What Bill Belichick did to the Vikings...

[JackBauer]

Agree with this but many will act like BB will pull a Gronkt-ype WR out of his ass tonight.

And some will whine no matter what the Patriots do. C'est la vie.

 

[yukon cornelius]

If this draft class was so weak, then accumulating more picks in the later rounds is a very poor strategy because if impact players are few and far between in this class, it would have been more prudent to try to get those players even if it meant reaching for them.

this years class is far from weak.....it simply is not top heavy

there's 2nd round talent spread throughout 2-4....it is a deep draft, simply not top heavy

 

[belichick010405]

this years class is far from weak.....it simply is not top heavy

there's 2nd round talent spread throughout 2-4....it is a deep draft, simply not top heavy

It is a foundation draft.....That is what a lot of NFL scouting services have called it.

 

[condon84]

So, what you're saying is that consistently good teams typically have good QBs?

Hmm...

Our defense has been awful the past 4 years, and it's not like we've got a bruising running game that beats teams up. Who makes our team go?

Give credit where credit is due. Brady has been the key to our overall team's success and has overcome a lot of bad drafts Bill has had the past 6 years.

 

[JackBauer]

Our defense has been awful the past 4 years, and it's not like we've got a bruising running game that beats teams up. Who makes our team go?

Give credit where credit is due. Brady has been the key to our overall team's success and has overcome a lot of bad drafts Bill has had the past 6 years.

I don't think awful applies entirely to the past four years, but it certainly hasn't been the strength of the team, granted.

Also: I agree 2006-09 was a poor drafting stretch that factors into the above.

Clearly Brady has been key to the team's success. But that's not something unique to the Patriots, and I daresay would apply to practically any team able to sustain the degree of success the Patriots have over the past decade plus.

 

[belichick010405]

Our defense has been awful the past 4 years, and it's not like we've got a bruising running game that beats teams up. Who makes our team go?

Give credit where credit is due. Brady has been the key to our overall team's success and has overcome a lot of bad drafts Bill has had the past 6 years.

Condon - the Patriots have been a top 5 drafter in the last three years and this teams' defense was a top 10 defense in the 2nd half of last year.

When the Pats are done with this draft, they will have added more depth than they should have had entering this draft.

I am looking forward to seeing what they do with the four picks that they got from the Vikings because right now is when this draft starts and not when Cordarelle Patterson was drafted.

 

[condon84]

this years class is far from weak.....it simply is not top heavy

there's 2nd round talent spread throughout 2-4....it is a deep draft, simply not top heavy

I was replying to the poster who reasoned why we traded back due to this class being weak. To me, that logic doesn't make sense.

Even if we get some solid depth players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, how much of an impact are they going to have to put us over the hump to beat elite teams? Brady has maybe 3 (optimistic) great years left. We're so close to winning a SB. An extra stop on defense, a sack, an INT, a faster WR who can go and get the ball for those crucial receptions, would probably get us over the hump. We need an impact player.

 

[belichick010405]

I was replying to the poster who reasoned why we traded back due to this class being weak. To me, that logic doesn't make sense.

Even if we get some solid depth players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, how much of an impact are they going to have to put us over the hump to beat elite teams? Brady has maybe 3 (optimistic) great years left. We're so close to winning a SB. An extra stop on defense, a sack, an INT, a faster WR who can go and get the ball for those crucial receptions, would probably get us over the hump. We need an impact player.

Condon - this is not an impact draft. This is a foundation draft with good value in the middle rounds who can provide important roles for this team. If you didn't realize that when three of the first five picks were offensive tackles then I don't know what to tell you. Ok?

 

[condon84]

I don't think awful applies entirely to the past four years, but it certainly hasn't been the strength of the team, granted.

Also: I agree 2006-09 was a poor drafting stretch that factors into the above.

Clearly Brady has been key to the team's success. But that's not something unique to the Patriots, and I daresay would apply to practically any team able to sustain the degree of success the Patriots have over the past decade plus.

Clearly you need an great QB to win SBs, but the common theme of past SB winning teams, aside from getting great QB play, was great draft classes on that year or year before.

 

[JackBauer]

Clearly you need an great QB to win SBs, but the common theme of past SB winning teams, aside from getting great QB play, was great draft classes on that year or year before.

Well we've had two good drafts in a row. Keep that going today and...fingers crossed.

 

[bagwell368]

Like I said in the other thread, on paper it's a great value for us but for this particular case you don't know it's a steal for us until we see how this draft class plays out and it proves that the mid round players are worth giving up a chance to get someone at 29.

