petty that Billy Sullivan did not see our beautiful success in the recent years.

i think he would have been happy.

so: thks again to them !

thks to have created the Patriots and thanks for yr passion !

ps = difficult to forget Pat 'fighting' against the Raiders....
great !!!

 

[PatsRI]

I think they were good "start up" owners who did a good job when the league (AFL) was in its infancy. When the leagues mergered and the product grew it seemed that the Sullivans were slowly but surely overwhelmed by the business aspects. I wonder if Sullivan had the huge $ if he could have developed with the times. I appreciate everything they did but after Billy I don't think the team would have survived the sons anyway.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I'll always be grateful to them for starting the team here adn keeping it here.

Having said that, they were not good owners and very bad businessmen. It seems that when a choice between a right move and a wrong move they always made the wrong move.

Nothing personal againts them but we are very fortunate that Bob Kraft took over the team. He is a smart owner and does not let his ego get in his way as the Sullivans did.

 

[italian pat patriot]

I think that at the end of the story, sad, is that probably they also did not earn anything (they went in bankrupt as far as i know thanks to the Michael Jackson story) and they also did not win 1 Super Bowl (sad too).

But, again, i really respect them a lot and i consider anyway them a legend in our franchise.

Surely they had passion and love for the Pats.

They started the Patriots !

Respect (a lot of it) to them !!!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Slamming the Micks for "Irish Temperment". Sigh.
I'm thankful that the old man founded the club but it ends there. I suffered through decades of cheap management that frustrated any chances of serious winning. The idiot sons were worse. Yes, Kiam is clearly the worst owner. Remember Billy sold out to him, not Orthwein or Kraft. Because of that, we could well be without a team, watching the St Louis Patriots' Dynasty and having the hated Jets and Giants as our home team TV fare. Shudder.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Slamming the Micks for "Irish Temperment". Sigh.
I'm thankful that the old man founded the club but it ends there. I suffered through decades of cheap management that frustrated any chances of serious winning. The idiot sons were worse. Yes, Kiam is clearly the worst owner. Remember Billy sold out to him, not Orthwein or Kraft. Because of that, we could well be without a team, watching the St Louis Patriots' Dynasty and having the hated Jets and Giants as our home team TV fare. Shudder.

Forgot about that the Sullivans had a chance to sell the team to Bob Kraft instead of Kiam. But, they let personal dislike get in the way of sound business judgement.

 

[italian pat patriot]

Slamming the Micks for "Irish Temperment". Sigh.
I'm thankful that the old man founded the club but it ends there. I suffered through decades of cheap management that frustrated any chances of serious winning. The idiot sons were worse. Yes, Kiam is clearly the worst owner. Remember Billy sold out to him, not Orthwein or Kraft. Because of that, we could well be without a team, watching the St Louis Patriots' Dynasty and having the hated Jets and Giants as our home team TV fare. Shudder.

i do not know much abot Kiam and Orthwein excepted what i read on 'tales from the patriots sidelines' and that probably was allready enough.

anyway i think that Pat Sullivan was not so bad as you describe him.

personally i am very thankful to them : they had no money but faith and passion. not bad in my opinion. and if they were not there probably the Pats will never been playing...

 

[ilduce06410]

"Respect"?, Perhaps "Appreciate"

I think that at the end of the story, sad, is that probably they also did not earn anything (they went in bankrupt as far as i know thanks to the Michael Jackson story) and they also did not win 1 Super Bowl (sad too).

But, again, i really respect them a lot and i consider anyway them a legend in our franchise.

Surely they had passion and love for the Pats.

They started the Patriots !

Respect (a lot of it) to them !!!

I'm talikng about Billy Sullivan now, not his kid. The sister and the boys were 6 to 9 years old when Billy took the leap.
Billy Sullivan is the centerpiece of Patriots history. He is a cornerstone of the history of the wonderful AFL. You had to see it to appreciate it. The teams had recognizable stars, freewheeling teams AFL games were wide-open, passing, trick plays, opposed to the conservative NFL. AFL teams would do wacky promotional stuff that the staid NFL considered blasphemy. Billy also had a substantive role in the AFL-NFL merger, which was a stupendous deal at the time.
This was in an era before the corporate BS. the team owners actually owned, actually ran, their teams. If the teams had failed, many of these guys would have lost their houses, their cars. Unquestionably some of these owners RAN THEIR TEAM OUT OF THEIR CHECKBOOK.
So no Billy, No Patriots. He wasn't even a businessman, he did PR for Boston College. I can't see anyone else in New England taking a risk like that.
Hope I'm making clear how much courage this took.

