What do we do regarding Hoyer?

[Metaphors]

Check out any scouting site and look at the prospects likely to be available in the 2nd round (even late). Then ask yourself if you would trade 1 year of Hoyer for 4 years of one of those prospects (and even gain a little cap space). Would anyone really want 1 year of Hoyer over Brandon Thompson or Chase Minnifield or Harrison Smith or Brian Quick or comparable player? Can't imagine. If someone will part with a 2nd round pick, buh-bye Brian...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Remember the reports of how the Pats loved Guttierez?

Paying almost $3M for Hoyer, plus The Hammer and then Brady is a LOT of cap space spent on QB

EDIT: Correction upon research vs top of the head emotion, The Hammer has a tiny cap hit ~ $500K

Hammer spent the entire season inactive and roaming the sidelines in sweats and a bb cap, mostly yukking it up with the TE's or 5th string WR's under 25. He doesn't even chart games. Bill lets Stephen do that... He was practice player of the week once all season, the week we played Sanchez the first time...LOL Hoyer while wearing a headset and in on all the calls and conferences and breaking up sidline skirmishes between the QB and the OC and taking all the second string snaps and a couple of the first string ones, was practice player of the week 3 times. Did you see him secure that TE yardage title for Gronk in mop up? He runs the offense the way the OC and HC call it and want it run, whether it succeeds or not. Something Cassel also was adept at and Gutz and KOC never mastered.

You have to take media comments in context. Rap was hearing about how high they are on Hoyer all season and from multiple sources. Reiss was told by someone in the FO or ownership during his first off season that they loved Gutz work ethic...and every lemming mediot in town picked that up and ran with it as they love Gutz, he's lapped Cassel and Cassel is toast... Then they drafted KOC and that just seemed to underscore the myth. Gutz let KOC spook him, Matt never did. Gutz failed to improve, if anything he got worse - reverting to form under pressure and trying too hard to make something out of nothing when all Bill wanted to see him do was run the damn offense so he could assess the whole unit or personnel grouping. Gutz was trying to win the game to secure position. That's not what Bill is looking for in pre season. And all that got him was cut. Same fate that befell KOC the following season when the UDFA replaced him and became the lone backup to a HOF QB coming off an ACL injury. As he was again in 2010. That tells me all I need to know.

Mallet was drafted because we could, and it was a value option in a slot lacking an alternative value like a trade back, not because we were in the market (although McElroy would have been sweet but the JETS landed him as a result). Mallett isn't a natural Brady backup or system fit here. Whether he's an NFL caliber QB remains to be seen. Whether they can find a way to boost his stock without doing something Bill hasn't done since the days of Rohan Davey (showcase packages for a backup) remains to be seen. Didn't work then, either.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Here's one thread that's a blast from the past:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/101977-i-can-not-see-how-gutierrez-not-far-2-qb-now.html


Good times...

I blame the guy who posted this...

"Ummm.... how many regular season or playoff games has Brady missed since Cassel has been on the team?"

For jinxing Brady's injury just 2 weeks later!

 

[BradyBranch39]

FWIW, the Saints reached a 1-year agreement with Chase Daniel.

 

[IllegalContact]

It's easier to just say "I don't like Mallett, never have"

Hammer spent the entire season inactive and roaming the sidelines in sweats and a bb cap, mostly yukking it up with the TE's or 5th string WR's under 25. He doesn't even chart games. Bill lets Stephen do that... He was practice player of the week once all season, the week we played Sanchez the first time...LOL Hoyer while wearing a headset and in on all the calls and conferences and breaking up sidline skirmishes between the QB and the OC and taking all the second string snaps and a couple of the first string ones, was practice player of the week 3 times. Did you see him secure that TE yardage title for Gronk in mop up? He runs the offense the way the OC and HC call it and want it run, whether it succeeds or not. Something Cassel also was adept at and Gutz and KOC never mastered.

You have to take media comments in context. Rap was hearing about how high they are on Hoyer all season and from multiple sources. Reiss was told by someone in the FO or ownership during his first off season that they loved Gutz work ethic...and every lemming mediot in town picked that up and ran with it as they love Gutz, he's lapped Cassel and Cassel is toast... Then they drafted KOC and that just seemed to underscore the myth. Gutz let KOC spook him, Matt never did. Gutz failed to improve, if anything he got worse - reverting to form under pressure and trying too hard to make something out of nothing when all Bill wanted to see him do was run the damn offense so he could assess the whole unit or personnel grouping. Gutz was trying to win the game to secure position. That's not what Bill is looking for in pre season. And all that got him was cut. Same fate that befell KOC the following season when the UDFA replaced him and became the lone backup to a HOF QB coming off an ACL injury. As he was again in 2010. That tells me all I need to know.

