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What DB do you like?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by carolinatony, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. carolinatony

    carolinatony Rookie

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    We all know we still need a better pass rush but lets be real, Our secondary is one of the worst in the league.
    Anyone you see out there that can make a impact if we draft late 20's?

    WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: T.J. McDonald
    has us taking Safety USC T.J. McDonald, 6-3/205

    Career Recap: McDonald made his presence felt in his first season as a starter in 2010. He led USC in tackles with 89, including three tackles for a loss, four passes broken up, three interceptions and a blocked punt. He was named an All-Pac-10 Second-Team selection. McDonald then had a solid junior year with 67 tackles with three interceptions, two passes broken up and a blocked kick. He had two interceptions against Arizona quarterback Nick Foles.

    McDonald is a hard hitter and physical defender. He drew a half-game suspension for a hit during USC's triple overtime loss to Stanford. McDonald could have been a late first-round or second-round pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, but decided to return for his senior campaign.
  2. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Word. Jordan will be an All Pro, and his versatility is unreal.

    Give me Bjoern Werner or Jesse Williams and Jordan, and there will be no reason the Pats' D shouldn't be doing what Seattle's D did to Green Bay last night on a regular basis.
  4. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    Jonathan Banks looks as good as any corner in the nation, even David Amerson.

    We know how much BB loves his SEC guys too.....
  5. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Improve the pass rush. DE in Round 1. I'm leaning towards letting Chung walk. He just can't play the ball. Do you try McCourty at safety for a year before allowing him to walk also? I like Kenny Vaccaro from Texas as a S if you want to keep McCourty at cb. In Round 2. Then, hit the ol.
  6. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey
    Kyle Fuller, Viginia Tech. A Junior but plays like Dre Kirkpatrick with better coverage skills. Also like Florida's Matt Elam as a safety.
  7. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    He's the ultimate chess piece, the Aaron Hernandez of the defense.
  8. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    My worry is that he's someone without a position. There's certain yardsticks BB likes from his defensive starters on the front 7 and most of those involve being big enough to seal the edge and defend the run and that's where I think Jordan falls down as a Pats prospect. Sure, he'd be great as a rotational "chess piece" player but I'm not sure we take one of those in the first two rounds and Jordan with his athleticism probably won't make it past pick 64.
  9. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    Yeah that's certainly a possibility, but he also likes length, versatility, and athleticism. Maybe BB will draft him as a CB. He's the perfect mold of a player to shut down the Jimmy Grahams of the NFL. We are probably going to need a new slot corner when Arrington gets paid.

    He's probably better suited as an OLB in a 3-4, than a DE in a 4-3 like the Pats, but if there's a coach in the league I'd like to see get a player like Jordan, it's BB.

    I figure Jordan can play DE in the 42 and 41, slot CB in the 42 and 41, money back in the 42, MLB in the 41, and a sub-rusher in any defense. That's plenty of time on the field without a set position.
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The NFL has many players who didn't work out as pure fits one place only to succeed spectacularly elsewhere. I love the comparison of Jordan as a defensive Aaron Hernandez. He's a guy who can be moved all over the field to create mayhem, even if he doesn't necessarily quite fit one place. I think he could be one of the biggest impact players in the NFL.
  11. Avenger

    Avenger Rookie

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    Daimion Stafford, S, Nebraska, one of the most underrated defenders in the country. Hard hitter, forces fumbles. Has a bit of Rodney Harrison in him.
  12. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    Roger Goodell is my nomination for DB of the Millenium. :)
  13. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 Rookie

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    JORDAN is 6'6. 240. he can easily put on 20-25 pounds and still maintain speed. what they should do is draft him, make him add weight. get him to 260. in our 4-3 he could line up opposite of jones. hes so versatile and athletic he can stand up in a 2 point stance. and i would honestly run a 2-4-5 where jones and jordan are on the outside an then you kick mayo and hightower inside. and spikes can get a breather cuz he sucks in pass coverage. imagine all the disguising that could be done with the versatility of our players.
  14. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Well I just got hard...
  15. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As a not-so-minor point, McCourty's under contract through 2014.
  16. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    I'd say two things to that:

    1. I think it's a moot discussion anyway because I'd be amazed if Jordan doesn't go top 10. If Melvin Ingram can go at 15 based largely upon his athleticism, Jordan who is more athletic and doesn't suffer from the main negative against Ingram which was his lack of length (quite the opposite), then Jordan should go a lot higher.

