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What Abe Lincoln *actually* said about desertion

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Feb 20, 2007.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Abraham Lincoln, most often cited as America's greatest president, has recently been paraphrased in terms of America's war efforts.

    Here is what Abe Lincoln *actually* said:

    "Must I shoot a simple-minded soldier-boy who deserts, while I must not touch a hair of a wily agitator who induces him to desert? This is none the less injurious when effected by getting a father, or brother, or friend, into a public meeting, and there working upon his feelings till he is persuaded to write the soldier-boy that he is fighting in a bad cause, for a wicked Administration of a contemptible Government, too weak to arrest and punish him if he shall desert.
    "I think that in such a case to silence the agitator and save the boy is not only constitutional, but withal a great mercy."

    See: http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20070219-102043-4553r.htm
     
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    *yawn*

    well, that's great... but there's no mention of hanging members of Congress?... are you sure?
     
  3. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Well, hold on. Let's take another look here... hm-m, what's this???

    These National Archives are all dusty and so forth. Besides, a certain former NSA kind of made it hard for the rest of us regular people to get at all the good stuff.

    :(


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  4. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Originally Posted by PressCoverage View Post
    *yawn*

    well, that's great... but there's no mention of hanging members of Congress?... are you sure?




    Oh, yeah, here it is. Right under our noses. Mr. Lincoln said:

    "I think that in such a case to silence the agitator and save the boy is not only constitutional, but withal a great mercy."

    Now, how to "silence the agitator... ?"

    I guess we have to use our own imagination as to best "silence the agitator(s)", eh.


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  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    so you're talking to yourself? ....

    let's wait and see if RW chimes in on that, or is that only reserved for certain people?
     
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Abraham Lincoln Was A Racist.

    Google It
     
  7. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    I report. You decide.

    The way things ought to be.

    Talent on loan from ...

    America's newspaper.


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  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    i have decided.... and it's that you're full of sh!t...

    anyhoo, HERE is what Honest Abe DID actually say:

    "Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so, whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after you have given him so much as you propose. If, today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, 'I see no probability of the British invading us' but he will say to you 'be silent; I see it, if you don't.' The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to Congress, was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons: Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This, our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us."

    Lincoln wrote these words while America was at war with Mexico, under the presidency of James Polk, and while Lincoln was a member of Congress. But Lincoln did more than talk about the fraud that had been used to launch that illegal and imperialistic war. He introduced a resolution demanding that Polk provide proof. Polk claimed to have launched that war only after American blood had been shed on American soil. Lincoln's resolution required Polk to identify the spot where that blood had been shed.

    "Let him answer fully, fairly, and candidly," Lincoln said of the wartime president. "Let him answer with facts and not with arguments. Let him attempt no evasion, no equivocation."

    When President Polk did not answer, Lincoln and John Quincy Adams sought a formal investigation of the president's pre-war intelligence claims, and of his use of secret funds to launch his fraudulent and illegal war. Under this pressure, Polk announced that he would not seek re-election. Lincoln, Adams, and their allies in Congress then passed a resolution honoring the service of Major General Zachary Taylor "in a war unnecessarily and unconstitutionally begun by the president of the United States."
     
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Ho hum. <yawn> You really know how to turn a phrase. :rolleyes:


    So, you're calling the Washington Times full of shirt, a liar, in other words.

    When you bring suit against the Times for misquoting Lincoln or anybody else, you're hysterics *might* begin to register on the Richter of credibility. As it stands the only one full of sh!t here is YOU.

    Gaffney made his point; he backed it with actual quotations from Abraham Lincoln, and he used those quotes to demonstrate that as long as there is a war between terrorists who have attacked the U.S. no less than a dozen times in 24 years, starting with the Iranian revolutionary guards taking the U.S. embassy in Tehran -- while America labored under the strain of uncle Jimmy Carter -- and the U.S., those in public office who weaken America's ability to prosecute that war are worthy of "being silenced":

    "This is none the less injurious when effected by getting a father, or brother, or friend, into a public meeting, and there working upon his feelings till he is persuaded to write the soldier-boy that he is fighting in a bad cause, for a wicked Administration of a contemptible Government, too weak to arrest and punish him if he shall desert.

    'I think that in such a case to silence the agitator and save the boy is not only constitutional, but withal a great mercy.'"

    ... a great mercy, indeed. Thank you, Abe Lincoln.


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    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    well, no... just you... you said, "i report, you decide"... that's what i decided...
     
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Oh, I see. If the rest of your life decisions follow the same pattern as this one, you are a pitiable being.


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  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    maybe so... but then, i'd rather be "pitiable" than an overtly "full of sh!t" God Squadder...
     
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh relgious bigotry is so much fun eh agenda boy.
     
  14. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    is that what you call it? ... interesting... i see it is bigotry towards religious hypocrisy...
     
  15. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    So some Washington Times hack inadvertently:rolleyes: altered a quote from Abe Lincoln to help persuade his audience that his position was correct and now we should just trust that he's gotten it right this time?

    AHHHHHHH..... no.
     
  16. Commander Shears

    Commander Shears Practice Squad Player

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    Relying on third party quotes to prove a point is fun!

    "I will say, then, that I am not nor have ever been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the black and white races---that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with White people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the White and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the White race."

    — Abraham Lincoln (4th Lincoln-Douglas debate, September 18th, 1858)
     
  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    No "maybe"s about it. You are pitiful. So full of yourself. Always leading with the insults. Always calling other posters names. Always baiting with the snide remarks. Then you go crying to your bud, Patters, about others. What a piece of work you are. Yeah, there's no hypocrisy in your family, since you took it all. You're the kind of weasel who pushes another kid in school to start a fight, and then you go slink off and laugh about it.

    You have NEVER made ONE SINGLE argument in ANYTHING you have every posted on this site that was not filled with ad hominem from beginning to end.

    Actually, you are less than pitiful. You are contemptible.


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  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That quote prompted me to read more on the subject. Based on what I read here --

    http://www.angelfire.com/my/abrahamlincoln/Debates.html --

    it's true that like most people of his era, Lincoln did not believe the races were equal, but it's also true he believed slavery was immoral and that blacks had rights under the Declaration of Independence.
     
  19. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    I just realized this thread contains NEMs last post.
     
  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's what I did and you blocked me
    :singing: :singing: :singing:
     

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