Mallet was drafted because we could, and it was a value option in a slot lacking an alternative value like a trade back, not because we were in the market (although McElroy would have been sweet but the JETS landed him as a result). Mallett isn't a natural Brady backup or system fit here. Whether he's an NFL caliber QB remains to be seen. Whether they can find a way to boost his stock without doing something Bill hasn't done since the days of Rohan Davey (showcase packages for a backup) remains to be seen. Didn't work then, either.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

The difference is about right (~$800K), but the tenders aren't:

First-round tender $2.74M
Second-round tender $1.93M
Original-round tender $1.26M

I bow to your superior research, I knew the difference wasn't that large.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

FWIW, the Saints reached a 1-year agreement with Chase Daniel.

They likely didnt want to pay him the 2nd round tender amount and as an UDFA the low tender was meaningless. So they paid him a hair above it including a $300K signing bonus. He's a little different than Hoyer in that he bounced around a little including on and off NO roster and PS for two years before beating out Patrick Ramsey for the #2 job in NO in 2010. He says he believes he will benefit from one more year under Brees and Payton, and with a holdout looming by Brees he will get some one on one attention and possibly even most of the PS starts if Brees digs his heels in. 1 year $1.3M deal. Hoyer is worth more after 3 years as the #2 here.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Per Adam Caplan on twitter league sources confirm Hoyer has received the second round tender from the NEP.

 

[IllegalContact]

Per Adam Caplan on twitter league sources confirm Hoyer has received the second round tender from the NEP.

yes....yes.....a clear sign of how much the pats (or as you put it 'we') hate mallett and regret ever picking him

 

[MoLewisrocks]

yes....yes.....a clear sign of how much the pats (or as you put it 'we') hate mallett and regret ever picking him

I never said either. Implying such is just the fall back for the weak minded poster who can't comprehend that there can be rational reasons for divergent opinion. So they lash out at individuals whose opinion diverges from theirs by basically calling them haters. Unlike many here I don't actually hate any player. Just don't always see them as fits for a variety of reasons.

 

[IllegalContact]

I never said either. Implying such is just the fall back for the weak minded poster who can't comprehend that there can be rational reasons for divergent opinion. So they lash out at individuals whose opinion diverges from theirs by basically calling them haters. Unlike many here I don't actually hate any player. Just don't always see them as fits for a variety of reasons.

you call that 'lashing out'?

and yet he is with the pats, and the most likely reason is that the pats organization simply lacks your wrong......errr.....expertise

you've clearly shown that you have a personal dislike of the player and take it from there.......I don't care either way about mallett.....if he works out, great, if not, there will be someone else. your constant railing about him shows your dislike. there are other players who are less worhty of their positions on the pats, but all of them combined don't recieve the negativity you put forth about mallett

 

[Patspsycho]

Hoyer has received a 2nd round tender, according to Reiss.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I do not personally dislike any player on this team. I have opinions, and in some cased strong ones, on whether certain players constitute a good fit for this team, and in some cases i had those opinions long before the player was added to the roster.

Mallet simply doesn't strike me as the prototypical Patriots QB in the Belichick era. Brady of course is that player to a T. Bledsoe wasn't that player either, even though he certainly was a starting caliber talent and a franchise QB eventually for 3 teams over the course of his career. Could Mallet be that player? Hell yeah... I believe that was why he was drafted at the end of the third round when Bill couldn't find a team willing to trade him value for the pick that exceeded a QB whom, while he was not targeted by this team, they had a first round grade on in what they obviously saw as a piss poor QB class. Those who believe he was chosen as the potential heir apparent are engaging in revisionist history or oddly wishful thinking. Watching him perform last pre season, albeit without the benefit of a full off season (which the CBA has now changed drastically anyway) but with a full TC I simply saw another, albeit apparently more physically gifted, version of Gutz and KOC. It wasn't arm strength or inability to make all the throws in college or in shorts that resulted in their not hanging on as even Brady backups here. It was lack of poise and discipline under pressure and poor decision making and failure to develop any potential they may have had or appeared to exhibit in their college careers in that regard at the next level. Something that isn't uncommon amongst draftees selected to play the position that is the most difficult to project from one level to the next...

 

[TomPatriot]

Report: Hoyer gets second-round tender

 

[IllegalContact]

so you're saying that you saw what brady was going to be after his rookie year, where he also did nothing?

nobody knew brady was that player at that time.

you have personal knowledge that BB was trying to move that pick and without a taker, just took mallett because it was the thing to do?

so bledsoe wasn't that player, but with BB's blessing, gave him a huge extension?

your whole picture is reverse engineered

I do not personally dislike any player on this team. I have opinions, and in some cased strong ones, on whether certain players constitute a good fit for this team, and in some cases i had those opinions long before the player was added to the roster.

