We're leading in the division

[Ring 6]

Ok, seriously, this is a waste of time. This is my last post on the topic, because either you're incredibly dense or you're just being obstinate for its own sake.

My argument is, and has from the outset been, that we've done a crappy job of replacing our OLB production from 2001-2004. Given that that's the argument, why the hell would you use the 2001-2004 stats to argue that we've done a good job of replacing those players? We didn't replace 2001-2004 Willie McGinest with 2001-2004 Willie McGinest, did we?

Because MY argument has been the system is effective and singling out one part of a roster to criticize the system is wrong. To say that what I am arguing has to conform to what you want to discuss, and to limit the argument that the approach of the organization is correct or not to the timeframe that begins after the most successful run in NFL history is ridiculous.
I'm not arguing your argument, so I can understand why you don't get it.
Any arguemnt on the effectiveness of BBs approach that decides to start after 3 SB championships, yet holds the standard of winning SBs is foolish anyway.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually, you'd be foolish to go with the Patriots, in terms of "record of success in the playoffs" since the defensive rules changes post 2004. The Patriots are 5-3 in the playoffs during that stretch, have missed the playoffs once during that stretch, and have no Super Bowl wins. The Colts are 4-3 in the playoffs during that stretch, have been in the playoffs every year during that stretch, and have won a Super Bowl. The Colts also defeated the Patriots in a playoff matchup. The Patriots have not defeated the Colts in the playoffs in that time frame.

Patriots are 14-3 with 3 championships
Colts are 7-8 with 1.

Colts have 9 playoff seasons
1 with a SB win
3 with 1 win and out
5 first round losses

Patriots have 6 playoff seasons
3 with SB win'
1 with SB loss
1 with 1 win and AFCC game loss
1 with 1 with and divisional loss.

You tell me which is better

 

[bigfandan]

Umm, from memory
Pats, since Brady 14-3 2 SBs
Colts since
Manning 7-8 1 SB
Nice of you to conviently leave out 9-0 and 3 Lombardis...we did do that with the same system, right?

On one hand you say you have 15% of data (to discourage us), on other hand you make these strong assertions. Our defense has changed a lot from last season. How do you know it's the same system from superbowl years?

When we were winning, it was great players making big plays. Great players like MacGines, Colvin, Phiffer, Bruski, Harrison, Troy Brown, Samuel and list goes on and on. Not to mention Brady and Vinitari.

Remember Ty Law picking off Manning 3 times in AFCC, picking off Warner for TD to start off the SB? Brady bringing team to victory within last 42 seconds? Great players making great plays. That is what I remember.

Now you don't have the players (b/c of poor drafts and trades), you suffer, plain and simple. No scheme can overcome that.

 

[Ring 6]

On one hand you say you have 15% of data (to discourage us), on other hand you make these strong assertions. Our defense has changed a lot from last season. How do you know it's the same system from superbowl years?

When we were winning, it was great players making big plays. Great players flike MacGines, Colvin, Phiffer, Bruski, Harrison, Troy Brown, Samuel and list goes on and on. Not to mention Brady and Vinitari.

Remember Ty Law picking off Manning 3 times in AFCC, picking off Warner for TD to start off the SB? Brady bringing team to victory with last 42 seconds. Great players making great plays. That is what I remember.

15% of the data, is what we can see, or know, from our perspective, about personell decisions.
Saying it is the same system, is saying that it is Belichick and his approach. Whether he chooses to adjust alingment or playcalling is not my point. The system is the basic decision making priocess and approach.

 

[Patspsycho]

 

[ausbacker]

Patriots are 14-3 with 3 championships
Colts are 7-8 with 1.

Colts have 9 playoff seasons
1 with a SB win
3 with 1 win and out
5 first round losses

Patriots have 6 playoff seasons
3 with SB win'
1 with SB loss
1 with 1 win and AFCC game loss
1 with 1 with and divisional loss.

You tell me which is better

Historically the Patriots but more recently the Colts. Rather simple to be honest.

 

[Deus Irae]

Patriots are 14-3 with 3 championships
Colts are 7-8 with 1.

Colts have 9 playoff seasons
1 with a SB win
3 with 1 win and out
5 first round losses

Patriots have 6 playoff seasons
3 with SB win'
1 with SB loss
1 with 1 win and AFCC game loss
1 with 1 with and divisional loss.

You tell me which is better

Again, since the rules changes were made after the 2004 season, the Colts. The rules changes matter, whether you try to ignore them or not. Go take a look at the difference in overall defensive aggression by the Patriots from 2001-2004 and from 2005-2009. So, if the NFL goes back to the old defensive rules and Bruschi, Johnson, Vrabel and McGinest are all able to return and play as well as they did in 2001-2004, I'll be laughing at the Colts defense again.

Of course, the irony of that is that the linebackers who were starting for the Patriots in 2004 were Bruschi, Johnson, Vrabel and McGinest, none of whom were drafted by the Patriots during Belichick's head coaching tenure, and only one of whom was brought to New England by Belichick, yet you're giving all the credit to the Belichick system and pretty much ignoring the reality of all the pre-Belichick players.

You keep building up straw man after straw man. Nobody's claiming that the Patriots weren't the better team from 2001-2004, or that the Patriots' defensive system wasn't more successful than the Colts' defensive system during that time. But, to date, since the defensive changes post-2004, the Colts' system has been more successful than the Patriots system.

 

[bigfandan]

Historically the Patriots but more recently the Colts. Rather simple to be honest.

Not to mention, Colts won 6 of last 7 head to head. That is dominance.

 

[captain stone]

Patriots are 14-3 with 3 championships
Colts are 7-8 with 1.

Colts have 9 playoff seasons
1 with a SB win
3 with 1 win and out
5 first round losses

Patriots have 6 playoff seasons
3 with SB win'
1 with SB loss
1 with 1 win and AFCC game loss
1 with 1 with and divisional loss.

You tell me which is better

That was Then.

This is Now.

And Now Sux, and will continue to suck for the rest of the Belichick/Brady Error.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Patriots are 14-3 with 3 championships
Colts are 7-8 with 1.

Colts have 9 playoff seasons
1 with a SB win
3 with 1 win and out
5 first round losses

Patriots have 6 playoff seasons
3 with SB win'
1 with SB loss
1 with 1 win and AFCC game loss
1 with 1 with and divisional loss.

You tell me which is better

that was when the pats where the best team in the NFL and they knocked the colts out of the playoffs a few time if not they would have a few more rings

the pats are not the best team in football any more and what they did in the past will not get them any wins today