 

[ilduce06410]

It was personal

Forgot about that the Sullivans had a chance to sell the team to Bob Kraft instead of Kiam. But, they let personal dislike get in the way of sound business judgement.

Personal dislike?
Yeak, Kraft wanted the team. So did Paul Fireman, CEO of Reebok. Both deals looked perfect for the team. Local guys, long-time fans, Big Money, wanted to bring the Patriots into the modern NFL.
Kiam wanted the team, some St Louis syndicate wanted the Patriots, the NFL itself was willing to buy the patriots in order to keep them in New England.
Meanwhile, back in Boston: The Patriots Fireman, and Kraft must have met. Somebody Said Something To Somebody.
Fireman withdrew immediately from his offer. Further, he has never shown any interest in sports franchises again. da Broons, Celtics have been sold since then. Fireman: Nothing.
Kraft got pissed. The relationship betwen Kraft and the Sullivans immediately became adversarial.Kraft bought the Stadium (Sullivan Stadium?), in open auction, out from under the Sullivans with an offerThe Sullivans did not to accept if Kraft was in the bidding group. The offer was so high no other bidder would touch it.
There was the stadium and, what? 1,000 acres of open parking lot. East of the stadium there was a long-defunct dog racing track (Owned by Eddie Andelman!). The only access was two-lane Route 1.
The property was worth maybe $70 million. A mercy bid would have been $100 million. Kraft bid $140 million and laughed crazily all the way to the closing.
Everyone thoought Kraft had completely stepped of the edge and was doing
"look! i can fly". to everyone's complete amazement, he celebrated and laughed crazily all the way to the closing.
hahahahahaha

 

[ilduce06410]

Pissah, You Remembah!

Slamming the Micks for "Irish Temperment". Sigh.
I'm thankful that the old man founded the club but it ends there. I suffered through decades of cheap management that frustrated any chances of serious winning. The idiot sons were worse. Yes, Kiam is clearly the worst owner. Remember Billy sold out to him, not Orthwein or Kraft. Because of that, we could well be without a team, watching the St Louis Patriots' Dynasty and having the hated Jets and Giants as our home team TV fare. Shudder.

The old man was probably the only guy north of Darien who would have taken the leap and bought a franchise in that completely wigged-out league. Remember: AL DAVIS WAS THE COMMISSIONER, the solid guy who would get the league on its feet.
You Had To Be Crazy to Do It.
Billy Sullivan Did It.
Ergo, Billy Sullivan Was Crazy.
Repeat After Me: Billy Sullivan Was Crazy.
Remember This. It Emerges Again Later in The Story:
Yous hould have seen some of the of the other owners: Lamar Hunt, for Example, the ketchup mogul, one of those "Texas Boys", Burnt-Orange Cadillac with Gangster Sidewalls, A Set of Longhorns on the Front of the Hood, a Bolnde "Doll" on his arm." And lamar Hunt fronted money to the League when they'd have gone kaput Without It.
He deserves to have his name on every edifice they can think of.
Some of these guys were the big pinky-ring guys, always at "Vegas". I cant describe what the photo opportunities at AFL ownwers meetings.
Remember, Al Davis was already into wearing the black, silver, and white ouuts.

 

[pats60]

I would build a statue of him in FOXBORO
He made the town well known all over the world.
Could have sold the team many times before the old stadium was built.
Boston threw him out of town. City councilers didnt want pats in BOSTON
I bought my first season ticket in 1960 and suffered threw BU field,harvard,
bc stadium, and fenway park.Today you guys and my sons have it easy
don`t have to worry about where they going to play or if they are
going to sell out.
WE all know what BOB Kraft means to the pats but if it wasnt for
Billy we`d have no patriots

 

[ilduce06410]

statue in foxboro, absolutely

I would build a statue of him in FOXBORO
He made the town well known all over the world.
Could have sold the team many times before the old stadium was built.
Boston threw him out of town. City councilers didnt want pats in BOSTON
I bought my first season ticket in 1960 and suffered threw BU field,harvard,
bc stadium, and fenway park.Today you guys and my sons have it easy
don`t have to worry about where they going to play or if they are
going to sell out.
WE all know what BOB Kraft means to the pats but if it wasnt for
Billy we`d have no patriots

Amen.
problem is, Something Was Said to Somebody back in what, 1992? Whatever it was, Paul Fireman withdrew from anything with major league sports again. Think on that. Kraft immediately became an Enemy. so the old stuff has to be put aside.
I don't know which kind of man Kraft is.
If he's one of those magnanimous guys, willing to let bygones go, there should be a Billy statue. I'd contribute to it I'd serve on a committe.
If Kraft is one of these guys who holds on to grudges (I do, some for 30 years) , the only statue you'll see of Billy will be in the men's room.

