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What are the proudest achievements of the expresidents?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, May 9, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're all aware of Jimmy Carter's humanitarian contributions since leaving the presidency. Clinton, too, is doing quite a bit, and for several years has been extremely active in fighting worldwide AIDS:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/po/20070508/co_po/clintonfoundationbrokersdealsonhivdrugs

    What about the other presidents? Bush I did unite with Clinton to raise money for Katrina, but I don't think he's nearly the humanitarian of Clinton or Carter. Reagan, to my knowledge, did nothing, but he was suffering from Alzheimer's even while he was President. What do you think Bush II will do? Do you expect him to be a humanitarian?
  2. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    Oh give me a break...
  3. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I'm more aware of how bad he F*cked everything up when he was in office. Jimmy Carter was perhaps the worst president WE'VE EVER had {yeah, I said EVER}.

    Much of the our problems right now can be traced back to him. I don't care many houses he builds or what humanitarian crap he does, He'll NEVER get a pass from me for all the crap he did.

    Carter is the most undignified, shameful ex-president we've ever had too.

    As to the original question. No, probably not, most Republicans that leave office, understand that there time is past and they pass the torch of leadership on to others. Their job is to be a dignified elder statesmen, and that's what you get. None of this narcisistic do-gooder crap.
    Last edited: May 9, 2007
  4. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    There already is a cure (for many diseases)... but they will NEVER let the regular's in on it.

    Ever heard of population control????

    This bird flu thing is in the same vein...
    Last edited: May 9, 2007
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Carter did a number of good things, including facilitating the Camp David accords with established an American approach to MidEast affairs that served as a model right up through Clinton. He also made human rights a fundamental part of American foreign policy. He did a bad job on the economy, but while he's ranked low, he's certainly not considered the worst president by either historians or the general public. Even conservatives rank 9 other presidents lower than him, but they're probably a little less emotional and defensive than you:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents

    Ah, yes, the art of blaming others. Conservatives should learn to take some personal responsibility for the failure of their leaders, rather than always trying to blame people in the past. History is a continuous thing, so blame gets passed back and back and back, but it's only the current leader who has the opportunity to set things right, and that's where responsibility should lie.

    Ah, a fine defense of selfishness. Yeah, let's criticize those who leave office and continue to help people. Let's admire Reagan for leaving office and quickly flying to Japan for a $2 million speaking fee or Ford for all his dignified work in the area of Golf or Bush I for his dignified parachute jumps. You're response is a perfect example of the way some Republicans try to defect responsibility for their moral failures, but do you really think you're fooling anyone besides yourself?
  6. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Carter is a loser who sanctioned the fraudulent elections in Venezuella.
  7. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Your whole post is typical ARROGANT, self-righteous elitist drivel

    You're right, you're such a better human being that the rest of us. All the world's failure lie at the feet of the Republicans. You guys have all the answers. I'd love to actually debate you on this stuff, but YOU WON"T LISTEN, because you know already everything, and all your interested in is spewing crap about personal responsibility and lecturing other about OUR moral failures.
    Last edited: May 9, 2007
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Every president we have ever had has done some little thing we can point at and say it was good, Jimmy Carter was the worse President this country has ever had or probably ever will have, America can be thankful he isn't the president right now with the enemy we face today and we can be thankful he wasn't president when those planes slammed into the WTC on 9/11.

    As for Billy Blue Dress, he's nothing but a "Dirty Joke", the whole Attack On America was practiced and planned right here in his own country while he was busy "playing" and then trying to cover his a$s from all of his whacky bullsh!t. (White Trash)
    _____________________________________________________
    Do-Gooding, Jerking Your Knees, Wringing Your Hands, Loving Your Enemy, Giving Your Gun Up, Slobbering Over Evil People and Lack Of Common Sense will all get you and your children killed.

    :rocker:
  9. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Carter has promoted Democracy throughout the world. The Carter Center was built to promote human rights and stop any unnecessary human suffering. Now, if you oppose that, I guess you must oppose the war in Iraq. He hasn't always been successful, but has achieved some great results. Undignified? You are really confused, that would be the present state of disarray.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have a great deal of respect for Clinton and Carter's post presidency work. I find it hard to fault, and found your attack on their efforts as "narcissistic do gooder crap" arrogant and dishonest.

