What Branch is looking for.

[Willie55]

Who cares? As I said before, and you completely ignored, Tom Brady spreads the ball to something like 12 players.

I didn't ignore it, but it shows that he turtles after making the catch.

 

[Miguel]

it's unfair to criticize Branch for setting his price that high - that's how negotiations work.

IMO, it is a fair criticism. Branch is not even close to being one of the league's best receivers and yet his contract request is so far-fetched that looking at it would be a waste of Scott Pioli's time.

ALSO: It seems to me that people are having a problem separating Branch from his AGENT, who would be responsible for this demand in the first place.

The agent works for Branch. Branch does not work for the agent. You are presuming that Branch does not know what his agent is doing in his behalf. I happen to think that he does.

 

[Miguel]

I think there was a football outsiders analysis one time that showed that Branch had the best hands among WR's in the league, or something to that effect. I know his numbers aren't spectacular, but that is more because Tom Brady spreads the ball to everyone and doesn't target any specific player. I have to respectfully disagree that players like Reggie Wayne are better than Branch. He's in a pass happy offense, and had a great year when they tightened the defensive rules, but I wouldn't do a Branch for Wayne trade straight up.

FWIW - Branch was thrown to more times last year than was Wayne and Wayne still had better numbers.

 

[rtunstal]

Comparing the Receivers

The NFL's top 10 receivers in terms of overall yardage over the last five seasons:
Player Current team Games Rec. Yards TDs
Torry Holt St. Louis 80 465 7,368 39
Marvin Harrison Indianapolis 79 534 7,044 65
Terrell Owens Eagles 73 447 6,465 65
Randy Moss Oakland 77 425 6,416 62
Joe Horn New Orleans 79 437 6,289 45
Rod Smith Denver 78 455 5,961 34
Isaac Bruce St. Louis 79 388 5,925 33
Jimmy Smith Jacksonville 75 411 5,590 33
Derrick Mason Baltimore 77 406 5,506 34
Eric Moulds Buffalo 77 413 5,345 26

This goes to show you that 8M a year is out of the question. he should be happy getting between 5m-6.5m a yrar an love it.

 

[maverick4]

OK I reluctantly submit!
It's surprising how quickly people can turn on one of our key guys.
I wonder how you'll all react if Branch re-ups with us for 4 years.

.

 

[Willie55]

OK I reluctantly submit!
It's surprising how quickly people can turn on one of our key guys.
I wonder how you'll all react if Branch re-ups with us for 4 years.

.

It has nothing to do with turning on him, but has everything to do with his outrageous demands. If he was more reasonable people would be singing a different tune.

 

[BelichickFan]

I wonder how you'll all react if Branch re-ups with us for 4 years.

I'll be happy - but he'll never be "Deion" again to me.

 

[rtunstal]

It has nothing to do with turning on him, but has everything to do with his outrageous demands. If he was more reasonable people would be singing a different tune.

:agree: He needs to come down on his demands

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I don't think people are pretending he doesn't deserve a nice contract extension, I just think people are pissed at how far beyond reality he and his agent are rating his value and how stubborn he is being with his stance.

If the Pats were offering $5 million a year and Branch was holding out for $6 million a year, I think people would be pushing for the Pats to make up the difference and get him in camp. Branch, however, is demanding a ridiculous contract and he's simply not worth it, no matter how much we spread the ball around.

 

[Miguel]

This is a misleading argument, because this is how negotiations work. The front office low-balls, the player asks for the sky, and an agreement is made in the middle.

Those 3 receivers (TO, Moss, etc) actually SIGNED those deals, meaning they were probably asking for much more than that, and the actual deal was less than their asking number.

It's unfair to criticize Branch for setting his price that high - that's how negotiations work.

I will just point out that the Patriots would have made Branch the 17th highest paid receiver in terms of APY while taking on Branch's 2006 injury risk and setting Branch up to be a free agent after the 2010 season. While I understand and agree with Branch for turning down the deal, the Patriots' offer was a very good one for a low-ball offer, IMO.

Branch's offer was truly asking for the sky.

 

[maverick4]

I don't think people are pretending he doesn't deserve a nice contract extension, I just think people are pissed at how far beyond reality he and his agent are rating his value and how stubborn he is being with his stance.

If the Pats were offering $5 million a year and Branch was holding out for $6 million a year, I think people would be pushing for the Pats to make up the difference and get him in camp. Branch, however, is demanding a ridiculous contract and he's simply not worth it, no matter how much we spread the ball around.

Then get pissed at his agent!

I honestly believe most players leave most of the negotiating up to their agents, due to misplaced trust.

If you have a beef with Branch's demands, hate his agent, not the player.

.

 

[Slagathor]

This is a misleading argument, because this is how negotiations work. The front office low-balls, the player asks for the sky, and an agreement is made in the middle.

Those 3 receivers (TO, Moss, etc) actually SIGNED those deals, meaning they were probably asking for much more than that, and the actual deal was less than their asking number.

It's unfair to criticize Branch for setting his price that high - that's how negotiations work.

ALSO: It seems to me that people are having a problem separating Branch from his AGENT, who would be responsible for this demand in the first place.

.

I think that statement is inaccurate.

TO, Moss and Harrison got deals based upon the market value for them being "without argument" one of the top 5 receivers in the league.

The market had been established and I don't recall any furor in Moss's and Harrison's case regarding the deal. The Colts and Vikings pretty gladly signed them to deals they were looking for.