 

[pats60]

Amen.
problem is, Something Was Said to Somebody back in what, 1992? Whatever it was, Paul Fireman withdrew from anything with major league sports again. Think on that. Kraft immediately became an Enemy. so the old stuff has to be put aside.
I don't know which kind of man Kraft is.
If he's one of those magnanimous guys, willing to let bygones go, there should be a Billy statue. I'd contribute to it I'd serve on a committe.
If Kraft is one of these guys who holds on to grudges (I do, some for 30 years) , the only statue you'll see of Billy will be in the men's room.

Funny i can still remember the Boston Herald headline it was on a saturday
Firemen comes to rescue patriots. Show`s you can`t believe every thing you read

 

[Fanfrom1960]

The old man was probably the only guy north of Darien who would have taken the leap and bought a franchise in that completely wigged-out league. Remember: AL DAVIS WAS THE COMMISSIONER, the solid guy who would get the league on its feet.
You Had To Be Crazy to Do It.
Billy Sullivan Did It.
Ergo, Billy Sullivan Was Crazy.
Repeat After Me: Billy Sullivan Was Crazy.
Remember This. It Emerges Again Later in The Story:
Yous hould have seen some of the of the other owners: Lamar Hunt, for Example, the ketchup mogul, one of those "Texas Boys", Burnt-Orange Cadillac with Gangster Sidewalls, A Set of Longhorns on the Front of the Hood, a Bolnde "Doll" on his arm." And lamar Hunt fronted money to the League when they'd have gone kaput Without It.
He deserves to have his name on every edifice they can think of.
Some of these guys were the big pinky-ring guys, always at "Vegas". I cant describe what the photo opportunities at AFL ownwers meetings.
Remember, Al Davis was already into wearing the black, silver, and white ouuts.

Speaking of teams in trouble, the Raiders have just announced that they are lowering some ticket prices to $26, obviously tired of the embarrassment of not being able to sell out home game after home game. I'll get to watch more Raider games now!

Oh, Al Davis became the AFL commish in 1966. Original AFL commissioner was Joe Foss, whom I don't even remember. You have great recall of the old days. I appreciate it.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Bad buisnessmen, but very nice people that just did not know how to run a football team... Could have had 2 to 3 sb champions in that era, if they treated Fairbanks right...

 

[italian pat patriot]

I would build a statue of him in FOXBORO
He made the town well known all over the world.
Could have sold the team many times before the old stadium was built.
Boston threw him out of town. City councilers didnt want pats in BOSTON
I bought my first season ticket in 1960 and suffered threw BU field,harvard,
bc stadium, and fenway park.Today you guys and my sons have it easy
don`t have to worry about where they going to play or if they are
going to sell out.
WE all know what BOB Kraft means to the pats but if it wasnt for
Billy we`d have no patriots

compliments ! very well said. i am with you. 100%

 

[ilduce06410]

Here's One

Funny i can still remember the Boston Herald headline it was on a saturday
Firemen comes to rescue patriots. Show`s you can`t believe every thing you read

Do you remember that the Sullivan daughter, her name's right on the tip of my tongue, was engaged to be married to Barney Frank?
Remember that? the joyful couple got as far as announcing wedding plans before they were suddenly called off.
I love Barney, but........

 

[ilduce06410]

was Davis in control of the Raiders then?

Speaking of teams in trouble, the Raiders have just announced that they are lowering some ticket prices to $26, obviously tired of the embarrassment of not being able to sell out home game after home game. I'll get to watch more Raider games now!

Oh, Al Davis became the AFL commish in 1966. Original AFL commissioner was Joe Foss, whom I don't even remember. You have great recall of the old days. I appreciate it.

OK, thanks. I completely forgot about Joe Foss.
Still can't remember. Gotta look him up.
So then, was Davis in the league, or was he still in coaching?

 

[Fanfrom1960]

OK, thanks. I completely forgot about Joe Foss.
Still can't remember. Gotta look him up.
So then, was Davis in the league, or was he still in coaching?

Davis coached the Raiders in '63, 64 and 65, then turned it over to John Rauch when he became commish. I also forgot that the first Pats coach was Lou Saban, not Mike Holovak.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Great thread

duce, you're on a roll today!