What are your opinions on Kyle Arrington?

[patchick]

Butler is used sparingly and Wilhite is All Pro at warming the pine. The way NE goes through DBs, they need someone who can play full time when called upon. Id like to see NE draft another CB with a high pick.

Butler may have been used sparingly against the Packers, when run defense was at a premium, but he played the majority of snaps in the 3 games before that. His snaps are wildly variable depending on the matchup.

As for Wilhite, he's a role player -- like any 5th CB.

Of course, I'd love to see even better players in their spots. But realistically, I think that's a pretty good 4th & 5th CB pair.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because right now he is a better player than both of them.

He's playing outside, not slot or nickel. Wilhite was playing nickel when Butler was starting, meaning he was playing in front of Arrington even then.

Your assertion doesn't line up with the known facts.

 

[mgteich]

I agree 100%

I think this term is causing some confusion in the thread, with several references to "if they bring him back" and "could get more money elsewhere." An ERFA is only a "free agent" in the sense that he has no contract in place for next year. It does NOT mean that he can shop his services around. The Patriots own his rights, and they can either negotiate a long-term deal or give him one year at minimum salary.

IMO, McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Butler, Wilhite projects to be an excellent CB group for next year. While I'd never rule out a draft pick at the position, I'd rank safety as a higher priority because Chung and Sergio Brown are the only safeties under contract for 2012.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He's playing outside, not slot or nickel. Wilhite was playing nickel when Butler was starting, meaning he was playing in front of Arrington even then.

Your assertion doesn't line up with the known facts.

That was 2009. This is 2010.

Arrington is the starting CB. Willhite has the slot. Butler was dime.

You don't go from a starting CB to a dime or even to a special teams JAG. C'mon, Deus.

 

[Deus Irae]

That was 2009. This is 2010.

Arrington is the starting CB. Willhite has the slot. Butler was dime.

You don't go from a starting CB to a dime or even to a special teams JAG. C'mon, Deus.

1.) It was 2010 where Butler was starting at RCB and Wilhite was the nickel, not 2009

2.) You seem to have ignored what I'd posted:

If not for Bodden's injury, Arrington wouldn't be seeing the field except on special teams.

Without the Bodden injury, Butler would not have been the starter at RCB at the beginning of the year. He'd either have been battling McCourty for time at LCB, or he'd have ended up battling Wilhite and Chung for time at the nickel and dime, with Arrington slotting in behind all those players. As I said, your assertion doesn't line up with the known facts.

 

[RobertWeathers]

1.) It was 2010 where Butler was starting at RCB and Wilhite was the nickel, not 2009

2.) You seem to have ignored what I'd posted:



Without the Bodden injury, Butler would not have been the starter at RCB at the beginning of the year. He'd either have been battling McCourty for time at LCB, or he'd have ended up battling Wilhite and Chung for time at the nickel and dime, with Arrington slotting in behind all those players. As I said, your assertion doesn't line up with the known facts.

I ignored it because it doesn't make any realistic sense.

-When Bodden went down, Butler was given a shot- he blew it.
-When he underperformed, Butler was given a shot at nickel- he blew it. In comes Willhite.
-Willhite has also been given an opportunity to win a starting CB role, Arrington beat him out.

The pecking order seems pretty clear, no?

Your assertion is that Arrington would never have beat out Willhite or Butler if Bodden stayed healthy. The fact that Bodden went down proves that Arrington has outperformed both Willhite and Butler.

I think you are over-complicating it.

 

[WelshPat]

I don't know why but I just have a feeling that Bodden won't be on the team next season.

 

[Kid~Brady]

I don't know why but I just have a feeling that Bodden won't be on the team next season.

stoppit meanie!

 

[Deus Irae]

I ignored it because it doesn't make any realistic sense.

-When Bodden went down, Butler was given a shot- he blew it.
-When he underperformed, Butler was given a shot at nickel- he blew it. In comes Willhite.
-Willhite has also been given an opportunity to win a starting CB role, Arrington beat him out.

The pecking order seems pretty clear, no?

No... You keep ignoring the difference between outside CB and slot/nickel, as well as the domino effect triggered by the Bodden injury.

Your assertion is that Arrington would never have beat out Willhite or Butler if Bodden stayed healthy. The fact that Bodden went down proves that Arrington has outperformed both Willhite and Butler.