    I think that many conservatives have a philosophical belief that we're all in it for ourselves. That said, I don't think liberals have a corner on good deeds. Religious conservatives are often involved in such work, perhaps more so than liberals. But, the group I have an issue with is the corporate conservatives, who are often not religious, and tend to be quite selfish. I certainly put the Bush's in that camp.
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Carter is a gadfly who is trying to make up for his failures as President.

    Most Presidents are humble enough to step away from the spotlight folowwing the example of George Washington. Clinton and Carter are exceptions who can't resist drawing attention to themselves.

    BTW Patters care to guess how much Clinton is making each year in his role as a political celebrity?
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We can never know a person's true motives, but good deeds remain good deeds. Certainly if all Carter and Clinton longed for was the limelight, they could have hosted golf events like Ford did.

    Envious? Jealous? Which is it? (What did you think of Reagan's trip to Japan for $2 million immediately after leaving office?)
  13. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    It's just typical Patters rhetoric. This thread is nothing more than a transparent attempt of saying "look how wonderful democrat ex-Presdients are and look how eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-vil Republican ex-Presidents are..!!" It even has the typical ridiculous Wikipedia reference. All it needs is some good old fashioned holocaust denial references and it's the Patters trifecta.
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When QuiGon can't defend his point of view, he resorts to personal attacks. He seems to be resorting to personal attacks more and more these days.
  15. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Where that pot & kettle picture, RW...? I think we need you to post that again. Looks like Patters is getting just a little bit too full of himself, as usual.

    Don't blame me for the fact that you decided to quote holocaust deniers to support your points that nuking Japan wasn't necessary. That ain't a personal attack, that's merely a statement of fact. What's the matter...? Truth hurt...?
    Last edited: May 9, 2007
  16. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Promoted democracy, How-so, by turning a blind eye towards the danger we faced back in his day?

    I'll never forget this one statement he made directly after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979. He Said - "This action of the Soviets, has made a more dramatic change in my own opinion of what the Soviets’ ultimate goals are than anything they’ve done in the previous time I’ve been in office.”.

    WTF???????? Are you kidding me. How ignorant or blind to you have to be about the dangers of communism and it's history of MASS-MURDER on a large scale. It took and invasion for him to figure this out? I was 13 and I already knew it. Remember, this was said while the E. Germans were gunning down people climbing over the wall daily and just after Pseudo-Communist genocide in Cambodia... etc. etc.... Carter did not have a CLUE. A boy among men, and it emboldened many, including those we struggle against today.

    Ummmmmmm. Yes, being openly anti-Semitic is undignified. IMO, of course
    Last edited: May 9, 2007
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Yeah, but Carter got back at the Soviets... yes he sure did... after they invaded Afghanistan he... uh, well gee... oh yeah..!! He boycotted the Olympics..!! That sure showed them..!!
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, it least you're presenting the facts this time rather than wrongly implying that I'm a holocaust denier. Yes, like others, I have sometimes used a website I am not familiar with and that turned out to espouse a viewpoint I don't share. But, the article itself did neatly summarize all the quotes I had earlier referred to, such as those by Eisenhower, Nimitz, and others who said that it was not necessary to nuke Japan.
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, Reagan's brilliant Afghanistan move gave rise to the Taliban, bin Laden, and ultimately to 9/11. I wish the Soviets had won that war.
  20. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Well now we have a liberal blaming Reagan for 9/11. Clinton is completely without blame, but the guy who left office almost 13 full years before hand is to blame.

    Yeah, that makes sense :rolleyes:
  21. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Well maybe that should teach you a lesson to be more careful when going after references to support your ridiculous point of view. Though I doubt you'll learn any lesson, you're too stubborn and belligerent to ever admit to any sort of wrong doing.
  22. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Are you really that clueless?

