What could the Pats get for trading Brian Hoyer?

[Triumph]

Well then he must have been super human considering the fact he didn't play the game in San Diego.

That was the game he was out because he had surgery for appendix removal.

Thanks for proving my point.

So much for the intense study.

BTW, ya might want to review 2006. The whole year of poor play for R'berger was blamed on his appendix surgery. Ya might want to review

You brought up the SD game.

Here it is San Diego Chargers at Kansas City Chiefs - September 13th, 2010 - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Which is one more than Brady had thrown when he took over for Drew Bledsoe. See, it's not Madden and you have to know what you are looking for or at. When it comes to QB oddly most people here still don't get it. Draft scouting and draft selection and wide spread perception are meaningless. Thank God...

They have yet to figure out how to quantify much less measure what ultimately matters. Here's how Cassel stacked up against a lot of stud QB's and first rounders last season. Did he have a lousy game against Baltimore in the playoff's? Yup. Who hasn't had a stinker or three like that in the group. Ben played worse in his first Superbowl, only he was surrounded by a better team as he had been from the day he was drafted and they won in spite of him. Baltimore won with a JAG game manager in 2000. Flacco who is whining about his contract already hasn't been able to get a similar team nearly as far... Ryan landed in a tough spot too and has done just about as well as the kid who sat behind two clowns who haven't done nearly as well to date...one's a bust and the other seemingly a quitter after being taken at the top of their respective drafts.

You know when I knew for sure that Cassel could be a starting caliber QB in this league if he just got a shot? When he came in against Miami and we still lost... You know when BB knew he'd made the right decision in playing Brady over a healthy Bledsoe? When we played the Rams and still lost...

2010 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

 

[Snake Eyes]

Based on what? His 1 td pass vs a floundering Miami team.

Hoyer has played in garbage time after the game was already won.



All his 2010 completions came vs Miami.

Try answering my question: does it make more sense to hire Hoyer or one of the 1st round picks if your job depends on the team winning? I'd rather the guy who has proven success, even if it's relatively limited.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

You brought up the SD game.

Here it is San Diego Chargers at Kansas City Chiefs - September 13th, 2010 - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Thanks for proving my point.

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

You picked the first game of the year as your proof?

Geesh, bother to look at the rest of the season (that's the other games)? Like the game the Chiefs played without him ( in San Diego).

Seriously, why an I not shocked nobody has picked you up as a football analyst.

 

[Shelterdog]

Try answering my question: does it make more sense to hire Hoyer or one of the 1st round picks if your job depends on the team winning? I'd rather the guy who has proven success, even if it's relatively limited.

If I were running an NFL team I'd actually go for a Hoyer type, but that just isn't what NFL team actually do. Maybe it's because of player potential, maybe it's for marketing reasons, but they'd rather draft Dalton or Ponder than trade for a Hoyer/Sorgi type.

 

[Snake Eyes]

If I were running an NFL team I'd actually go for a Hoyer type, but that just isn't what NFL team actually do. Maybe it's because of player potential, maybe it's for marketing reasons, but they'd rather draft Dalton or Ponder than trade for a Hoyer/Sorgi type.

I know, and it's beyond stupid. When they draft a Cam Newton they're committing to a ton of guaranteed money, taking someone like Hoyer means relatively little out of pocket expense. You also mitigate your risk by having a guy who has proven he can be a professional as opposed to Vince Young, who gets into fights at strip clubs because someone disrespects his college team.

 

[Triumph]

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

You picked the first game of the year as your proof?

It is what it is. Chiefs were home with weeks to prepare.

Geesh, bother to look at the rest of the season (that's the other games)? Like the game the Chiefs played without him ( in San Diego).

Brodie Croyle has never won an NFL game. This is news?

Trying to make the case that KC would have won with Cassel is weak. SD played much better as the season went on.

Seriously, why an I not shocked nobody has picked you up as a football analyst.

Im certain youre not one either.

 

[Triumph]

Try answering my question: does it make more sense to hire Hoyer or one of the 1st round picks if your job depends on the team winning? I'd rather the guy who has proven success, even if it's relatively limited.

What proven success are we talking about?

He doesnt even own a SB ring as a back up.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

It is what it is. Chiefs were home with weeks to prepare.



Brodie Croyle has never won an NFL game. This is news?

Trying to make the case that KC would have won with Cassel is weak. SD played much better as the season went on.



Im certain youre not one either.

Yup a team goes from 2-14 to double digit wins and the one game they don't have MC they lose due to historically bad offense......and it doesn't mean anything.

I bet next you will want to explain how to fit round pegs in square holes.

Does this mean 2+2 actually equals 5?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Hoyer has thrown 1 TD in the NFL.

Kind of repeating myself but again, that's 1 more than Whitehurst or Henson threw prior to being traded.

I'm not saying Hoyer is a sure-fire starter or Pro Bowler. I'm not even saying a team SHOULD make that deal. And I don't think a lot of teams would be interested. But he's certainly not a significantly worse prospect than Whitehurst was prior to the trade. He could be worth a lot more to a QB-needy team that didn't draft one, and misses out on Kolb/McNabb. And he's certainly no worse than some of the QBs that started games last season.

John Skelton? Max Hall? Derek Anderson? And that's just the Cardinals QB depth chart.

 

[dex13]

more than likely a 5th with the possibility of upgrading to a fourth depending on playing time.

 

[Triumph]

Yup a team goes from 2-14 to double digit wins and the one game they don't have MC they lose due to historically bad offense......and it doesn't mean anything.