No, it doesn't. It proves only that Bodden went down.

I think you are over-complicating it.

You're missing some obvious points. That's not me over-complicating things.

 

[furley]

Do you really think that starters are annointed and not subject to competing for their jobs during the off-season, camp and season?

No. I don't believe that Belichick would just anoint an unproven player to be a starter, nor did I say that. But, I believe that McCourty has earn the right to believe that he's the New England Patriots' starting left corner back this off-season. He has been the starting left corner back all of the 2010 pre-season and through fourteen games, thus far this season. I believe he has played the majority of his snaps.

I think the only rookie corner back that could make a similar claim is Kareem Jackson (he didn't start two pre-season games).

I don't know McCourty personally, but from what you read or hear about his character, you probably don't need to tell him not to rest on his laurels.

In the case of Bodden, sure, he must prove on the field to those that matter that he wants to take back the other starting corner back position. Again, if you think I think otherwise. Then you've misread me.



I wrote, "In accordance to Rotoworld, Arrington will be an "Exclusive Rights Free Agent." Regardless, in your mind, has he shown enough this season to be a returning starter next season ahead of Butler. Or should Belichick make corner back opposite McCourty an open competition.

In my opinion, I would like to see somebody beat out Arrington. I wonder, has Arrington played better than Butler or has Butler simply played worst. I want to give Butler another chance, though.

When you're ranked statistically as one of the lower tier secondaries in the league. Blame goes all around.

And what to do with Bodden. Do you move McCourty over to right corner back? Or do you decide on a right corner back and Bodden is the backup to McCourty at left corner back going forward."

 

[strngplyr]

I don't know why but I just have a feeling that Bodden won't be on the team next season.

Bodden signed a 5 year deal, and even if he's only average, Butler and Arrington combined make him look like Revis.

 

[Keegs]

arrington is perfect for #3 cb behind mccourty and bodden. He can compete for the #2 spot with bodden over the next couple years. I think if butler proves that he has something in him then we may not need arrington or vice versa.

this............

 

[RobertWeathers]

No... You keep ignoring the difference between outside CB and slot/nickel, as well as the domino effect triggered by the Bodden injury.

I'm well aware of the differences b/t/w the positions and I understand that your assertion is that Arrington would not have beaten out Butler and Willhite for slot/nickel DB. I Just don't agree with you. My contention is that Arrington would have emerged and played slot db, nickel, dime, etc because is a solid DB.

You're missing some obvious points. That's not me over-complicating things.

Deus, I'll humor you. Your points are 100% accurate and factual- in late Aug of 2010. Since then, Arrington has outplayed every DB except McCourty. We know this.

 

[JMarr]

Which ain't saying all that much at all. A lot can happen between now and next season, so it's a little early to be thinking about the depth chart. Although you have to think that McCourty and Bodden are the 2011 starters unless Bodden's injury doesn't heal 100%.

People love Arrignton because, after McCourty, he's been the most pleasant surprise on D this year, stepping in to solidly fill a void we desperately needed filled. For a guy who came out of nowhere, his coverage skills have been impressive.

But he's nowhere near the complete or talented CB that Bodden is. He's been less than impressive in run support and taking angles to the ball. There were a couple of plays against GB were he pulled up when the ballcarrier looked like he was being tackled, only to see the guy slip the tackle and pick up a few extra yards. There's no way that any coach would be happy seeing that on film.

Hopefully Butler just keeps his nose to the grindstone, Wilhite starts to get it, and we have a healthy competition for the #3 next season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Which ain't saying all that much at all. A lot can happen between now and next season, so it's a little early to be thinking about the depth chart. Although you have to think that McCourty and Bodden are the 2011 starters unless Bodden's injury doesn't heal 100%.

People love Arrignton because, after McCourty, he's been the most pleasant surprise on D this year, stepping in to solidly fill a void we desperately needed filled. For a guy who came out of nowhere, his coverage skills have been impressive.

But he's nowhere near the complete or talented CB that Bodden is. He's been less than impressive in run support and taking angles to the ball. There were a couple of plays against GB were he pulled up when the ballcarrier looked like he was being tackled, only to see the guy slip the tackle and pick up a few extra yards. There's no way that any coach would be happy seeing that on film.