Mallet simply doesn't strike me as the prototypical Patriots QB in the Belichick era. Brady of course is that player to a T. Bledsoe wasn't that player either, even though he certainly was a starting caliber talent and a franchise QB eventually for 3 teams over the course of his career. Could Mallet be that player? Hell yeah... I believe that was why he was drafted at the end of the third round when Bill couldn't find a team willing to trade him value for the pick that exceeded a QB whom, while he was not targeted by this team, they had a first round grade on in what they obviously saw as a piss poor QB class. Those who believe he was chosen as the potential heir apparent are engaging in revisionist history or oddly wishful thinking. Watching him perform last pre season, albeit without the benefit of a full off season (which the CBA has now changed drastically anyway) but with a full TC I simply saw another, albeit apparently more physically gifted, version of Gutz and KOC. It wasn't arm strength or inability to make all the throws in college or in shorts that resulted in their not hanging on as even Brady backups here. It was lack of poise and discipline under pressure and poor decision making and failure to develop any potential they may have had or appeared to exhibit in their college careers in that regard at the next level. Something that isn't uncommon amongst draftees selected to play the position that is the most difficult to project from one level to the next...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I never said that. Belichick did see what Brady was even during his rookie season as he moved him up to #2 on the depth chart before that first season ended. Then even though he signed Damon Huard as a veteran backup, he made Brady the #2 out of camp and admits that he had actually had a better camp and pre season than Bledsoe who remained the starter because of experience <wink, wink>. Bledsoe's deal was a Kraft production, in the works before Bill ever got here. Because Bledsoe had to have a Favre level deal... Luckily Bill saw to it the deal was structured in a way that didn't tie him to the player. $6M dead cap, which in exchange for a first and the QB your in house manuel was written to portray - I guess that was just happenstance. Bledsoe's days were numbered the day Bill accepted the job offer here. Well documented.

 

[IllegalContact]

using hindsight, you can paint all kinds of pictures, but that's not necessarily the mindset before particular events.

things weren't on a set of rails the way you make them out to be.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Hoyer update from Breer

Twitter

Says Hoyer to explore other opportunities

Will he get any? Will the Pats take a 2nd or 3rd? Will they match?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hoyer update from Breer

Twitter

Says Hoyer to explore other opportunities

Will he get any? Will the Pats take a 2nd or 3rd? Will they match?

It won't be a third. It will be a second and only if he signs an offer sheet. And he won't sign just any offer sheet, it would have to be one that pays him minimum starter money thereby insuring him an opportunity to start. Otherwise he waits and sees what develops after another season here. If they like this kid as much as reports indicate and believe he can be a starter they won't stand in his way because they know his chances of starting here beyond as short term insurance are slim because of that Brady guy.

RFA's can't begin to shop themselves or be signed to offer sheets before Saturday. Then they have until 4/20 to continue to test their market. After that they can only sign their tender before June 1 or risk it being replaced with a lower one as happened to Mankins. If Hoyer doesn't get any offers he likes he will sign his tender and be back at work when the off season program commences in April and at OTA's in May and June and when camp opens in July because he won't want to lose ground and he will again be in a contract year.

There are a limited number of teams currently in the market for a starting QB ergo potential teams who would pay a second and a contract for Hoyer. And their seconds are high (and you have to have the pick to make the offer and it can only be your own or a higher one). Cleveland which is also his home town team might be the only one. They lost out on the RGIII sweepstakes. Now they are in the Matt Flynn sweepstakes. If that doesn't pan out they could decide to roll the dice on Tannehill or Weeden in the draft. Or target someone like Kolb if AZ lands Manning or someone like Hasselbeck if Tenn does. Seattle is in a similar boat. Denver might be if they don't land the only guy who could unseat Tebow, but I doubt Hoyer would see the upside to entering that fray.

And there are always the collection of formerly failed starters who will take short term deals for any shot and require no draft compensation like Henne with whom he will be competing. So in other words, his RFA market is beyond limited at this juncture.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

First off, NOBODY is signing Hoyer for the second round tender. I think it was a samrt move by the Pats to put a second round tender on him, but I'm sure that they are not thinking that anyone will offer him a contract at that price.

I could see the Pats working a sign and trade with Hoyer, have him sign the tender or a 2-3 year contract and then trade him for say a 4th round pick (or some combination of late round picks). I'm fine with Mallet being the back-up.