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What Americans Want Re: Unions

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Things that make you go hmmmmm

    Doesn't quite jibe with what some of you have been saying over on the other thread, does it?


    Wisconsin Results:

    Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has become an instant conservative darling and national figure with his standoff against his state’s public worker unions. But a new poll suggests his no-compromise, union-busting approach is not playing well in the historically progressive state.

    The new poll shows that stance is wildly unpopular: Independent voters think state workers should be able to keep their collective bargaining rights if they agree to the cuts Walker wants, by a margin of 76-19; even Republicans are closely split, with 49 percent thinking the workers should keep their rights and 47 percent agreeing with Walker’s hard line (that’s within the poll’s +/-4 percent margin of error). Democrats--no surprise--side the workers keeping their rights by a 94-1 margin.


    Poll: Voters Oppose Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker in Union Standoff - Robert Schlesinger (usnews.com)


    US Results:


    Americans strongly oppose laws taking away the collective bargaining power of public employee unions, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll. The poll found 61% would oppose a law in their state similar to such a proposal in Wisconsin, compared with 33% who would favor such a law.

    Poll: Americans oppose weaker unions - USATODAY.com
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well if these pollsters are right and Zogby and Rasmussen are wrong Walker will lose the election however he ran promising to do what he is doing and the dems run away rather than debate the issue.


    Zogby International

    48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions - Rasmussen Reports




    Obama is backing away from speaking about the WI stunt by dems that tells me what his polls are saying.

    BTW where is the outrage on the left about the twitter death threats being directed at Walker, matter of fact where is the reporting on the threats?
  3. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    getting rid of collective bargaining rihts was part of his platform? (I actually am OK with that -- but I'm skeptical that he ran on it.)
  4. patsfan13

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    Yes he made taking on the union part of his campaign. Apparently there is a bill to make Wi a right to work state, the rules are such that since it isn't a spending billl they don't need the dems to show up and do the job they are being paid to do. I think they should move forward and pass the right to work bill ASAP.
  5. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    That's a different issue. Collective bargaining rights aren't the same as right to work.

    I'm skeptical that he included promises to get rid of collective bargaining rights as part of his platform.
  6. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    In fact he did, I found this site that lists changes to collective bargaining as promises:

    http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/promises/walk-o-meter/

    and this from his campaign website:

    http://www.scottwalker.org/sites/default/files/Education Packet_0.pdf

    "The Qualified Economic Offer (QEO), which helped hold down local school costs for more than 15 years, will be restored and tied to revenue caps to align each district’s expenses with their revenues. Mediation and arbitration changes will also be needed to ensure that local economic factors are considered along with other common sense factors when arbitrating teacher contracts. And we can save more than $68 million per year by allowing school districts to enroll in the state health care plan."
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Huh. Maybe it's just too early, but I couldn't find that here.

    Interestingly enough, I did find a promise to repeal the smoking ban in businesses.


    Um, "Mediation and arbitration changes will also be needed" does not necessarily translate into "screw your contract, I'm removing all collective bargaining right now."
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I don't see that in either one. (What you quoted isn't a promise to eliminate collective bargaining rights.)
  9. reflexblue

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    The Truth is this little Punk Never said he was going after collective bargaining during his campaign, Ever. If he did he wouldn't have been elected, what he did is a bait and switch.
  10. DarrylS

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    The right seems to be deluded into thinking that this is about unions, it is none of this.. it is a thinly veiled effort to try to destroy long time supporters of the Democratic Party.. behind the scenes the Koch's and big business are fueling this fire big time..

    Walker has already fired all of the security in the State House and contracted with Wackenhut, yes the same Wackenhut that had sex parties in the embassy in Afghanistan.. just imagine if any of the targets of the right had sex parties in an embassy, there would be a huge assault on that organization to defund them and run them into the ground.

    WI Gov. Scott Walker's budget fix bill also grants him the ability to sell off the state's power plants with no bids. The Kochs are probably hoping that Wisconsin legislators may pass the rest of the bill in hopes of saving collective bargaining. Guess what the Koch's already have an ad to hire staff for their takeover..

    Plant Manager Jobs - Power Plant/Operations/Maintenance - State of , Wisconsin
  11. PatsWSB47

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    You have a point and while I don't think he's completely motivated by it it does play a roll to one degree or another. The Koch's are fair game but so are the unions if you would apply similar standards. They both use money...large amounts of it to get their candidates elected or their agendas passed legislatively if collective bargaining fails. For Walker I think stripping away so much democratic campaign money is just an added bonus to his plan. As long as we're talking side points one thing that has always irked me about unions is that they force union dues and take a large part of them to support candidates that that the union wants. if I'm forced into a union in order to keep my job I don't think it's right that i should have to pay for someones campaign if I don' t want that person to be elected.

    In this case though I think Walker needs some kind of compromise.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  12. reflexblue

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    He fired the union security guards almost immediately, he was told that was over steeping his authority. He did it anyway and replaced them as you stated with Wackenhut people, the new head of security has a crimminal record. Now a judge has found that Walker did indeed over step his authority and has order the union guards to be reinstated with back pay.

    The $130-150 K for a plant manager is probably more than a public employee manager would make.