    2. I question how much BB values versatility on defense. He's very rigid in his approach to the front 7 - size, gap integrity, ability to stop the run and as good and exciting a player as Jordan is, those are probably the weakest elements to his game. Admittedly, the other attribute BB values is length which Jordan has in spades.

    One caveat to the the above. Jordan is fairly unique and that is something that may well be attractive to BB. Problem is, that will be attractive to plenty of other GM's too, particularly those running 3-4's for which Jordan is ideally suited as an OLB.

    It's funny, for the last two or three years, the draft classes have been pretty poor for two gap 3-4 teams which I think precipitated the Patriot's switch to our hybrid 4-3. And then this draft class comes along and it's chock full of 3-4 talent. A 3-4 GM fortunate enough to have seven picks in the first three rounds could build a quality whole new front 7 from this draft alone.*

    Imagine:

    DE: John Jenkins
    DT: Jesse Williams
    DE: Jonathan Hankins
    OLB: Dion Jordan
    ILB: Shayne Skov
    ILB: Alec Ogletree
    OLB: Chase Thomas

    And that's ignoring the likes of Jarvis Jones, Mingo, Lotulelei, Montgomery and Teo.

    * Obviously this scenario is unrealistic, I'm just trying to illustrate why 3-4 teams might look upon this draft class as a way to make hay while the sun shines and why ideal 3-4 talent will be snapped up.
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Melvin Ingram went #18 overall, FWIW. As for Jordan going top 10, it's possible, and I'd guess he's worthy, but there's a lot of potential competition - Star Lotulelei, Johnathan Hankins, Barkevious Mingo, Jarvis Jones, Sam Montgomery, Bjoern Werner. That's 6 defensive players alone. It's going to be tough for anyone to crack the top 10.

    Jordan's most obvious "fit" is as a 3-4 hybrid LB, which would put him in direct competiton with Mingo, Jones and possibly Montgomery. I think that Jordan's "uniqueness" may make him a little hard to categorize, which could keep his draft stock down just a bit. But not much.

    Great list.
  18. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 Rookie

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    right now, jordan is going in the 2nd half of the first round at the earliest. i expect that he could shoot up to the top 10, but right now i think he goes in the 20s. as for his stock dropping because pf position questions, i think that is wrong. he is very versatile. he can drop back in coverage effectively, and is also effective in the 3 point stance. he could play both DE and OLB in the NFL. right now he projects better as an OLB because he is about 240. but hes also 6'6 so he can easily add weight and get to 260 or 265 and still hold the speed and versatility
  19. ZoisKing

    ZoisKing Rookie

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    This board is on a tear over Jordan. No more obvious then when a thread is labeled "What DB do you like?", and we're talking about ends...

    I'm a fan of Vaccarro and Shawn Williams, for the sake of sticking to the OP's topic.
  20. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm also a Vaccaro fan. I'm a huge Tavon Austin fan, and Vaccaro did a pretty good job in the slot on Austin. And this is a safety.
  21. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    Not sure what your talking about. I'm literally watching him play cornerback right now.
  22. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 Rookie

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    i like vacarro too but hes going to go before we pick
  23. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    I'e been watching some safety play recently and here are some quick thoughts on some of the guys I've watched.

    Eric Reid

    A lesser version of Mark Barron. Excellent when the plays in front of him. Very good angles in run support - able to jump on passes in his zone but I wouldn't trust him in man coverage on nimble TE's or slot guys. As a run support safety or the last line of defense guy in cover 1 or 2, he's worth a first rounder. However, not convinced he is when it comes to the Patriots system.

