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WH drafts Order for Indefinite Guantanamo Detentions..

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting turn of events, as congress has pretty much shut down any possibility of closing Guantanamo, the White House is preparing to surrender and just go with indefinite detentions...

    Don't tell the Obama Derangement Syndrome(ODS) sufferers on the Left or right this inconvenient truth as Obama has no satisfactory option. Released prisoners who went into the ranks of the Taliban give the Right ammunition to tar Dems as weak and Obama can not unilaterally transfer prisoners to the states for trial. What is most galling is the ODS clowns on the Left or Right can offer no satisfactory alternative. At least the White House had the cajones to say the decision on their fate rests with them unless the new Congress takes up this issue, odds being nil.

    They should have some type of day in court, whether it be military or civilian to resolve their status.. what is the endgame for this action?? How will it ever get resolved... it is another drain on our military, their families and our budget. Maintaining island prisons and caring for their families is not economically feasible.

    White House Drafts Executive Order for Indefinite Detention | TPM LiveWire

    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  2. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    This was always the problem. Nice to see that the WH has stopped treating this as dismissively as they did when Bush was running the show.

    Theoretically, POWs are detained until the end of hostilities. I would think that the same would apply to unlawful enemy combatants but in the past we just shot them. There are not too many options here. The interesting question is whether there will ever be an "end to hostilities" when dealing with a conflict against a movement rather than a state or alliance or states. I think that is ultimately what makes their detention indefinite, so unless al-Qaeda sends some reps to Paris to negotiate a surrender it looks like they will be staying in Gitmo for the rest of their lives.
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My POV is that it is a convergence of factors, least of which is Congress not wanting to do anything else..

    What will it look like 10 or 20 years from now??

    My hope that there would have been some type of legal resolution for each of these detainees.. and resolve their cases in a court of law, whether it be military or civilian... are they prisoners of war??? Or are they terrorists??

    It seems like a slippery slope to call them POW's, as there has not been a declaration... what will we do with terrorists in the future, just lock them up indefinitely without any legal processes???
  4. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    Its amazing how this president is mimicking Bush on so many issues.
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not confident that his intent is satirical...
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    yet many Republicans don't recognize how far toward the right his stance on these matters has been
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Jug Ears called Bush up and asked him what he should do about Gitmo, Bush knew all along what those Soccer Playing Savages are capable of if they are turned loose.

    Our beautiful Poster Boy President is turning into a Hot Damn Neo Con.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  8. Real World

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    His stance isn't toward the right. His stance is simply the establishment status quo. Some of us in here made the point prior to the election that it didn't matter who won the presidency in 2008, because we weren't leaving Iraq, weren't leaving Afghanistan, and Gitmo wasn't ever going to be closed.
  9. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    [​IMG]
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Loons.
    President Jug Ears:

    Clinton gives his news conference.
    Bush still handles Gitmo and the Wars.
    Jug Ears goes golfing.

    :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  11. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    In theory ... we could load them into a capsule that we could parachute into the Pakistani tribal areas ... then it would be okay if we drone them ... right? In any case ... these guys are of no more value than the people that have replaced them ... we should just deposit them somewhere ... whatever.

    or we could reverse the Mariel and just dump them into Cuba ... I mean they are already there.
  12. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    In these cases the right and the status quo are the same.

    My point is that these are the kinds of things -- along with his positions and actions (and inaction) on a number of other issues -- that many people on the right seem to ignore when talking about how far left and how divisive he is. In fact, many people on the left are unhappy with him because he has been on the other side or in the center on so many matters.
  13. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    He's from the manchurian party.
  14. atomdomb

    atomdomb Rookie

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    He didn't need another option. Why can't people understand this? He only needed to make enough empty promises to get enough stupid people to vote for him. How many completely failed and broken promises is this now?
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Loons:
    Obama:
    he looked like what the loons wanted so they ran him, they voted for him, they won, they didn't even care if he could read or write, all they were interested in was having their own little poster boy so when it was over they could puff up their chests and tell each other how wonderful they were for supporting him.
    Now They Have Him (now we all have to live with it)

    :bricks:
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  16. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Any party responsible for letting a terrorist go free only to re-join a terrorist group would be criticized...and don't you think they should?

    I know we differ on this, but in my opinion, terrorists aren't human, they're animals.
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Keeping terrorist imprisoned is certainly NOT a conservative approach. As a matter of fact, it has nothing to do with left vs right.
  18. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Obama and Guantanamo: A chronology of his broken promise


    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The reality is, right now, will not be able to get anything through congress.. they have already prohibited it from happening..

    So did he break a promise, or face reality?? Another out of control spending congressional decision, it costs more to maintain a prison on secluded part of an island, a prison where you have to house their families as well.. on an island with whom you cannot even get food from.

    Congress Bars Transfers From Guantanamo Bay - WSJ.com

  20. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Most if not all campaign promises are based on little factual (classified) information. he faced reality is the bottom line on this one though it would be nice to see it gone as it's an ugly symbol for ugliness.
  21. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is ugly, and an even uglier mess.. should have been an endgame from day 1, to avoid it becoming a political football...
  22. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    i would parachute them into waziristan and have a drone land at the same time ... by accident of course.
  23. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In short Barako Jug Ears is just another run of the mill fast talking sh!t bum lying phony politician.
  24. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    sounds like an apt description of the election in 2004, and in 2000, etc....
  25. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I don't know what you're trying to say here.

    Obama has largely kept the status quo, and like it or not, his predecessor was a righty, and this approach is one many people who voted for Obama opposed and many people who voted against him favored.

    Thus, he has been further to the right than many of his supporters would prefer, and further to the left than many of his detractors claim.

    Not sure what you're disagreeing with here.
  26. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    They are angry enough to utter the word primary ... not a good thing for the party for sure.
  27. Real World

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    This is eroneous. By your logic, incarcerating terrorists, or enemy combatants, is a "righty" way of doing things simply because it was a "righty" (although many would argue that GW was anything but a "righty" in a plethora of ways) who was in power when such incarcerations took place. That's weak since the only "lefty" we've seen in power under the same circumstances, has done the same exact thing. So like someone in here mentioned, this isn't a righty or lefty policy. It is the simply the establishment status quo. Had Obama changed the existing policy, then we could attach the differing moves to one side and the other. Since he didn't, it's safe to assume that each party believes in this the same way. This isn't tax policy, or an ideology regarding military spending persay, where there is a long standing history of each party's views. The attacks that took place on 9/11 are unique in this respect. All we can go on is what each leader in power has done since they took place, and we're seeing that those views are one and the same.
  28. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    I'm with Chico on this ... your post above is very logical but Obama was elected mostly on emotion and opposition to the Bush way. The people who elected him may not care how logical the argument is ... they want what was promised.
  29. Real World

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    But isn't Chico saying that this is Bush's policy, and that Obama is being a "righty" here? How is this a "righty" policy, when the only lefty in office since the incarcerations took place, is doing the exact same thing? Forget what the people want. I'm not talking about what the people want. I'm talking about labeling this left and right. It's foolish to do so when we've had 1 republican president, and 1 democratic president since the the attacks took place, and each has sanctioned the same policy. To me, that means the policy is devoid of party. With tax policy persay, we know where each party has stood historically. We don't know the same with respect enemy combatants, since the issue is in it's infancy more or less.
  30. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    No, I don't think it is safe to assume that (see bold).

    You skipped over part of my last post: "...and this approach is one many people who voted for Obama opposed and many people who voted against him favored..."

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