There's always the possibility that Minny nabbed one of the great players still available at 29 and by the time we pick in the late 2nd round there's a severe dropoff in performance, in which case they'd have robbed us. You can't evaluate these things until they play out.

Long term the average 2nd rounder gives 70% of the value of the average 1st rounder. At 40% of the cost.

This draft is weak in value of picks from 15-35 - they grade out to 2nd rounders. But the rest of the 2nd's grade out as 2nd's and a decent amount of the 3rd's in this draft grade as 2nd's.

Minny nabbed a player we couldn't possibly have interest in.

 

[condon84]

Condon - this is not an impact draft. This is a foundation draft with good value in the middle rounds who can provide important roles for this team. If you didn't realize that when three of the first five picks were offensive tackles then I don't know what to tell you. Ok?

I'm not sure I agree with the logic that because 3 of the first 5 picks were OT then this class is bereft of impact players.

 

[condon84]

Well we've had two good drafts in a row. Keep that going today and...fingers crossed.

Agreed. We are so close man. An impact player, just one, this year, should finally get us over the hump.

 

[Off The Grid]

Dude.

The Vikings's 1st Round was HISTORICALLY Hideous:

1 ~ DT Sharrif Floyd ~ VASTLY OverRated. Day 3 Pick.

2 ~ CB Xaviar Rhodes ~ Solid Corner, but OverRated. Day 2 Pick.

3 ~ SE Cord Patterson ~ Psycho. Lottery Ticket best Picked in Round 4.

Best left to ANOTHER Team, in fact..

...and they traded us a MINT for'm.

They could've built a DYNASTY with those 6...PICKS. :snob:

OTG. Who would you have taken with those 3 picks instead?

I think this will be valuable to look at in hindsight.

In other words, you want me to Go On The Record so you can hang me, later!!

Show some respect for my Intelligence, won't you??

That's OK: I'll play along...

#23 ~ DR Bjoern Werner

#25 ~ DE Datone Jones

#29 ~ I wouldn't've offered that Trade in a thousand LifeTimes.

 

[Synovia]

Like I said in the other thread, on paper it's a great value for us but for this particular case you don't know it's a steal for us until we see how this draft class plays out and it proves that the mid round players are worth giving up a chance to get someone at 29.

This is absolutely the wrong way to think about it. Its results based analysis instead of process based.

All 4 picks could be busts, and the trade could still be a good one. It just means they picked the wrong guys.

If someone sells their '84 Ford Pinto for $10K, and then uses that $10K as a down payment for a $50K Fiat 500, it doesn't mean that selling the Pinto was a bad idea.

 

[AzorianPats]

If this draft class was so weak, then accumulating more picks in the later rounds is a very poor strategy because if impact players are few and far between in this class, it would have been more prudent to try to get those players even if it meant reaching for them.

Please tell me what impact players where available? Before the trade we had 5 picks available...did you want to blow all those on 1 player? Like the Vikings did for a WR that not even sure what play hes supposed to run some times? Its cute you fall in love with a player cuz you see their highlights on youtube, but thats not how real life professional teams work. The talent pool is the same this year from the late first to the end of the third..We now have 4 picks in that span..plus a 4th if we want to get cute and trade down, or move to next years draft which will be stronger.

 

[Synovia]

Aside from a handful of notables (Julio Jones, Randy Moss, etc), WRs (even elite ones) seem to take a couple years to get to full speed.


So, my opinion is that if you're not getting one of those guys with overwhelming talent, you're not getting a whole lot of value out of drafting one high, as by the time hes a real starter, you're a year off from paying him elite money.

Whereas, drafting a DE/OLB or a OL high, a lot of them play at a pretty close to elite level immediately, and you get the full value of the rookie contract.

 

[upstater1]

I like the trade, but this is really bill's fault in the first place giving up picks for ocho and fat albert.....if those deals didn't happen they could have made their selection yesterday.

So no more Corey Dillon's, Wes Welker's and Randy Moss's either!

 

[moosekill]

Clearly you need an great QB to win SBs, but the common theme of past SB winning teams, aside from getting great QB play, was great draft classes on that year or year before.

No you don't need a great QB to win SB's.

Just stop, you don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about in regards to this draft, and the NFL in general. Please stop..................

 

[Synovia]

No you don't need a great QB to win SB's.

Just stop, you don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about in regards to this draft, and the NFL in general. Please stop..................

The last team to win a superbowl with a QB that wasn't playing at an elite level in the playoffs was Indy in 2006 with Manning. And I'm willing to say that one is a strange case.


Prior to that, we're looking at the Ravens, and Dilfer actually played at a well above average level that year.