    Kenny Vaccaro


    Really conflicted here. I know a lot of people like him a lot. He's very athletic and is one of the better cover safeties in the draft. I think he's probably the number one safety in the draft but I cannot get all that interested in him. He takes some really bad angles both in run support and pass coverage and I think he relies too much on his athleticism and less on football smarts. I would be neither happy or disappointed to get him in the first round. Just can't get behind him in the same way some do on this site and at NEPatriotsdraft.

    Tony Jefferson

    The best coverage safety in the draft but he's a really bad tackler - plays very soft. I thought he might be the better fit, but I'm really not interested now.

    Robert Lester

    Because of my Barron fixation last year, I got to watch a lot of Lester. He's about as meh! as it gets. He's just OK. Ok in pass coverage, OK in instincts, OK in run support. I doubt he will become a regular starter and I'm not that keen on the Patriots drafting him.

    TJ McDonald

    Has terrific length and when I watch him, I see his length and want him for the Pats. But then I see his stiffness and general weakness in coverage and don't see a safety that can necessarily improve our secondary.

    Matt Elam

    Biiig hitter! Love watching him play and he's shown that he can cover at the college level. Just worried that he'll be Patrick Chung at the next level basically. Wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted him because there's a lot to like and hopefully he'd become the better Patrick Chung.

    John Boyett

    Oregon safety, injured for the year. If he checks out medically he could be really interesting as a late round option. He's a Patrick Chung/ Harrison Smith cross and as a late round option he'd be a very good pick even if he only ever provides depth for us.


    My two favourites so far:

    LaMarcus Joyner

    Personally I think he's got the best instincts of any draft eligible safety. The only safety I think worth taking ahead of Joyner if he declares is Vaccaro. Size limitations be damned (5'8") - Joyner would be an automatic upgrade to our secondary.

    Malcolm Bronson

    Only seen one game and he's now injured for the rest of the season. I absolutely loved the tape I saw. Hits like a train, gets up in run support very quickly, has excellent range in coverage and did I say hits like a train? Draft him! Even if it's only for the practice squad initially.



    Edit - Draft Bronson this year in the seventh, draft Joyner and Sunseri next year and we'll never give up a deep pass again because no receiver would want to mess with those three.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  24. Luxusdk

    Luxusdk Rookie

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    Vaccaro is senior, pretty sure he's there at april ;)
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  25. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    I meant Joyner - can see why you read it the other way.
  26. Luxusdk

    Luxusdk Rookie

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    Yeah ok - Im at the point with safetys and corners, that BB should give a **** about there run support, aslong they'r fast and can cover. Really like the big size corner's Seattle use. They might not be the best in run support, but they cover the backfield.
    With safetys, i have it like rbs - Size ain't importent. Speed, leaping and agility. The run support safetys are out dated, a bonus skill. But aslong we have BB that won't change.
    BB loves Ed Reed, look at him, he's not a great run support, but you have to account for him. Really haven't figured why BB can't see that :bricks:
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  27. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Three things on run support:

    1) BB values it very highly - above pass defense so it matters whether we like it or not

    2) Without access to all-22 tape, it's mostly what we amateurs get to see of safety play

    3) Which isn't a problem for me because it tells me a lot about football intelligence and instincts.
  28. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    mike haynes......
  29. Luxusdk

    Luxusdk Rookie

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    But move a step back and look at it from another point of view. Either you have a front who stop the run and a backfield vs cast or you have a pass rushing front and a backfield there can support vs the run. Right now we have RUN AND RUN. This is old out dated football. Look at giants. They have a pass front have run back field basicly, they'll beat us 8/10 times.
  30. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

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    Interesting. Send your complains to:

    Bill Belichick's Trash Can
    New England Patriots
    One Patriot Place
    Foxborough, MA 02035

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