    The more i read about this guy walker the more ive come to the conclusion hes not the sharpest knife in the drawer. And showing signs that there may be a little bit of Meglomania going on with him.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  13. patsfan13

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    1 other aspect of Walker's proposal is a big driver for the Union here. Currently the States collects union dues from their employees and give it to the Union (who cycles it back to the dem party, after all 98%+ of union contributions go to dems), under the law that will be passed when the legislators return the state will stop collecting union dues from the workers for the union.


    Follow the money.
  14. DarrylS

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    Unfortunately you do not follow all of it, you select and choose what money you want to follow and turn a blind eye to the corporatists who fuel this controversy and who tend to benefit most..

    The Tea Party are stoolpigeons for big business and unfortunately cannot conceptualize the magnitude and scope of their involvement..

    Why would a union support a Republican Candidate????
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  15. patsfan13

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    The evillllll corporatist eh yes if we get all the jews aaaaahhhh corporatist they are the cause of all our problems.


    The taxpayers know the problem and they want a solution the taxpayers aren't the problem the government is and a lot of that is the $$$$$ going to the gold plated contracts that Union employees have (especially their pensions), the states are going bankrupt as we can see from these threads Government employees don't care at all as long as they get theirs.

    People like Christie and Walker are the first politicians in generations to have the guts to take on the all powerful government unions.

    Guess the Tea Party isn't such a joke anymore.
  16. DarrylS

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    The Tea Party is a tool of Corporate America, and are used for their dirty work.. cannot believe that all of the stuff cited so far, you cannot even begin to conceptualize any of this..

    They fueled and funded the hysteria druing the health care debate
    They are fueling the issues in Wisconsin, Indiana etc..

    Some day you will wake up and see how you all have been duped, none of this is about union, pensions or anything else it is about big business running our government for their best interest.. not yours.

    The Tea Party will soon realize how they are just stooges for the corporatists of america..
  17. reflexblue

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    The states are in this predicament because of capitalism gone mad. You can blame your heros on wall street for creating this mess. They knowingly sold toxic assets in the form of unsecured mortgages, when the housing market collapesed the states lost billions of dollars they had invested in pension funds etc.. Now that home values have plummeted so haven't tax revinues.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  18. DarrylS

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    My Jersey:

    Some of these "toxic" assets made their way into state pension funds which has resulted in devaluation.. but the unions are bad.
  19. reflexblue

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    I know thats part of what i was trying to say.
  20. patsfan13

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    Now check out who got the donations from Wall St in 2008, when it was time for bailouts. Check the congresspersons in particular.




    The Wall st mess merely speeded up the process the system as it is isn't sustainable. BTW who is causing the insolvency problems in all the other industrialized countries?
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  21. DarrylS

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    Pray tell. Who???
  22. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Betcha its that Evil war criminal G Soros.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  23. DarrylS

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    Guess who just set up a lobbying office a block away from the Wisconsin State Capitol??

    Give up..

    Koch Industries..

    keep repeating that this is about the Tea Party, not big business.. this is about the Tea Party, not big business.. did not work, someday the Tea Party will realize what they are being used for.. kind of like cannon fodder for the corporatists..
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  24. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    I dunno....who is causing it in all of those "right to work" states right here in America? Certainly can't blame the unions, can you?
  25. patsfan13

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  26. reflexblue

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    I forgot to address, in Europe it was the same Wall Street meltdown crisis that caused the problems. Economies are so intertwined today un like in the past, if something major happens everyone feels it.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  27. DarrylS

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    That proves this statement:confused::confused::confused:.. if they speeded up the process, then they share the blame..

    keep googling have to do better than Newsbusters.. not that they are biased or anything like that:confused::confused:

  28. The Brandon Five

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    There are two different things happening here:

    1. States that are right to work.
    2. States that do allow collective bargaining for public employees.

    There is some negative corellation, but weirdly enough there are states with both!

    Right to work states:
    Alabama
    Arizona
    Arkansas
    Florida
    Georgia
    Guam
    Idaho
    Iowa
    Kansas
    Louisiana
    Mississippi
    Nebraska
    Nevada
    North Carolina
    North Dakota
    Oklahoma
    South Carolina
    South Dakota
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Utah
    Virginia
    Wyoming

    States with collective bargaining for public employees:
    Alaska
    California
    Connecticut
    Delaware
    District of Columbia
    Florida
    Hawaii
    Illinois
    Iowa
    Maine
    Massachusetts
    Michigan
    Minnesota
    Montana
    Nebraska
    New Hampshire
    New Jersey
    New York
    Ohio
    Oregon
    Pennsylvania
    Rhode Island
    South Dakota
    Vermont
    Washington
    Wisconsin

    The states with both:

    Florida
    Iowa
    Nebraska
    South Dakota
  29. patsfan13

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    Out of control spending by government. All states need to cut spending and the excess number of government employees and rationalize their pension plan from the unsustainable plan we see now.


    Unions are one part of this problem.

    BTW I suspect you will not se any states where the government employees are not unionized the right to work laws are intended to keep people from losing their jobs when a shop becomes unionized. Workers are allow to have the freedom to join a union or not.

    In NJ I worked at a company that had employees looking to unionize, if they had you either joined the Union or lost your job. That isn't right.
  30. The Brandon Five

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    You stay classy, DNC.

    Democrat urges unions to 'get a little bloody when necessary' - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

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