Have you ever seen Brodie Croyle play? Of couse Cassel is better than him.

I bet next you will want to explain how to fit round pegs in square holes.

Does this mean 2+2 actually equals 5?

It means the way to beat the Chiefs is to shutdown their running game and force Matt Cassel to beat you.

 

[Triumph]

Which is one more than Brady had thrown when he took over for Drew Bledsoe. See, it's not Madden and you have to know what you are looking for or at. When it comes to QB oddly most people here still don't get it. Draft scouting and draft selection and wide spread perception are meaningless. Thank God...

They have yet to figure out how to quantify much less measure what ultimately matters. Here's how Cassel stacked up against a lot of stud QB's and first rounders last season. Did he have a lousy game against Baltimore in the playoff's? Yup. Who hasn't had a stinker or three like that in the group. Ben played worse in his first Superbowl, only he was surrounded by a better team as he had been from the day he was drafted and they won in spite of him. Baltimore won with a JAG game manager in 2000. Flacco who is whining about his contract already hasn't been able to get a similar team nearly as far... Ryan landed in a tough spot too and has done just about as well as the kid who sat behind two clowns who haven't done nearly as well to date...one's a bust and the other seemingly a quitter after being taken at the top of their respective drafts.

You know when I knew for sure that Cassel could be a starting caliber QB in this league if he just got a shot? When he came in against Miami and we still lost... You know when BB knew he'd made the right decision in playing Brady over a healthy Bledsoe? When we played the Rams and still lost...

2010 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

His 58 completion percentage isnt that good. It puts him with the McNabbs and Sanchez's of this league. What put Cassel in the top 10 was that he didnt throw many INTs. In that respect he did great.

This season will really be a test for Cassel when the Chiefs play the upper echelon talent of the NFL.

 

[Triumph]

Cassel walked into a hot mess that remains at best a work in progress. Haley may prove to be the worst choice Pioli made in his effort to replicate the system. As for QB's, give me a guy who can manage the game over some measurables knucklehead who can't be taught or bothered to any day at any price. Teams backed off of Cassel because of ignorant misinformed media fueled perception he was not only a product of the system but hanging on here by a thread in the presence of such potential talents as KOC and Matt Gutierrez...

Now we are going to blame Haley if Cassel plays poorly?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Now we are going to blame Haley if Cassel plays poorly?

Haley remains the weakest link in Pioli's plan to recreate the system in KC. He nearly got Cassel killed in '09 trying to impress us all with a winning mindset in the midst of a total rebuild. Pioli brought in reinforcements for 2010 and Haley butted heads with the guy who coordinated Brady's early career to the tune of three rings. Now Scott's let him hire a puppet OC and we're back to it's all about Haley... I understand Pioli had to take the best available talent to fit the system when he selected Haley. But this will be a make or break season for the first time HC and I don't like how that sets up for the team... It flies in the face of rule #1 in this system that no one individual is bigger than the team. Haley doesn't have the temperement or the foundation that Belichick brought to the table here. Scott needs to be careful of treating him as if he does.

 

[Triumph]

Haley remains the weakest link in Pioli's plan to recreate the system in KC. He nearly got Cassel killed in '09 trying to impress us all with a winning mindset in the midst of a total rebuild. Pioli brought in reinforcements for 2010 and Haley butted heads with the guy who coordinated Brady's early career to the tune of three rings. Now Scott's let him hire a puppet OC and we're back to it's all about Haley... I understand Pioli had to take the best available talent to fit the system when he selected Haley. But this will be a make or break season for the first time HC and I don't like how that sets up for the team... It flies in the face of rule #1 in this system that no one individual is bigger than the team. Haley doesn't have the temperement or the foundation that Belichick brought to the table here. Scott needs to be careful of treating him as if he does.

Weis and Haley did not get along from the very beginning is what I have heard. Similar personalities dont mix some times. They were fighting in training camp, so it started brewing there until the pressure blew the lid off. In Weis's short time in KC, he built a reputation as an angry SOB who would go off at any minute. Like Haley.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I think Kevin Kolb has become one of the most overrated potential trade commodities ever. Why would a team trade a 1st for this guy?

Kolbs career stats (with a talented eagles team)

11 TDs 14 INTs, 2,082 passing yards, 60 pct, 73.2 qb rating.

Id rather trade a 3rd for Hoyer than a 1st for proven mediocre Kolb.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Have you ever seen Brodie Croyle play? Of couse Cassel is better than him.



It means the way to beat the Chiefs is to shutdown their running game and force Matt Cassel to beat you.

Point missed.

The game in San Diego wasn't bad. It was historically bad.

There a few more explicit examples of how easy it is to determine an individual's comtribution to a unit.

Ofcourse, since you use a week one game as proof does say alot.

 

[Triumph]

Point missed.

The game in San Diego wasn't bad. It was historically bad.

There a few more explicit examples of how easy it is to determine an individual's comtribution to a unit.

Ofcourse, since you use a week one game as proof does say alot.

Croyle is historically bad.

Your argument is that Cassel is better than Croyle. No kidding.

 

[zipster9]

I don't think Hoyer would like to stay a backup for ever, i am pretty sure he wants to move on and prove he is a worthy Quarterback. The Patriots got Mallet in order to get something for trading Hoyer.
If Tom is around for the next few years, Hoyer is playing most likely his last year for the Patriots, because he wants the big job too.

Sorry. I dont see Hoyer as a starting QB for any NFL team. He has 0.5yrs of true experience.

I'll be happy if we get a 5th or 6th rounder...