Hopefully Butler just keeps his nose to the grindstone, Wilhite starts to get it, and we have a healthy competition for the #3 next season.

Yep. We can all agree that Bodden > Arrington.

 

[Triumph]

Butler may have been used sparingly against the Packers, when run defense was at a premium, but he played the majority of snaps in the 3 games before that. His snaps are wildly variable depending on the matchup.

As for Wilhite, he's a role player -- like any 5th CB.

Of course, I'd love to see even better players in their spots. But realistically, I think that's a pretty good 4th & 5th CB pair.

I think both are bad. I would not be shocked in the least to see Wilhite cut.

The Pats would be screwed if Mcourty didnt pan out. Pray that he stays healthy.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I think this term is causing some confusion in the thread, with several references to "if they bring him back" and "could get more money elsewhere." An ERFA is only a "free agent" in the sense that he has no contract in place for next year. It does NOT mean that he can shop his services around. The Patriots own his rights, and they can either negotiate a long-term deal or give him one year at minimum salary.

IMO, McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Butler, Wilhite projects to be an excellent CB group for next year. While I'd never rule out a draft pick at the position, I'd rank safety as a higher priority because Chung and Sergio Brown are the only safeties under contract for 2012.

Exactly...only I think Arrington would possibly make a good free safety and maybe fill that need.

 

[furley]

I don't know why but I just have a feeling that Bodden won't be on the team next season.

I think he'll be a Patriot at least until the new CBA is in place. Most likely, Belichick will want to evaluate how he and McCourty play together. Conversely, I don't think Arrington is viewed as a long term solution at right corner back so this could allow for Bodden to have another opportunity in 2011.

He would enter the second year of a four-year contract. It's too early to cut ties with him unless New England is willing to take the salary cap hit of almost $6M.

Apparently, this information is unofficial...

Leigh Bodden

2011 Cap Hit - $5,507,280

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2010 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

According to the NFLPA salary database Bodden's salary for all 4 years of his contract is $3,900,000. ESPNBoston reported that "Free-agent cornerback Leigh Bodden reached a four-year, $22 million agreement to remain with the New England Patriots, a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Tuesday. The deal includes $10 million in guaranteed money and $14 million over the first two years of the deal, the source said." For the time being, I am presuming that Bodden received a $6 million signing bonus and that he can earn $100,000 each year in offseason workout money.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2010 Patriots Salary Cap Footnotes and Documentation Page

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm well aware of the differences b/t/w the positions and I understand that your assertion is that Arrington would not have beaten out Butler and Willhite for slot/nickel DB. I Just don't agree with you. My contention is that Arrington would have emerged and played slot db, nickel, dime, etc because is a solid DB.

If you were aware, you wouldn't have been making the lousy argument you were making.

Deus, I'll humor you. Your points are 100% accurate and factual- in late Aug of 2010. Since then, Arrington has outplayed every DB except McCourty. We know this.

Actually, we don't. Meriweather, Sanders and Chung are also DBs. They've all played better than Arrington.

You began this line of discussion by arguing against a point you apparently didn't grasp, since Arrington's not been playing the slot at all. You then argued a point that's clearly not correct, with your "2009, not 2010" line. You're now arguing another point that's clearly not correct, since Arrington has been the weakest link in the starting secondary. We know this.

Discussing this further would be a waste of time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If you were aware, you wouldn't have been making the lousy argument you were making.

Right- Unless the CB is 6'2" and 210, it's very possible for a CB to play nickel or slot. Quite frankly, with your statement, I'm now wondering if you know the difference and the shared attributes between the two positions.

Actually, we don't. Meriweather, Sanders and Chung are also DBs. They've all played better than Arrington.

Of course Chung has lined up vs slot receivers. Sanders and BW rarely.

You began this line of discussion by arguing against a point you apparently didn't grasp, since Arrington's not been playing the slot at all. You then argued a point that's clearly not correct, with your "2009, not 2010" line. You're now arguing another point that's clearly not correct, since Arrington has been the weakest link in the starting secondary. We know this.

Discussing this further would be a waste of time.

Don't discuss it, then. You are the one that said Arrington would be riding pine if Bodden played. I follow your logic. The problem with your logic and the chain of events that have transpired are different.