    AQ can trace is origins back to the Muslim Brotherhood and Sayyid Qutb. An Egyptian author who was "radicalized" in the US in the late 40's-50's.

    The Taliban, perhaps you can make a better argument for (not much though), They are primarily ethnic Pashtuns that gained control after the failures and incessant infighting among the Mujahideen warlords, who successfully outsed the Soviets. Their failure to lead effectively can hardly be pinned on us. The Taliban (and their anti-modern ideology) filled the leadership void and rose to prominence primarily upon support from Pakistan (again hardly our fault).

    AQ (and bin Laden) simply sought refuge in Afghanistan after the Sudanese got tired of the pressure he brought to bare on them. They offered him to the Clinton (who took a pass), so he was kicked out, and when he could not return to Saudi Arabia, he sought refuge in Afghanistan.

    AQ (bin Laden) and the Taliban were almost always at odds during his stay there and in fact, at the time of 9/11. They were as fed up with him as the Sudanese were. This has recently come out, despite the apparent protection they gave him, which traces back to the Pashton doctrine that one NEVER betrays a guest. Anyhow, it was a marriage of connivence at best.

    Point being, they were NEVER linked like you imply. One did not led to the other, and as much as you want to make a linear connection, you cannot.

    But lets not lets facts get in the way, shall we :rolleyes:
    Last edited: May 9, 2007
  23. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    In all fairness now, GW has overseen the sprad of democracy in plenty of places during his terms. The Ukraine, Lebanon, Iraq, and Afghanistan to name a few, while freer elections have taken place in countless other countries, including places like Kuwait where women are now able to run for office, or even Saudi Arabia where they've held local elections for the first time. I think all US presidents have promoted democracy. Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, etc... I think they all deserve credit for that.
  24. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Ummmmmm, Of course you do. You are a socialist (at least you sometimes come accross that way) ;) .

    I wonder if you realize that socialism in theory and practice are different. In theory, libs love it. In practice (or the way it has been practiced), someone like you............ would end up in a mass grave.

    {..... and I'm not busting your stones here either, I'm serious. Don't feel bad though, someone like me would too :cool: }
    Last edited: May 9, 2007
  25. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I completely agree, you can never know one's motives. What's interesting though, is that you always seem to know the motives of the people you like, versus the people you don't.


    When are people going to realize that politicians are people, and people like money. How many cha-ching book deals have we seen in the last 5-10 years? How many lecture circuit checks have pols cashed in our lifetime? These suckers all make money. That they plaster their face for a good cause here and there is nice, but it doesn't change the fact they that are all rolling in the dough. All while you and I pay higher and higher taxes, cuz these losers want to send our money to Guam.
  26. Real World

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    Carter, along with the SAS, actually started the funding of the mooj in '79.
  27. Real World

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    You really need to learn your histroy. This is why I give you such a hard time. You're just waaaaaaaay to partisan for your own good. The US involvement (CIA) in Afghansitan actually started in 1979 in conjunction with the British SAS & MI6. Carter secretly signed Operation Cyclone before the Soviets actually invaded.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html

    Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.


    http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...ahadeen SAS timeline&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