The problem here is Branch is positioning himself for a salary of a top 10 receiver, which he is not.

I don't recall anyone questioning whether Seymour was worth the money he was looking for.

Seymour and his agent never said "The top DL makes $8mil so i want $14mil."

He just asked to be paid what he was, which is one of the top 3 DL's in the league.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Do agents convince players they are worth more than they really are? Of course.

However, there is no way a player that is willing to sit out the majority of the season doesn't understand what's going on and is blindly trusting his agent.

Ben Watson fired his agent when he refused to negotiate a 6 year deal. Branch is telling people he is dead serious about sitting out the season. He knows what he's doing. I'm never going to think Branch is just a poor victim being controlled by his agent.

 

[Miguel]

It has nothing to do with turning on him, but has everything to do with his outrageous demands. If he was more reasonable people would be singing a different tune.

Bingo.

I have a well-deserved reputation for backing the players when it comes to their salary demands. I believe that players should get what they are worth.

IMO, Branch is not worth what he is asking for.
He is not giving the Patriots any discount for them taking on his 2006 injury risk.
He is not giving the Patriots any discount for them being a good team.

This is a business. I do not "turn on a player" for how they operate their business even when I disagree with their methods.

Personally, I could not think of a more stupid way of handling Branch's extension than the way Branch and his agent have chosen to do so. But's that is for another thread when I have the time to fully give my opinion.

 

[PatsSox363804]

OK I reluctantly submit!
It's surprising how quickly people can turn on one of our key guys.
I wonder how you'll all react if Branch re-ups with us for 4 years.

.

Wait a minute here. Are you actually suggesting that because we don't feel that Branch is worth the fourth best contract EVER for a wide receiver that we are "turning" on him? That's absurd. We all want Deion there but he is not Brady, he is not Seymour, he is not worth that much money. The offer the PAts gave him would put him around 17th highest paid in the league, which is RIGHT WHERE HE IS talent wise. That tells you that if his agent came back with a reasonable bump in salary to the Pats offer they would probably come to an agreement where Deion would make around top ten money, in other words more than he's worth but consider it a bonus for what he's done to win titles.

 

[tailgater]

On one hand, I've read that there's been no contact between agent and team since before camp opened. On the other, there is this rumor that he wants 9M per / 12M+ up front. Which is it?

Fans reactions seem extreme to me. I think the Pats are in the right, and have been the professionals in this little drama. Hate branch? Not.

I have no beef with Branch if he gets in before the first game. After that I begin to lose respect for him. I do think this is his agents fault, but if he's dumb enough to start losing game checks, it's all on him.

 

[Slagathor]

Do agents convince players they are worth more than they really are? Of course.

However, there is no way a player that is willing to sit out the majority of the season doesn't understand what's going on and is blindly trusting his agent.

Ben Watson fired his agent when he refused to negotiate a 6 year deal. Branch is telling people he is dead serious about sitting out the season. He knows what he's doing. I'm never going to think Branch is just a poor victim being controlled by his agent.

I think the biggest problem is fiscal irresponsibility around the rest of the league.

Branch knows if he hits the FA market in a year, someone like Houston, Detroit or New Orleans will WAY overpay him.

The Pats are privy to this also and in their case they just want to be sure that they don't get 6 games from Branch then lose him uncompensated.

 

[Pats726]

Bingo.

I have a well-deserved reputation for backing the players when it comes to their salary demands. I believe that players should get what they are worth.

IMO, Branch is not worth what he is asking for.
He is not giving the Patriots any discount for them taking on his 2006 injury risk.
He is not giving the Patriots any discount for them being a good team.

This is a business. I do not "turn on a player" for how they operate their business even when I disagree with their methods.

Personally, I could not think of a more stupid way of handling Branch's extension than the way Branch and his agent have chosen to do so. But's that is for another thread when I have the time to fully give my opinion.

Miguel...you are so right on this...and that is where the total unreasonableness is...and WHY the fans are so outraged!! I hope to see your words on the waY they have handled this. TOTALLY poor....and as PR?? Even worse..a total disaster!! It makes DB out as totally greedy and not all that smart.

 

[JoeSixPat]

My Prediction:

While Branch is playing the only card he has right now (a threat to hold out until Game 10) in the end there will be no contract agreement this season.

Branch will blink and end his holdout just before Game 1, pushing the holdout as far as makes logical sense (holding out into the season ultimately begins to hurt his value in terms of team attitude and his need for receptions going into free agency.)

I suppose Branch might also want to show a good faith move in the hopes the team won't franchise him next year to make a point for others approaching free agency.

By ending his holdout at the last minute however Branch will knowingly put BB in an awkward situation, with very little practice time remaining leading up to Game 1, Branch will sit out the first game as a coaches decision.

BB will make sure he expresses the principal of not playing a guy who hasn't practiced, and he may even want to make a discipline point by sitting Branch initially, but in terms of public perception, Branch can maintain he was willing and available for Game 1, perhaps even diverting some fan resentment to BB whom they know could have chosen to put Branch on the field.

Don't accuse me of not making a detailed prediction... all that just seems to play out logicially to me, especially from the Public Relations perspective both Branch, his agent, and the team will ultimately find themselves in.

Now let's see if I'm right.

 

[lobster]

Would the Pat's have to waste a roster spot for Branch if he never shows up? The Pat's would no doubt like to put him on some kind of reserve list and give his spot on the active roster to someone who wants to play.