    On April 4, 1979, former Prime Minister Bhutto was hanged, after the Supreme Court upheld the death sentence as passed by the Lahore High Court. The High Court had given him the death sentence on charges of the murder of the father of Ahmed Raza Kasuri, a dissident politician from Bhuto's Pakistan People's Party. Despite many clemency appeals from foreign leaders requesting Zia to commute Bhutto's death sentence, Zia dismissed the appeals as "trade union activity" and upheld the death sentence.
    During his rule, Zia had tried to maintain very close ties and help to rally the Muslim cause around the world. He worked vigorously with other Muslim states to stop hostilities between Iraq and Iran. He worked with the U.S as early as July of 1979 to start arming Pakistani and Afghani Mujahideen to fight against the Soviet-backed government in Afghanistan, a fact that has only somewhat recently come out as former CIA and NSA officials have jumped up to claim their credit for helping to tear down the Soviet Union. Robert Gates, former director of the CIA, professed to this in his memoirs titled From the Shadows. In an interview with the French Le Nouvel Observateur in 1998, former National Security Adviser to Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Brzezinski, said, "According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, Dec 24, 1979. But the reality, closely guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the President in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention." This is stunning, since the U.S. villified the Soviet Union for being a cold-hearted oppressive aggressor and Jimmy Carter scoffed at their "lies" when the Soviets claimed they were trying to fight against the secret involvement of foreign influences [read: the United States] in Afghanistan. When Brzezinski was asked if he regretted pulling off such a massive deception against the world, he replied, "Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, in substance: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire." Brzezinski caps off his amazing confession with a callous disregard for the consequences of aiding and abetting Islamic jihadists, "What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?" The interviewer, even in 1998 and being a member of the typically Islam-tolerant French media threw back, "Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated:Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today." Brzezinski angered at his interviewer's attempt to diminish his great accomplishment of thwarting Communism while also trying to hold him accountable for his actions, responded, "Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries."
    Brzezinski's ignorance of Islam and his errant comparison of it to Christianity set the stage for an onslaught from Islamic terrorism that has encompassed the world with fear, enslaved billions with its oppression, killed 3 million people, and is on an ever-growing path of increasing devastation . The U.S. not only manufactured a more lethal enemy than it eliminated by miscategorizing that enemy, Brzezinski and the others in the American government put the country and the world in far more danger. What's interesting here too is the hypocrisy of it all. The holier-than-thou Jimmy Carter boycotted the 1980 Olympics in protest of the Soviet Union's incursion, and set into motion an international anti-Soviet propaganda machine vilifying them as oppressive aggressors and a threat to world peace, when he himself was the instigator.
    In late December, 1979, six months or more after the beginning of the build up of U.S. and Pakistani-backed resistance, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Pakistan under General Zia was instrumental in fighting the Soviets. Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Special Service Group were actively involved in the conflict, and in cooperation with the CIA and the United States Army Special Forces, supported the armed struggle against the Soviets. It is speculated that United Kingdom's Special Air Service also played an unpublicized role during the war. In addition to the resources Pakistan gave to the Mujahideen, Pakistan was the essential conduit for foreign military aid to these Muslim factions. By the mid-80s, the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, and China began their support of the Islamic anti-Soviet fighters. Zia later began diverting Pakistani and US military aid and resources to the Muslim Kashmir terrorists in the late 1980s as the Soviet presence in Afghanistan started to diminish. The last Soviet soldiers left Afghanistan on February 15, 1989. Exact casualties of Afghanis are unknown. General estimates for all sides - the government, the rebels, and civilians - are around 1.3 million people. Only 14,453 of these deaths were Soviet soldiers, and many of those were from hepatitis and typhoid fever.
  28. Real World

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    Wow, that sure is some statement. Talk about a revealing set of words. I might need to remember this thread.

    Man, my barber is sounding so right. He always says:

    "liberalism breeds soclialism, and socialism is communism"
  29. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Soviet Union was a mess of a country and someday the Russians will see Gorbachev as a hero -- setting the stage for the mostly peaceful dismantling of that failed government. But, I do wish we had never allied ourselves with the enemies of the Soviets in Afghanistan. It should have remained their problem and, given their location, they were in a much better position to deal with it. While Carter may have played some role in Afghanistan, just as Kennedy (and even Eisenhower) played some role in Vietnam, I believe the big investments came after them.

    And, yes, Patriot in NY, I agree that Soviet "socialism" was a total failure, but there are many democratic socialist models that work well. Most of the European countries have more socialism than we have and in many of them people live longer and have fewer social ills caused by poverty.
  30. Real World

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    You are a complete partisan hack! FRAUDERS LIVES! :p

    When are you going to wake up and see that these clowns are ALL THE SAME. Carter signed a covert program into effect before the Soviets even invaded, but it's the other guys faults because they actually escalated the situation after the war intensified. Hmmm....fraud!

    Call a spade a spade Patters. You were, and are, clearly wrong here. Learn your histroy. ;)

    I still love you though bud. :D

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